Is this just him being a brat or something else?

Leo Walker

Leo Walker

Well-Known Member
Joined
19 July 2013
Messages
12,384
Location
Northampton
Visit site
I am going off my horse rapidly! Hes a 5yr old HW cob. He was very ploddy and switched off, and long story short, he went off for schooling for a month and I had to tell her to steady him up a bit as he was very hot and sharp. They had no issues with him and he was going brilliantly, I got him back, moved him to a new yard and got really ill so he did next to no work for a couple of months.

I then got the yard rider to ride him for me and he was very backwards and unhappy looking. I knew something wasnt right. So back, teeth, saddle all done again. Some tiny edges on his teeth, but all good. Back completely fine. Saddle had settled and needed the flock adjusting as it was bridging and pinching. So he got the all clear.

Rode him out hacking, just in walk a couple of times for 20 mins. All good, forward and on his toes but lovely really. My 11yr old niece did some bareback pony rides on him and he was foot perfect :) Went to get on him a few days later and he was horrid wouldn't let me on, dragged me about when I did and was then stroppy and backwards, but did go in the end with reasonably good grace. I put this down to most of the yard being fed as I got on. Hes obsessed with food and at that point was muzzled, and had come in ad been tacked up, so I can imagine he felt naffed off.

Hes now no longer muzzled and seems much happier in himself. I had a lesson on Friday, she did some ground work with him, rode him for a short while then I rode him for 15/20mins in walk, working on my position and not really asking anything of him. I got him in today with the idea we would do a 20 min walk session, once or twice round the school then down the lane. He trotted up to me in the field as usual,and I spent some time brushing him off and scratching his itchy bits, as he was so wound up by the muzzle I did the bare minimum as he was a horrid thug

Was fine to tack up, went to get on and he decided to start walking off. I am tired of fighting with him, so I sat on the mounting block and rubbed his ears till he was calm, then he stood like a rock for me to get on. All good :)

Set off with a lovely big swingy walk with happy pricked ears. Then he decided he was going left down the drive and when I asked him to go right towards the school he kicked off. Nothing in the big scheme of things, but he was humping his back, spinning and kicking out when I tried to send him forward and just threatening to escalate. I had to get off as I just cant risk a fall on concrete and it felt like if I kept it up he'd do that. I got off and marched him round the school a few times, then took him back and untacked him.

Anyway, my gut instinct is hes just being a brat. He wanted to go left as there is a warehouse unit there and he wanted to go and see what was going on as they were unloading sacks that looked like horse feed. I wanted to go towards the school which is not his favourite thing. In the past he'd just have been walloped and made to get on with it come what may, but I'm still really unwell at the minute, and actually just cant in general risk being ejected head first on to the concrete. It didnt feel like it would be a one good smack and off he'd go. It felt like he was settling in for a hell of a row.

Would you go down the route of back, teeth, saddle and probably vet? He did have a vet look at him before he went for schooling as I was concerned by how ploddy and lazy he was. Vet said he was fine, although obviously that might have changed now. He looks 100% sound and incredibly well. I am all for making sure there is no issues, but this was all done a couple of months ago. I know more work would help if there is no physical issues and I really am trying, but I'm also still not well at all so its hard for me, and he needs to be brought back in to work slowly as hes so unfit, and thats what I'm trying to do. My instructor is coming Thursday to see how he is with her.

I'm sorry for always posting all these long, woe is me posts about this horse, I adore him, but this year he has been nothing more than a massive pain in the bum and sometimes I just cant see the wood from the trees with him until I ask on here and people say things I should know but just dont figure out on my own!

What would you do now if he was yours?
 
See how he is with the instructor, but how is his weight? Can you link his changes in mood to any changes in his management? "Ploddy/lazy" in my pony has tended to mean low-grade laminitis, from which he was suffering very frequently until I got him off grass completely. He found schooling difficult and worrying, and I made the mistake of pushing the issue until he went off it so completely that now, I school mainly on hacks, because it's just not worth the fighting.

If you manage to get him more fit, you may find he's not feeling so grotty, and might be more co-operative?

I feel for you; with so many variables in the game, it's difficult to pin down a problem.
 
Whether he is just being a brat, is grumpy because he is hungry or has an issue yet to be found is going to take a bit more consistency, which if you are unwell may be difficult, to discover, for now I would not be mounting on a concrete yard but taking him into the school and mounting there, partly to avoid a discussion about where you are going and partly for safety reasons, by mounting in the school you will be able to gain more idea of what is going on with him and are more likely to be able to ride him through it.

I have had 2 of my worst falls just after mounting, one was in the school fortunately so no real harm done, the other a minor concussion with a few minutes loss of memory, they left me with a fear of getting on for a while unless the horse stood stock still and I am careful about other people mounting if the horse is at all uptight, if you were in my yard I would be insisting on you going in the school to get on if I saw him behave as you described.
 
I'm the first to suggest pain

But in this instance it sounds like he's just being rude. He can probably tell you are not 100% sending him forward, so is using that to get out of work

I'd get some else to hop on and have that battle for you because you don't want to hurt yourself when you are already not totally fighting fit

Good luck
 
Thinking about it, when I rode in my lesson we got on in the school, so there was no discussion about where we were going, we where already there! This is the first time I have been truly despondent about it all. I've had him since he was 2.5yr old and kept him despite him not being ideal because I always felt he would never deck me deliberately and that he was working with me, even if he got cross or fed up, he was always trying for me.

Hes smart, really smart! He susses anyone out in seconds, so I have no doubt he knows I'm not up to it. The ploddy lazy thing was before he went for schooling and I think he just genuinely didn't understand about forward. Once he got it, he was off! His favourite thing was bounding along in a huge medium trot. He is quite a forward pony, he doesnt cover a lot of ground with his stumpy legs, but he always feels like hes really taking you forward. I adore him, hes everything I want, but today really threw me as he just wanted shot of me.

It might just be that I'm not up to riding him, but that leaves me with a hell of a dilemma about what to do with him! And I honestly think I'd just give up. We have such a good relationship normally. He knows I don't allow bad behaviour and like I said always tries for me even when he's not sure. Well he did until I muzzled him and he decided I was a BAD PERSON. But its off now and he was fab, until he decided that he just didn't want to do what I wanted to do. We have had some epic discussion in hand, and maybe thats what we need under saddle, except I'll just tipple off the side like a weeble!
 
I think this issue aside you need to think long term about how you are going to manage this horse. He is a baby (I think... From reading other posts but could be wrong there) that also clearly needs plenty of work to keep the weight off, he's still learning so consistent regular work is necessary for him especially at this stage.

Can you realistically, long term provide him with the amount of exercise he needs and if not can you pay someone to ride him regularly or find a sharer. If the answer is no then maybe something older that can be ridden as and when with not too much fuss would be more suitable?

It does sound like he's just being plain rude and it's amazing how things can escalate with us mere mortals that a pro would nip in the bud before it had even really happened.
 
Michen said:
I think this issue aside you need to think long term about how you are going to manage this horse. He is a baby (I think... From reading other posts but could be wrong there) that also clearly needs plenty of work to keep the weight off, he's still learning so consistent regular work is necessary for him especially at this stage.

Can you realistically, long term provide him with the amount of exercise he needs and if not can you pay someone to ride him regularly or find a sharer. If the answer is no then maybe something older that can be ridden as and when with not too much fuss would be more suitable?

It does sound like he's just being plain rude and it's amazing how things can escalate with us mere mortals that a pro would nip in the bud before it had even really happened.
Click to expand...

You are 100% right and thats the root of me being so upset! I sent him out on loan and bought myself a kick along cob and I hated it :( I took him back when the loan went horribly wrong, and then I couldnt bear to let him go. I adore him and just "get" him. He has always, previous to tonight, been on my side, thats not quite what I mean, but its close! I always felt like he was working with me, even when he was angry or confused. I never felt like he would ever deliberately ditch me until tonight.

Frankie was supposed to be my compromise. Current health issues aside, I have to minimise the risk of a serious fall. But I also cant bear the thought of a proper kick along cob :( I thought he was going to be my horse of a lifetime. I've worked through lot of stroppy young cob behaviour, but that was fine and we really do get along very well normally. I can hear him think usually and if I cant, I can understand where hes coming from :)

And then tonight he would have decked me in order to go and look at sacks of feed that were actually dog food! So now we've hit a problem that can probably only be resolved with a decent rider and a smacked arse! And thats not me right now :(
 
Hes 5yr old, 6yr old April 2nd and I've owned him since he was 2/5yr old. I backed him myself in the autumn of his 3yr old year, then sadly I got too fat for baby ponies and he didnt grow to the height he should have made! But I've been cleared to ride him by 3 vets, my back lady the dentist, etc, etc.
 
What about a long-term loan (years) and get him back when he is 9-10? Or sell with right to first purchase later?
In the mean time, there is are a lot of horses that fit in between what you have described and a kick-along cob! What you need is something that feels like him on his good days, but is a gentleman at all times.
Sorry, but i disagree with the 'horse of a lifetime' thing. There are a lot of special horses out there and I have had a super-special horse in the past, which i still miss, but the one that replaced him was very special too (bought just to sell on and make money, but she became too special to do so). I think we can put too much expectation on horses to be what we want rather than what they are - which is setting us up for disappointment. It does sound like yours is being a 'teenager' (growing up and testing things out) plus may be mixed with some boredom at the moment and, as Michen says, may be much better to think of whether this is right for your circumstances. :) :)
 
I would get a good brave experienced rider on him and set him up for an argument and see what he does. You might find he gives in quite easily or you might see that yes, he is potentially going to hurt you.

If he's not suitable for you, you don't have to have a plod instead. There are middle ground cobs like mine who is enormous fun but also totally safe and genuine. She has never tried anything on ever.

Your one could be like that too if you could get someone to ride him through the fat headed cob stage for you but it's not worth you trying to do it and getting hurt. I also think you need someone to come to your yard, rather than sending him away.
 
I'd do the same as suggested if it were me, get someone to help maybe a share or part loan to stay at your yard. If you can't you may have to pay a rider but it could prove a really worthwhile investment in the long run.
 
My rock steady cob got the Kevin's at 5 too. I fully sympathise :( I have found a lovely instructor to come once a week who schools him for 20 minutes and then I get on for 20 minutes. It means that she sorts out the issues and then I get on and back it up whilst he is being good. This has given me so much more confidence to ride him through anything through the rest of the week.

My boy also doesn't like the leg too much (soft pressure is all that is really needed) - I find if he is playing up he tolerates a tap on the shoulder with a short whip much better.
 
Bless you, I honestly don't think that you need to get rid of him!! just get a brave rider on him and watch them, see that he's not actually going to do anything nasty and that will help your confidence!

This is coming from me, who was in a very similar place to you last year! my boy, I've had since 18 months old! he was backed last year, going really well, then started rearing, vertical! lost my confidence, decided to sell him! then had a change of heart, vet came, he was lame! Long story short he was on box rest for 4 months and I couldnt imagine getting back on him!

I had 2 riders help me, one is now my instructor! when she got on him he did a circuit of the school in buck, but not once did he rear with her! that made me feel a million times happier!

I then started riding again, and had a fab summer, no issues until his lameness came back in July, he was clearly uncomfortable, not wanting to be tacked up, did a few small rears, but this time I realised he must be sore, he wasn't trying to get me off so I coped with him!

I'm not riding again after removing his shoes and I hacked out around the farm on my own last weekend and it felt amazing! I'm more willing to have those argements with him now, but I find that I only really need them if he's sore, he's not always lame to start with but a few days later he will come in lame!
 
to add to my facebook comments :)

he sounds a bit porky therefor inclined to be arsey about working, he probably gets a bit hot and itchy and tired quickly and thus doesnt really feel up for it.

he is also lacking boundaries(this post has a bit more info than on fb). just picking up on the 1 example given-if he doesnt want to stand to be mounted, dont make it nice for him to arse around, get after him. If he wants to fidget make him MOVE! so quick,tight spinnning circles round you, 4/5 times, then ask him to stand at the block again. If he fidgets again, make him MOVE again.

it took Goof precisely 2 days to decide standing where he was put was far easier :)

it sounds like he got one over on you by standing on HIS terms not yours and just escalated that by not wanting to follow YOUR direction to the school.

I still think you need to rope your OH in to do some long lining/lunging/loose schooling to get the weight and attitude gone, whilst you arent well enough to battle.
 
I know I'm being irrational, probably because I'm not well at the minute, but I'm just so, so upset over this. Its such a struggle for me to look after him at the minute but its what keeps me going. Its also my fault. If he had more work he'd be fine I think.

I just cannot find anyone to ride him. I dont want any money, they dont have to even muck out, just turn up and ride. We have miles and miles of off road hacking in fields and forests. And no one wants to know. In fact, since I moved him 3 people who had wanted adverts up, havent even turned up to see him!

I've got a lesson tomorrow, so he can have today off and I'll see how he is for her. I should be getting the results of some tests today which should give me some indication of how long I'm going to be ill like this for. If its going to go on much longer then I might have to rough him off and turn him away for the winter while I sort myself out. It shouldnt be this hard and I'm making it harder than it needs to be by trying to do this while I'm so weak
 
FrankieCob said:
I

I just cannot find anyone to ride him. I dont want any money, they dont have to even muck out, just turn up and ride. We have miles and miles of off road hacking in fields and forests. And no one wants to know. In fact, since I moved him 3 people who had wanted adverts up, havent even turned up to see him!
Click to expand...

You need to be paying someone to ride him through the issues - a loaner could make it worse.
 
Personally, I would turn him away for the winter and in Spring when you have a clearer idea of your own health, get a professional to restart him with a view to his future, whether that will be with you or someone else, if you feel that your health means that you need an older more predictable horse.
However, re-reading your OP, what jumps out at me is the saddle fit. Your horse must be changing shape becasue of the changes to his management and he was fine bareback with your niece. Remeber that the best judge of saddle fit is the horse not the fitter.

I do hope that you get some positive news from your doctor.
 
I'm not looking for someone to ride through the issues. He came home from schooling and was foot perfect. And to be fair to him, until yesterday he has been fine. But I havent bothered looking for anyone else since the last one failed to turn up a month ago and then I just gave up

PS hes normally 100% to get on. Stands like a rock. Normally I do have things out with him, but I'm just so sick of fighting with him all the time and thought I'd try being "nice" and calming him down rather than escalating it. It seemed to work really well. He relaxed after a few seconds and was then fine. But your probably right!

I can have the saddle checked again, but I think its fine. Previously saddles not fitting right have made him shut down and backwards, this isnt like that. He was fine with my niece as he was marching down the lane not having anything asked of him, and he likes that sort of thing :lol:
 
Last edited:
EQUIDAE said:
You need to be paying someone to ride him through the issues - a loaner could make it worse.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this! I paid my instructor and she did an amazing job! a sharer won't be the way!
It might only take a week for a pro to get him to realise he can't keep taking the pee!

I started getting mine ridden 3 days a week, then 2 then 1 and now its just as and when! once my boy is totally comfy without his shoes I will probably start getting him ridden again once a week just to get him back into the swing of it as it takes my instructor 1 minute to get him going well, takes me a lot longer
 
Some good advice here. Personally it sounds like he's got SOWS....short of work syndrome.

Yes he's fat & unfit but he sounds like a smart cookie who needs work & TBH that is going to be more than a bit of walking. If you can't give him the work then I would look at paying perhaps your instructor to do it.
 
He sounds like a typical young cob, imo.
I think he just needs consistent work. As he's 5 I'm guessing he's still relatively green, but half an hour of w/t/c schooling with exercises that make him have to think a little bit can sometimes be enough for them.

I honestly would love to have a go if I lived closer, the last young cob I rode was a pain in the rearend but I absolutely loved him and when he was in good form and fit he was fantastic.

My own cob is 14 coming 15 and is a PITA when he's not ridden/lunged/getting any real exercise. It is due to him being unfit, fat, clever and not getting enough work. That said he's come back into work really nicely and seems to be really willing to try after about a year off with a few weeks when he was back into work and is just much nicer too. When he's in work full time and fit he's brilliant, he has his off days but generally much easier to manage, it's when he's not in work or getting enough and he's bored, unfit and has lots of energy he seems to be at his worst. And I do think it is just a cob thing, and you have a smart boy who is just getting bored and wants to be doing things.

I was in the exact same situation, and once I got better and felt better the rest started to come too. I hope you're feeling much better soon, and have the best, easiest recovery possible. It's a horrible situation to be in and you do feel very lost and hopeless whilst you know it's not necessarily the fault of your horse either. Really not nice, and you have all my sympathies.

Whoever says cobs are easy horses is wrong! hehe
 
FrankieCob said:
I'm not looking for someone to ride through the issues. He came home from schooling and was foot perfect. And to be fair to him, until yesterday he has been fine. But I havent bothered looking for anyone else since the last one failed to turn up a month ago and then I just gave up

PS hes normally 100% to get on. Stands like a rock. Normally I do have things out with him, but I'm just so sick of fighting with him all the time and thought I'd try being "nice" and calming him down rather than escalating it. It seemed to work really well. He relaxed after a few seconds and was then fine. But your probably right!

I can have the saddle checked again, but I think its fine. Previously saddles not fitting right have made him shut down and backwards, this isnt like that. He was fine with my niece as he was marching down the lane not having anything asked of him, and he likes that sort of thing :lol:
Click to expand...

I thought the point was that you need someone who is weller- that doesn't have to get off so as not to risk a fall then you can see whether he does do the fight you were anticipating or just says oops sorry, yeah you were right, in which case you might be happier to stay on in future.
 
glamourpuss said:
Some good advice here. Personally it sounds like he's got SOWS....short of work syndrome.

Yes he's fat & unfit but he sounds like a smart cookie who needs work & TBH that is going to be more than a bit of walking. If you can't give him the work then I would look at paying perhaps your instructor to do it.
Click to expand...

This absolutely!
 
ester said:
I thought the point was that you need someone who is weller- that doesn't have to get off so as not to risk a fall then you can see whether he does do the fight you were anticipating or just says oops sorry, yeah you were right, in which case you might be happier to stay on in future.
Click to expand...

sorry, I wasnt very clear. I'm not looking for someone to ride him for free now hes being like this. I was until recently. I was replying to a comment that I didn't quote for some reason. My instructors coming tomorrow. She normally rides him first then I do. So I'm going to set him up to be a sod tomorrow and see what happens. I've also managed to get his old rider to agree to come once a week and ride him. Hes a teenage boy who always wanted more oomph from him, so I'm sure he will like the new Frankie :lol:

However I was watching him tonight and he just seems unsettled and on edge in himself. Not sure if more work will settle him, or if theres just something about this yard that he doesnt like. I've never known him to be like that before and I've moved him about loads.

I've also cut all his feed, not that he got much. But now hes just getting chopped straw and some salt. No balancers, no handful of alfa a, no copra etc. Nothing. I've also got some small bale straw coming and then he can have half hay, half straw. Hes not too bad weight wise now, but he doesnt need any excuses feed wise!
 
Hes tense all the time. My OH brought him in from the field today and said he was frightened of him. Frankie was apparently really on edge and jumpy. Hes not really horsey, but he does know Frankie and said hes never been like this before. I dunno, I cant decide if I'm making excuses or if theres something going on. I'm interested to see what he does tomorrow. Probably nothing as he knows he wont get away with it!
 
I would put him on magnesium, I swear by it, and it makes me more confident as I feel the horse will be calmer, the placebo effect works for me every time, I don't know about the horse!
I wouldn't bother with the vet, he sounds like he is just being an arse.
I think you do need to decide whether to turn him away or fight him through it, and whichever you decide stick with it.
 
He was on magnesium, he was getting pro mineral and extra magnesium, then I changed him to Blue Chip super calmer which had magnesium and other stuff in, Hes had that for a month and seemed better for a few days, but that could have just been a coincidence/placebo effect. We did have a problem one winter when he was getting loads of carrots and turned into an idiot, and he does usually need magnesium.

But I've stopped everything now. Just chopped straw, salt and hay. I'll give it a week or so then start adding things back in, see if anything makes any difference. It probably wont, but it cant hurt :)
 
You have to remember he is only five and five year old horses can be a bit like the equine version of teenagers! Otherwise maybe he finds it painful-have you had him long? Has he had a bad experience in the past?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top