Is this fair? Opinions.

Nic said:
Agree completely. There are very few days of the year where mine get no time out of their stables just to be horses.



But no one has said turned out 24/7 with no access to shelter, only is it fair to keep it inside 23 hours a day. The horse gets no time to just relax & be a horse. IMO that is cruel.
Click to expand...

You miss my point I think horses being out in summer when the flys and biting insects are awful is terrible and never allow mine to have to put up with it loads of people don't hold my view that's nothing to do with me .
I don't think people should judge those who don't turn out and concerntrate on their own horses it is a management judgement.
However I think the girl Op is talking about has had an awful experiance I had one break a leg turned out and it took a lot to turn her out again so I really understand where she's at.
My boy had a foreleg fracture ( femur) as the result of a kick in the field before I bought him it's a huge risk turning them out.
IMO as long as sufficent exercise is given and the management to good it's perfectly possible to keep horses happy without turnout.
Perhaps the horses owner will come round in time , OP's horse attempt at self leg removal won't have helped at all .
 
If you were to buy a dog and keep it in a small cage 24/7 there would be an outcry
Personally if the horse has no health issues that neccessitate being kept in and its kept in for the sole ease of the owner,yes its cruel imo.
 
Marydoll said:
If you were to buy a dog and keep it in a small cage 24/7 there would be an outcry
Personally if the horse has no health issues that neccessitate being kept in and its kept in for the sole ease of the owner,yes its cruel imo.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this.

My three are out 24/7 from March (ish) until November (ish) and then in at night over the winter. They are happy and relaxed and i truly believe in daily turnout, even if the weather is bad.

Just my opinion.
 
I could lend her my digger up of stable beds.....she would never want to keep a horse in again after that...lol :)
Poor girl...... what if he gets cast in his stable and has a terrible accident....in and out is fraught with problems....
Sometimes we all just have to live with what life chucks at us.....
Bryndu
 
I think it is unfair to judge her as she has her reasons however I think it is unfair on the horse to be cooped up for 23 hours per day. Personally if I couldnt get my horses out for a minimum of 8 hours I wouldnt keep horses no matter how much I would miss them and go bankers without. I feel so strongly that horses should have horse time on a daily basis and there is no good reason for them not to have. As many accidents happen in a stable a friends horse ripped its foot off and had to be PTS in its stable. It was only in over night and out during the day so wasnt stressed it was a pure accident the door didnt quite reach the floor and he kicked out the board it went up against and got his foot stuck panicked and pulled his leg off at the fetlock joint
 
zaminda said:
Personally I wouldn't keep my horse in, but it is unfair to judge others for their decision to do so, unless there is a clear case of distress. Not for me, but each to their own.
Click to expand...

I disagree with that, its not unfair to judge others who keep their horses in all the time. Thats like saying we shouldnt judge people who keep their dogs in a tiny room in their house for example, its cruelty, simple as. It goes against every single basic need for a horse to be kept in permanently (or for any long length of time) - they need space to move/run, time to graze, time to socialise with other horses. This horse gets none of those things. She does NOT have good reasons to keep this horse in (sorry, but I dont believe there IS a reason to keep a horse in permanently - it would be happier PTS). I would love for my grey to never get dirty, so is that a good reason - no of course not. And mine DID injure himself in the field (career-ending) however I certainly dont regret him being turned out 24/7. Personally I believe she shouldnt own a horse, she's being totally ignorant as to how to keep a horse correctly IMO! Way too many people think this is acceptable when all they're doing is being utterly selfish...
 
Last edited:
tobiano said:
Sorry everyone but I have to disagree with 'each to his own'. I think it is cruel to keep a horse in without turnout. Full stop.
Click to expand...

I agree. Particularly where turnout is available. Just because a horse tolerates it, this does not mean that there is no welfare issue. Shut her in the yard toilet for 24 hours and take her out for a run for 1 hour. See how she likes it.
 
tobiano said:
Sorry everyone but I have to disagree with 'each to his own'. I think it is cruel to keep a horse in without turnout. Full stop.
Click to expand...

This ^

I have lost one to a turnout injury, very suddenly, very tragically at 10 years old so I understand that stomach churning sick feeling at having to turn out a horse initially. However, still I absolutely 100% believe that unless there are specific health issues involved, then a horse has the unequivocal need and right to have some kind of turnout, preferably every day.

I believe this should be a legal requirement to keep a horse. There is far too much "oh well each to their own" in the horse world.
 
A horse's natural environment is outdoors, they are grazing animals. The benefits of turning your horse out each day far outweigh the risks IMO. I have known horses who seem to prefer to be in their stable and stand at the gate, etc. However, of course they will come to the gate if they hear you arrive at the yard and think they're going to be fed or fussed, etc. I'm sure when you turn them out and leave them alone, most horses will not just stand there pining and waiting to be brought in again - they will graze, relax, act like a horse for a while, which is sooooo important. Obviously some horses prefer to be out longer than others or have more tolerance for bad weather or flies, but I personally feel it is cruel to keep them in a box all day and night, unless there is a very very good reason.
 
In the end it comes down to nature. A horse was put here to graze grass in herds- if you stop it by stabling it 24/7 then you are not allowing the horse it's basic freedoms that it should be allowed to do. This quote sums it up for me-

'A horse loves freedom, and the weariest old work horse will roll on the ground or break into a lumbering gallop when he is turned loose into the open' ~Gerald Raferty

Now tell me that isn't true. It may be common practise but it certainly isn't right.
 
Well, since I am well known for my judgementalness, I hereby would like to make a judgement!

Keeping a healthy horse in a tiny stable 24/7 (that isn't ill or convalescing or a dangerous stallion perhaps) is really very cruel!
 
I don't think it takes a genius to figure out that horses are roaming, social animals that should not be kept shut up in a tiny box. I am not being judgemental- it is cruel and unhealthy ! Their bodies aren't designed that way.
 
I bought a horse years ago that had never been turned out. At first he was a little agoraphobic but then discovered the joys of galloping around a field in the morning, rolling and grooming and playing with a mate. It took about a week.

And, yes, he was an expensive competition horse.
 
I'd have to say, in my experience the old phrase 'better out than in' applies here. Don't think it's the worst thing that can happen to a horse by a long way, but I think they aren't living their full life as horses if they are in. I'd rather risk a field injury and know that life, however long it lasts, has been lived and loved as much as possible.
 
I would go stir crazy if I was locked in my bedroom 24/7 with 1 hours exercise a day!!

Even prisoners aren't treated like that!!!

Personally it's not how I would choose to keep my horse but as SadKen said there are a lot worse things that some horses go through
 
Had an expensive Dressage horse staying with us once for a month, owner said he wasn't allowed to go out, just for a leg stretch in the 30 square foot sand area.. if he broke into a canter he was to be brought in immediately ... :( However horse started playing in the field,.. he jumped from standstill a 6ft fence and joined in with the horses, took half an hour to catch him, owner went loopy (even though she was there and saw what happened) said he would be ruined for dressage, and it now wasn't worth him going for a dressage test next day... well she ended up going and the horse performed the best he had ever done, she then allowed him to have an hour turnout each day
 
The facilities are the only reason I can keep mine in. Stabled next to eachother in boxes twice the size a standard stable if not bigger so not cooped up, and they can be turned out loose for a leg stretch together for a buck and run etc
 
Technically speaking, it is both physically and mentally very unhealthy for a horse to be stabled 24/7. That's not my opinion, that's just fact. However we do a lot of stuff that's not medically ideal with our horses (hell, even riding. Mine would be happiest just left in a field eating all his life) so I guess it depends where you draw the line of what is acceptable and what is not.

Would never keep one of mine in 24/7 though, as I too think it is cruel. It's like keeping a horse just for yourself, if that makes sense - a plaything that has no life outside of what you do with it, and is not allowed to be a horse. I see no need for it and absolutely zero benefits. Imagine if enclosures at zoos mirrored the dimensions of stables - there would be outrage.
 
Last edited:
Everyone has their own ideas how to keep a horse, the YO could ask her to remove horse but if horse well looked after, what can you say as each animal is different and I like to stable mine at night in the winter, but out during the day and in summer when the haycrop has been taken to turn out 24/7 and one of my geldings is a box walker but if you tried to leave him out during the winter he'd go into a depression, he wants to come in and be cosy.
 
Whilst far from ideal for the pony, I can't help feeling that the owner is doing so out of panic or perhaps some sort of problem with her life etc, and not out of malice or cruelty.
I wouldn't be too quick to judge and would just try and offer advise without looking like you're trying to force opinion on her!
 
Goldenstar said:
and we think we have welfare problems now !!!
Click to expand...
Yes we do, but that is not a reason to accept cruel practices like 24/7 stabling that is endemic in the horse world.

A life standing in a stable is no life for a horse, no matter how many humans justify it. A minimum turnout period should be implemented.
 
Doublethyme said:
A minimum turnout period should be implemented.
Click to expand...

And how would this be policed? He/said/she said vs the truth. You can't prove it.
Also would I have to get a written permission slip from my vet for box rest? So I'd have the call out fee etc there? Could lead to people ignoring issues in order to save money calling the vet out when all the horse needs is a few days inside..
 
I think its very cruel.
It's not natural.

Amyone that doesn't treat there horse correctly shouldn't have a horse and any yards that can't provide all year turnout shouldn't have horses.
 
Is it fair to keep a rabbit in a hutch? Off topic I know, but same thing really - as is a bird in a cage. Some people will argue that they are domesticated and used to that sort of confinement. Others will argue that their natural instincts will never leave them, despite their domestication.

I personally wouldn't keep my horse in 24/7 for long periods of time (ie over weeks/months) unless obviously on box rest. I also wouldn't keep a rabbit in a hutch 24/7 either, or keep a bird in a cage whatsoever as a form of pet. :-)
 
Doublethyme said:
Yes we do, but that is not a reason to accept cruel practices like 24/7 stabling that is endemic in the horse world.

A life standing in a stable is no life for a horse, no matter how many humans justify it. A minimum turnout period should be implemented.
Click to expand...

So how would that work ,going to a show , sorry you can't it take you too long to get and get back and fit in turnout period bad luck .
Raining cat and dogs field flooded wind so high you can't open the gate turn em out it's the law.
Who on earth wants the tax payer to pay to police such a law not me for a start.
I would have minimum acreages for livery years depending on the number of horses they have but that would raise costs and restict places so it would not be a good idea, fine for me with my own place but difficult for those who depend on reasonably priced livery .
 
Goldenstar said:
So how would that work ,going to a show , sorry you can't it take you too long to get and get back and fit in turnout period bad luck .
Raining cat and dogs field flooded wind so high you can't open the gate turn em out it's the law.
Who on earth wants the tax payer to pay to police such a law not me for a start.
I would have minimum acreages for livery years depending on the number of horses they have but that would raise costs and restict places so it would not be a good idea, fine for me with my own place but difficult for those who depend on reasonably priced livery .
Click to expand...

But this is an area, as you of all people will full well know, is a grey one. Under the Animal Welfare Act animals must be able to express their natural behaviour. How much of a grey area is that? With that sort of situation, common sense is the only guideline I suppose - but it is very subjective still. We could go on and on debating about every single species of animal which may (or may not) come under human control if we are to discuss this side of things to any great depth. Very complex
 
Moomin1 said:
But this is an area, as you of all people will full well know, is a grey one. Under the Animal Welfare Act animals must be able to express their natural behaviour. How much of a grey area is that? With that sort of situation, common sense is the only guideline I suppose - but it is very subjective still. We could go on and on debating about every single species of animal which may (or may not) come under human control if we are to discuss this side of things to any great depth. Very complex
Click to expand...

And it also gives other guidelines that conflict with one and other depending on how they interpreted for instance freedom to display normal behaviour but we castrate , I keep one of my geldings in a individual paddock because he's aggressive and it will result in an serious accident but it's normal and natural dominant behaviour he's showing so does the guideline intend that I just turn him in with the others and hope for the best of course it does not.

It's very subjective and experiance shows using the law to micromanage people behaviour rarely works well.
 
IMHO its cruel to keep ANY animal cooped up for that period of time. Will I appreciate that we dont keep our horses "naturally" I do believe they should have some form of relief and just being a horse. Mine live out 24/7 and Im not over keen on the thought of stabling them at all, but Im really claustrophobic so perhaps that clouds my judgement somewhat..??
 
Marydoll said:
If you were to buy a dog and keep it in a small cage 24/7 there would be an outcry
Personally if the horse has no health issues that neccessitate being kept in and its kept in for the sole ease of the owner,yes its cruel imo.
Click to expand...

I'm with Marydoll.
And my first horse was pts as a result of a field accident. I wouldn't dream of keeping a social animal such as a horse in solitary confinement with no chance of proper interaction with other horses, just for my own benefit (which is what is happening in OP). And if I were the YO I wouldn't allow it to happen.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top