Is this fair? Opinions.

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Elvis

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There is a girl on my yard who never turns her horse out, she says the thought of it makes her feel sick. So the horse lives in 24/7, in a standard sized stable, he's 16.1hh. I have always either had my horses out 24/7 or in part of the time, my current horse who was living out 24/7 has injured himself badly and needs probably about a months box rest, his injury has only reassured the girl that keeping her horse in 24/7 is best. I'm fretting about how to keep my boy entertained even though he's settled well now and is quite enjoying himself. So is it fair for me to judge her for never turning out her horse, when he seems quite happy, even though he's only ridden once a day for an hour and doesn't have access to a walker or pen?
 
As a horseperson, it's your inalienable right to be judgmental about all sorts of things other horsepeople do. :-) This forum would be pretty boring otherwise.
 
Well of course it's not fair. In fact it's utterly disgusting behaviour on her part.
Sadly her attitude is not unique. A yard I was on had a girl who kept hers in 24/7 other than an hours exercise a day. She claimed they were worth too much money to be turned out (how funny when even Valegro & Uti get turn out).
She left the yard because she couldn't stand everyone else's attitude that she was cruel for keeping her horses like that. Her parting shot was that obviously we were all amateurs who didn't understand about keeping expensive competition horses!
 
Personally I wouldn't keep my horse in, but it is unfair to judge others for their decision to do so, unless there is a clear case of distress. I met someone the other day who works on a dressage yard, and her horse isn't allowed out at all, and from what she said non of the horses were turned out at all either. Not for me, but each to their own.
 
It doesn't sound very fair- but we don't necessarily know the whole story. Maybe her horse has always lived in, or has issues with keeping weight off and this is the only way she can control the types of feed the horse gets? It does sound a bit extreme to say it makes her feel sick at the thought of turning him out.
She might have ha a bad experience bringing horses in from turnout, though. How long has she been on the yard? You might not know the whole story.

Also- if the horse is happy, isn't that what is most important?

I'm not saying that I agree with keeping a horse in 24/7, but maybe there is more to the story than meets the eye. You could try to get to know her better, and find out too!
Goodluck
 
It's up to her at the end of the day - my first yard I was at, we didn't have a horse walker or pen and actually it was only the riding school ponies that had turnout, so my 11hh pony never got turned out - she didn't seem to mind. However now I'm a lot older and I get to choose now not being in London, my boy lives out 24:7 in the summer and is in of a night in the winter or in if its really rubbish weather. If the horse is happy I wouldn't say it's a welfare issue, but I'll probably need to run for cover for saying that!
 
I would not keep mine in all the time just as I hate horses out 24/7 because I worry about how they will cope with box rest if they are not used to the stable and I can't bear to watch them in the flys .
It has to be said she has a point the most expensive appalling injurys I have had to deal with where done turned out .
But it's her horse if the horse was bucking her off and she was asking me for advice I might wade in but otherwise I would butt out.
One of the reasons I am so happy I have mine at home is theres no need to remind my self to button it all the time.
 
I've known the girl for a while, and we do get on well, I've never forced my opinion on her about turnout, as it is a case of each to their own, it'd be different if it was clear her horse was distressed but he isn't. The reason she doesn't turn out is because her last horse was put down after a field injury, so I do understand why she'd be hesitant. I guess that I just think, she's planning on having the horse for the foreseeable future, he's only 8, so that means he could spend the next 4/5 years never being turned out and only being out of the stable once a day for an hour for exercise, would this have any long term implications for the horse?
 
Lots of competition horses are stabled 24/7 apart from an hours exercise/walker - it's really not uncommon.

Not how I would choose to keep mine but isn't that the beauty of having your own horses - your horse, your choice!
 
And just to clarify, I'm not interested in forcing my opinions on anyone, I see that enough at my yard, we can all criticise each other, but I dont see the point unless its a welfare issue. I'm friends with her and don't let her decision to not turn out affect out friendship, it was just a case of wondering what everyone else's opinions were.
 
It's not unusual for horses in parts of Europe to live like this. The ones I've known seemed happy enough and for most of them it's all they've known. If the horse is content, which it seems he is, then is there a problem?
 
Sorry everyone but I have to disagree with 'each to his own'. I think it is cruel to keep a horse in without turnout. Full stop.
 
I may not be one to do it myself but I do know plent of showing people who keep horses in, those horses are sometimes very happy. Others are miserable..... It's not fair to judge anyone however if the horses welfare is at stake then I understand.
 
montanna said:
Lots of competition horses are stabled 24/7 apart from an hours exercise/walker - it's really not uncommon.

Not how I would choose to keep mine but isn't that the beauty of having your own horses - your horse, your choice!
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I think the yard is thinking about building a walker so then he'd get to have a stretch on the walker as well as being ridden. And yes that's the thing, having your own horse should mean you can do as you please. After all I've always like my horses living out but my current horse likes being in too, especially in the bad weather, he makes it clear he wants to come in, and this horse is obviously not distressed living in, otherwise we'd know.

Edited to add that this is only a matter of interest, I'm not going to be sticking my beak in.
 
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Elvis said:
The reason she doesn't turn out is because her last horse was put down after a field injury, so I do understand why she'd be hesitant. I guess that I just think, she's planning on having the horse for the foreseeable future
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So was mine, but I still think there's a good reason keeping healthy horses in 24/7 is not allowed in some countries. Bit blunt of me, and I do see her thought process, but IMO it's not that rational. Turnout injuries can be horrendous but there are a million and one things that can take a horse down outside of the field. Not wishing to start up the how-far-do-you-go-to-minimise-safety-risks debates but turnout is seen by most as a pretty basic aspect of husbandry. That's my opinion (as I'm guessing it's yours); she has hers and if you're not YO or YM, there's not a lot you can do as long as the horse is happy enough and healthy.
 
Tobiano that's just your opinion , I think it's unkind to leave them out when horse flys are really bad and they get no peace but people do it.
I hate horses being alone but one of mine is out alone because he can't be trusted not to fight, this girl has lost her last horse so her view is tainted by that, perhaps in time she will relax a bit.
OP could she get a a small individual paddock perhaps ?
 
it must be such a boring life living in all the time, no proper interaction with other horses. they do seem to manage to just switch off. but then i also disagree with individual turnout, better than nothing but even touching over a fence is not as good as being in together. i know horses can be very expensive and if you compete/show ect you don't want injury, but a horse deserves to be a horse and i would rather they had a small injury here and there and enjoy a natural life. mine live out in a herd of 11 and (fingers crossed) have had only a couple of nicks and cuts in 2 years since moving there.
sorry ranted on a bit! my boy was a racehorse so lived in for about 6 years of his life, and was stressed, used to weave, now he is chilled living out. if they could speak they would definitely ask to be out.
but if the horse is well cared for, nothing you can do, owners choice. problem is the horse is probably so used to being in if it was turned out it might go a bit loopy to start with! Which would put the owner off even more
 
MissChaos said:
So was mine, but I still think there's a good reason keeping healthy horses in 24/7 is not allowed in some countries. Bit blunt of me, and I do see her thought process, but IMO it's not that rational. Turnout injuries can be horrendous but there are a million and one things that can take a horse down outside of the field. Not wishing to start up the how-far-do-you-go-to-minimise-safety-risks debates but turnout is seen by most as a pretty basic aspect of husbandry. That's my opinion (as I'm guessing it's yours); she has hers and if you're not YO or YM, there's not a lot you can do as long as the horse is happy enough and healthy.
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No I'm not YO or YM, just a livery, but even if I was I wouldn't be saying anything unless the horse was clearly not happy, it's a DIY yard, everyone pays their rent for a field and a stable, it's up to us whether we use both and how often, we all treat this differently, some don't turn out all winter, others only turn out for a couple of hours each day, some never bring in etc and all the horses are happy.
 
It's a difficult area I hate individual turnout but I hate broken legs more that's why one of mine is in the sin bin on his own and that's what it was going to end up with if I had persisted in trying to settle him with others.
I had one whose turnout limit was about half an hour I never got her settled so I had to go with the flow with her she preferred in so that's what I gave her half an hour twice a day a play in the school in the evenings and her work.
 
I think it is unfair but she sounds as though she needs help. Maybe counselling or something, if she gets so stressed at the thought of turning him out she feels sick then she is allowing something that happened in the past to colour her whole life, not a good way to cope with things.
 
All mine are out 24/7/365, and happy for it, but I did once take a horse on loan who didn't get on with it, and was much happier when he went back inside 24/7.
A chacun son gout.
 
I also disagree with individual turn-out in for most horses, except in the case of my horse (and ones like her) who, when out in a herd, likes chasing other horses into corners and kicking the crap out of them, and also will claim a horse as "hers" and violently attacks any other horse who gets near it.

The lesson? Socialize your youngsters, people. I got this horse when she was seven. When I first acquired her, I gave her eight months in a herd to hopefully learn social skills but it didn't look like much learning was taking place and she was a danger to herself and others.
 
Goldenstar said:
Tobiano that's just your opinion , I think it's unkind to leave them out when horse flys are really bad and they get no peace but people do it.
I hate horses being alone but one of mine is out alone because he can't be trusted not to fight, this girl has lost her last horse so her view is tainted by that, perhaps in time she will relax a bit.
OP could she get a a small individual paddock perhaps ?
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She works for the yard so she has access to pretty much any field she wants, so could put him in a large field in a herd or smaller individual paddock. And would be on site all day to keep an eye on him, but it does seem to work for both of them having him in all the time. It's not fair of me to judge, but it'd be a boring world if we all agreed on everything all of the time!
 
I don't think its fair but I'm planning on keeping mine in this winter, or only turning out if the ground is firm enough. We need to save the field as we have 2 on the same one year round (new yard rules) and last winter we were having to drag them out of their boxes and into the field as they didn't want to go! And when made to stand out in the rubbish weather/cold they just stood by the gate in the mud sulking all because I thought that would make them happy...

However, the new yard does have facilities and 160 odd acres of off road hacking so it's not like they won't get enough exercise- for example the ridden one can work twice a day/go on the walker/be turned out in the indoor school etc. And if it freezes i.e. the ground hardens up then there's no reason they can't be turned out for a few hours.
 
The yard where I was at previously offered no turnout. Horses were in 24/7 other than an hours leg stretch in a dirt pen very occasionally as it was difficult to get a space as was always booked. It was a nightmare. My horse was miserable and very difficult to handle at times. I moved him as soon as I could and the change in him is incredible, so much more settled and relaxed. I would always prioritise turnout.

However, I used to work at a very busy competition yard with show jumpers that were competed internationally and worth a lot of money and some of them were kept in almost 24/7 but even they were allowed a daily hours turnout into a pen to graze, were ridden daily for around 45 minutes or an hour and had time on the horse walker every morning, also sometimes walked out in hand in the evening so I'm surprised this girl's horse the OP describes is truly happy and I wonder how she finds his ridden work?
 
Caol Ila said:
As a horseperson, it's your inalienable right to be judgmental about all sorts of things other horsepeople do. :-) This forum would be pretty boring otherwise.
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Ooooh, I think you may be my new favourite poster:D

Where's the like button when you need it?
 
Clodagh said:
I think it is unfair but she sounds as though she needs help. Maybe counselling or something, if she gets so stressed at the thought of turning him out she feels sick then she is allowing something that happened in the past to colour her whole life, not a good way to cope with things.
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This is a point, I think she's getting better as with this new horse she's had to try new things and learn with him so is starting to relax a bit, for example she's only just started hacking him as she was worried about what he'd do in an open space, but now they are both enjoying it.

I don't think the field thing was helped by my horse jumping out of his field (totally out of character) and effectively cheese wiring his fetlock to the point that he's now in a cast with a long wait before he'll be allowed to work again or be turned out.
 
I'd hate for any horse to be kept in 24/7 without having the choice to go out at all..

But saying that I have met a few horses who lived in 24/7 and were quite happy, in fact for some if they were turned out they'd stand at the gate all day stressed wanting to come in... (Although the ones who I met who did do this were quite old ponies and liked being in).

Keeping in for no reason isn't fair at all though :(
 
I don't think it's fair and wouldn't keep my horses that way but its not unusual. In some European yards horses get zero turnout and that is the norm.
 
tobiano said:
Sorry everyone but I have to disagree with 'each to his own'. I think it is cruel to keep a horse in without turnout. Full stop.
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Agree completely. There are very few days of the year where mine get no time out of their stables just to be horses.

Goldenstar said:
Tobiano that's just your opinion , I think it's unkind to leave them out when horse flies are really bad and they get no peace but people do it.
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But no one has said turned out 24/7 with no access to shelter, only is it fair to keep it inside 23 hours a day. The horse gets no time to just relax & be a horse. IMO that is cruel.
 
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