Is this as wrong as I think it is...?

tristar said:
i would have taken off the gadget if i thought no one was going to come and i was going home rather than leave it there stuck.

and as for gadgets, i would never use any gadget ever, never, i would look to my own short comings as a rider first, and as for vets using them i have no experience of this, but vets are not horse trainers, physios etc are not actually riding the horse in question they are treating it, so something may be lost in interpretation of their instructions to use gadgets to help recovery.

and it could be if the horses needing pessoa `treatment` were trained and ridden better in the first place they may not need to be put through such a process, and anyway there are other ways of improving spinal musculature

but well done op for at least thinking about helping some poor creature that can`t help itself
Click to expand...

How arrogantly insulting of vets skills. How naive. Post spinal surgery it is often necessary to help a horse muscle correctly even before it is ridden to enable it to become strong enough to carry a rider.

Maybe you have limited experience?
 
sport horse said:
While I do not condone what the OP saw, to widely condemn all training aids is rather short sighted. Vets recommend the use of a Pessoa/similar as part of regular rehab following spinal injuries, surgery etc. to rebuild muscle in the correct places. BUT always on the lunge not turned in a field!
Click to expand...

These gadgets are available to anyone who wishes to purchase them and can be used on any horse and that's why I dislike them. Many are probably being used incorrectly and are completely inappropriate for whatever the horse owner intentions are, better not to use them at all. Not sure my vet would recommend the use of these either as he too is in the barefoot, bit less, natural horsemanship brigade. In the wrong hands can do more damage than good and I bet they are used by the wrong hands far more than the right ones.
 
Well it comes as no surprise these gadgets are so popular and largely used by inexperienced hands to try and get a horse "into an outline" or "on the bit". I doubt many people know even what those terms mean anymore. The rise and rise of gadget sales is proof that riding is largely dead. All we have left are torture implements designed to ratchet and pulley horses into a definitive shape. Anyone who uses such things and leaves them on a horse unattended may as well be accused of bull-baiting - because it's as cruel as that without the charging bull.
 
sport horse said:
How arrogantly insulting of vets skills. How naive. Post spinal surgery it is often necessary to help a horse muscle correctly even before it is ridden to enable it to become strong enough to carry a rider.

Maybe you have limited experience?
Click to expand...

Vets are not trainers and when I was given the advice to use a Pessoa on my horse post KS surgery I explained to him exactly why a Pessoa could not do what they wanted to achieve half as well as I could using a head collar / bridle and two lunge lines and some raised poles .
They where amazed at my horses top line development and they where amazed because they are not horse trainers. I knew I could do what was needed without resorting to using a device that that trusses the horse up.
You can always tell in the hand if a horse has been in a Pessoa it can take years to turn them round .
 
WelshD said:
The 'tying in' of show ponies is pretty common but usually happens behind closed doors as people are understandably shocked by the practice

In this situation though I dont think for sure you can hand on heart say you know the full story
Click to expand...

Yes I remember seeing this a lot on show horses forty years ago I thought we had moved on .
 
oh sporthorse you are right, i have absolutely no experience of using pessoas or other gadgets.

and you are absolutely right again i am naive, i am a simple soul i listen to my horses above all else, their welfare comes first, i would never do anything i instinctively felt was wrong, and gadgets pessoas and all other methods such as rollkur are against every principal of true horsemanship.

and as for insulting vets, i could tell you a few tales that would make your hair stand on end, and then again i have used some of the best vets in the world and learned a lot from them and count them as true friends.

in time you may come to understand that there are people in the world who can think for themselves, who push the barriers and question conventional `therapies`. that is where progress comes from, and without feeling the need to insult other people, ha ha
 
tristar said:
oh sporthorse you are right, i have absolutely no experience of using pessoas or other gadgets.

and you are absolutely right again i am naive, i am a simple soul i listen to my horses above all else, their welfare comes first, i would never do anything i instinctively felt was wrong, and gadgets pessoas and all other methods such as rollkur are against every principal of true horsemanship.

and as for insulting vets, i could tell you a few tales that would make your hair stand on end, and then again i have used some of the best vets in the world and learned a lot from them and count them as true friends.

in time you may come to understand that there are people in the world who can think for themselves, who push the barriers and question conventional `therapies`. that is where progress comes from, and without feeling the need to insult other people, ha ha
Click to expand...

hear hear.... well said tristar...
 
Any person with a horse who blindly trusts vets or farriers or Saddlers or insert long list here will end in in trouble sooner or later .
 
I also suspect vets are dealing with a whole heap of people who aren't very experienced and wouldn't know where to start with working a horse correctly in hand, so with the Pessoa suggestion they do at least know what will be happening and it will work to an extent regardless of the hand on the end of the line.
 
ester said:
I also suspect vets are dealing with a whole heap of people who aren't very experienced and wouldn't know where to start with working a horse correctly in hand, so with the Pessoa suggestion they do at least know what will be happening and it will work to an extent regardless of the hand on the end of the line.
Click to expand...

Then they should refer owners to people who are experienced or at least suggest trainers that have re-habbed ks successfully without these gadgets. So many times I've seen then used in the wrong way and when I've said something the owner will quickly refer to "the vet said"... I despair.
 
Maybe they should but I'd suggest that having tried to find them those sort of trainers are not two a penny in many locations, and time to acquire he training yourself might not be on their side. Lots of things vets have to suggest for rehab are not fully satisfactory.
 
ester said:
Maybe they should but I'd suggest that having tried to find them those sort of trainers are not two a penny in many locations, and time to acquire he training yourself might not be on their side. Lots of things vets have to suggest for rehab are not fully satisfactory.
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from and I hope the vets are providing the training on how they want to see it used in rehab. It's a shame those sorts of trainers aren't two a penny. Not only because the resorting to gadgets (which is not always better than nothing) but because KS surgery may not have been necessary if the horse was gymnastically trained in the first place.

I'm not saying it's the case everywhere but a random snapshot in livery yards, shows, competition centres where I am and people I know indicates that the be all and end all of training a horse is "to get it on the bit" in any way possible, as quickly as possible - crank it, yank it, shove it, kick it.

Those horse-people of old are long gone it seems... probably hiding away trying to avoid seeing what's going on at the moment because it hurts to watch. I see that some people are starting to take a stand at competition level to sort this mess out (P. Hutton, H&H last week), I hope she has some success and people come out of the woodwork to help.
 
as Goldenstar says its not possible to always trust others, that is one of the great mysteries of horses why we have to learn so much ourselves in the end, and go where no one has gone before, and frighten ourselves to death nearly and push every barrier of our personal limitations when it comes to taking a stand for our horses, when our heart tells us something is`nt working or there is a kinder way, i have only found the brilliant people who care for my horses by going through some really bad experiences but finding the courage somehow to walk away from anything less than very good.

and as tallyho says about looking the other way, and probably even having to defend what you believe in, but great to hear Pammy Hutton is expressing an opinion, and perhaps her son who is competing, they are certainly getting exposure with star academy and i love the way she does her best to drag everyone up to her standards.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top