Is this legal?

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Lets say that some well meaning member of the public put some mud control mats down on an approximately 3m long stretch of bridleway that gets over fetlock joint deep (on a 17hh'er)... would that be on the right or wrong side of the law?

Every winter it renders the only concrete based and thus reliably useable, circular, round the block hack, utterly useless - unless you're willing to risk injury, and its genuinely only 3m of the otherwise completely hardcore'd bridleway which is SO annoying.

Not this winter, its too late now, it would have to be in prep for next...

 

[ihatework]

No idea, I doubt anyone would complain! But said person laying them might find they grow legs

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

I'd worry that person (a) would report as fly tipping and person (b) would nick them. Do you know who the landowner is? Could you ask to cover the cost of hardcoring the last bit (if you can, that is, but no more expensive than mcs I would think?)

 

[Flowerofthefen]

Someone put some slabs down on a similar bit of byway that we used to ride on. Too heavy for most people to move. No one seems to have complained.

 

[ycbm]

If it's accessible by quad bike with a small trailer I'd be more inclined to dump clean stone in a metre wide strip through it.
.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My guess would be its council owned, it's a short bridleway between a plot owned by southern water (fenced off) and our yard, it's only use is to cut off the corner so you can get from road A to road B without having to go out onto the carriage way (which would be unrideable and unwalkable).

Someone put some slabs down on a similar bit of byway that we used to ride on. Too heavy for most people to move. No one seems to have complained.

I like this idea, could probably find some for not a lot of money too and less likely to be stolen...

If it's accessible by quad bike with a small trailer I'd be more inclined to dump clean stone in a metre wide strip through it.
.

It's too narrow for this, and the muddy bit must literally have no bottom because you really do sink so I think you'd need a hell of a lot of it - I was hoping there was something I could do quietly with little interruption

 

[JBM]

I think they’ll be nicked

 

[BurntontheoutsideTurkey]

The slabs idea does sound doable if you have a trailer and sufficient strong people - those big ex-council slabs weigh an absolute ton but once they're down they're down. Usually some available cheap on fb marketplace.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The slabs idea does sound doable if you have a trailer and sufficient strong people - those big ex-council slabs weigh an absolute ton but once they're down they're down. Usually some available cheap on fb marketplace.

Actually that's a point, a trailer wouldn't fit up there and I don't know that anyone would volunteer to help, it's right in the middle and it's short but not that short.

That's why i was thinking mud mats, as they're light.. would someone nick them if its only a small patch? You wouldn't need to lay enough of them that it would make any material difference in someones field...

Would a stable rubber matt sit on top of it, or would that just make it look like a fly tipping site and/or sink?

 

[Hallo2012]

i think id go for the council slabs..... mcm will get nicked IMO

 

[ester]

Good luck lifting council slabs

 

[angel7]

Loads of free slabs on faceache, McM would be nicked.

 

[meleeka]

You could wheelbarrow a couple of council slabs at a time. I have loads in my field and they are very heavy, so don't move once bedded in. I don't suppose anyone would mind what was put there.

 

[Nocturnal]

Maybe dump some sand over the top of the mats to conceal them a bit till they’re bedded in? Might put people off nicking them

 

[Barton Bounty]

Id scrape it back and lay them, or slabs to be honest

 

[Equi]

It would probably be seen as fly tipping or criminal damage and they would likely be removed even if they are doing a good job because of risk assessments and red tape and they don’t like being told what to do.

BUT only if someone reports it lol

 

[Errin Paddywack]

Only snag that I can see is that if anyone got injured as a result of them being there (always some idiots around) then you could be liable. The local footpath volunteers once tried putting broken slabs down in our field along a very muddy stretch of the footpath. BIL told them to remove as otherwise any injuries would be on their heads. My insurance wouldn't have covered it.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Only snag that I can see is that if anyone got injured as a result of them being there (always some idiots around) then you could be liable. The local footpath volunteers once tried putting broken slabs down in our field along a very muddy stretch of the footpath. BIL told them to remove as otherwise any injuries would be on their heads. My insurance wouldn't have covered it.

My intention would not for it to be public I had done it so no personal liability, I don't think southern water do much to maintain it so may not see its been done.. it's trimmed back once per year and let overgrow the rest of the time.

One end has a 10 inch drop with a small gulley in it, so I can't imagine they're super hot on worrying about being sued or they'd have sorted that!

 

[Equi]

Could you contact them explaining the situation, ask for a review and explain you’re willing to donate the mats etc? They might be more open to it than you think.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Could you contact them explaining the situation, ask for a review and explain you’re willing to donate the mats etc? They might be more open to it than you think.

Just spoke to YM, its owned by southern water - I could try this but they are an absolute mess of a company (I know several people that work there) so sadly I think this would be a waste of time, and then if ignored I will have highlighted my name as responsible should I then put something down anyway..

 

[Equi]

Well I won’t tell on you
I’d do it and see what happens.

 

[JenJ]

Just bear in mind that mud control mats can be slippery. And if a member of the public slipped (or claimed to have slipped) on them then there may be trouble...

(Sorry to be the voice of doom )

 

[Exasperated]

Lets say that some well meaning member of the public put some mud control mats down on an approximately 3m long stretch of bridleway that gets over fetlock joint deep (on a 17hh'er)... would that be on the right or wrong side of the law?

Every winter it renders the only concrete based and thus reliably useable, circular, round the block hack, utterly useless - unless you're willing to risk injury, and its genuinely only 3m of the otherwise completely hardcore'd bridleway which is SO annoying.

Not this winter, its too late now, it would have to be in prep for next...

If the route is local authority owned, you should formally ask their permission (Public Rights of Way dept), because they actually have a legal obligation to keep public routes safe for use by legitimate users, and you won’t have either the perceived requisite training or liability insurance.
This will probably generate an immediate ‘no’, in case what you use might cause injury to other legit users, and because it hasn’t been through the relevant channels for consideration / safety / environmental impact, ad infinitum, plus - PROW depts very rarely have any spare man hours or money.
Equally, PROW officers regularly turn a blind eye to ad hoc solutions - which take place all over the network.
If you are CONFIDENT that you can get sufficient mud mats down there on the quiet, and that you would then be equally confident to ride your horse or bicycle or walk across them ( recognising that these activities sound impossible to safely do, currently), I’d be very inclined to get on and do it.
And I’d be equally inclined not to tell everyone what you have achieved, either.
The correct alternative is raise a formal complaint with PROW about the dangerously unusable state of the path, generate plenty of publicity using local media , emails, letters to Councillors etc, and let PROW sort it out - but do not hold your breath, it’s most unlikely to be sorted out for your use this winter, and probably go to the back of a long queue....
Good luck, the world needs far more public spirited individuals!

 

[WelshD]

I reckon they'll be stolen

What I would do is cope for now then when its dry chuck a load of stone down, you'll need far less stone to stabilise it if its dry when the new surface goes down

 

[Roxylola]

I managed to get some changes to a non bridlepath shared access route local to my previous yard. I sent a contact via their website, shared the link and info on Facebook and basically asked if any other locals would do the same. Lots did, and they changed to much better styles. I did emphasise a safety issue with what was in place at the time.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

The correct alternative is raise a formal complaint with PROW about the dangerously unusable state of the path, generate plenty of publicity using local media , emails, letters to Councillors etc, and let PROW sort it out - but do not hold your breath, it’s most unlikely to be sorted out for your use this winter, and probably go to the back of a long queue....
Good luck, the world needs far more public spirited individuals!

Someone tried this last winter, and they shut it until it dried out as it was too dangerous, which upset many as its the only link to good hacking for 3 of the yards up the lane (and who are less worrisome about soft tissues in legs than I, if they continue using it).

I managed to get some changes to a non bridlepath shared access route local to my previous yard. I sent a contact via their website, shared the link and info on Facebook and basically asked if any other locals would do the same. Lots did, and they changed to much better styles. I did emphasise a safety issue with what was in place at the time.

Who's website, southern water??

 

[Exasperated]

Just spoke to YM, its owned by southern water - I could try this but they are an absolute mess of a company (I know several people that work there) so sadly I think this would be a waste of time, and then if ignored I will have highlighted my name as responsible should I then put something down anyway..

Is it a full public route? or a permissive route, for which Southern Water have given the public permission to use? Asking, because permissive routes can be closed at whim of landowner, and occasionally are when issues of expensive maintenance crop up.
If a public bridleway, then your local authority Public Rights of Way Dept does have responsibility to ensure safe usability for legitimate users - they sometimes have to take issues of obstruction etc up with whoever is the landowner over which the public route passes.
Private water companies own large tracts of land all over UK, with many miles of both public and permissive paths. Offering these ‘public goods’ earns brownie points, and they usually have dedicated managers and budget to achieve them.

 

[Exasperated]

Someone tried this last winter, and they shut it until it dried out as it was too dangerous, which upset many as its the only link to good hacking for 3 of the yards up the lane (and who are less worrisome about soft tissues in legs than I, if they continue using it).


Who's website, southern water??

Ok, so PROW and S.Water are obviously aware of the seasonal issue and have done nothing to remedy - either you raise a seriously big fuss about the safety and necessity of this route to force their hands, or....

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Is it a full public route? or a permissive route, for which Southern Water have given the public permission to use? Asking, because permissive routes can be closed at whim of landowner, and occasionally are when issues of expensive maintenance crop up.
If a public bridleway, then your local authority Public Rights of Way Dept does have responsibility to ensure safe usability for legitimate users - they sometimes have to take issues of obstruction etc up with whoever is the landowner over which the public route passes.
Private water companies own large tracts of land all over UK, with many miles of both public and permissive paths. Offering these ‘public goods’ earns brownie points, and they usually have dedicated managers and budget to achieve them.

From looking at Bridleways UK, it's definitely a formal bridleway rather than just permissive use. The end 10m of it seem to be clickable separately from the first 30m, so I wonder if that makes any difference

 

[cold_feet]

I would think dumping stone (or even mats) would be considered fly tipping - and not particularly user friendly. Walkers and cyclists have access too, it would only take one person to complain and then probably the bridleway would be closed while the H&S checks went on.