Is this normal behaviour for some geldings??

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rcm_73

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Beginning to get a bit concerned about a 'gelding' I bought last Feb. Through the summer he has behaved a bit stallion like, I have seen him mount two mares, get excited(in a manly kind of way lol) once and generally is a bit bargy, makes the mares squeal and likes to be biting at something whether it be one of his rugs, a brush and has even tried getting hold of my coat recently whilst I am wearing it! He is also very dominant in the field and if he is in a mixed herd he has been seen to herd mares away from other geldings. Now I've come across other 'geldings' that have displayed similar behaviour including mounting mares, biting etc but I'm just wondering how usual this is and if there's a good chance my horse is a rig?
 
Firstly get him blood tested to know for sure.

My lad is not a rig (been blood tested twice) but shows riggy tendencies (mounts and is very possessive over mares and can be aggressive towards geldings and humans).

In the summer i have him on Global Herbs Rigcalm and believe me its turned my raging ball of testosterone in to my loving moody man.
 
My gelding is very like this, but has never mounted our mare. But hta could be because she bucks!! I don't think he's a rig, but i know my boy was cut late, so that has some thing to do wiht his stallionish behaviour! My boy also flirts with the stallion at the yard...!!
 
As I am told Rigs are very rare. We have had quiet a few geldings who do those type of things and never really thought about it. Might be worth getting it checked out, but it has never bothered us.
 
My boy cannot be kept anywhere near mares as he is extremely protective over them and beats up the other geldings
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He was a stallion up until 2 1/2 years old so I guess thats why he behaves like he does. Do you know your boys history? Is there a chance he could of been cut late?
 
Hmmm yeah thanks..I've been trying to get hold of the lady who had him from a yearling today to see if he was gelded before or after she had him. I bought him off a dealer that had bought him of this lady I was trying to contact. I must say I've spoken to her before and she never suggested he may be a rig...unless it just slipped her mind...but as I didn't buy him off her as she had unwittingly sold him to a dealer posing as a private buyer then she shouldn't need to hide anything.

It's just someone on the yard keeps telling everyone he's a rig because he mounted her filly once, so I think i will get the bloods done and then if he isn't at least I have proof to shut this person up!
 
Lance was a working stallion until 5, and when he was younger he would mount mares, and be possessive over them, he has been and is to this day field boss.

However he is not a rig! he couldnt give a toss about a mare in season, for him its about power and having control of he herd, hence why he and Beau fought so much.

Beau tries to be boss, and only last night they were fighting over an in season mare, well the mare was flirting with them both, Beau must have won because she was following him around the field all night and was still by his side this morning. He is not a rig.

It has more to do with herd hierarchy and dominance than sex.
 
The trouble with rigs is that there are two main types - the ones that have testicles (usually which didn't 'descend' so weren't removed at castration). These have testosterone which fuels their stallion-like behaviour (although some don't show any signs at all).
The second type, is the behavioural rig...which is often cut late (there is a school of thought that if you cut a colt late, it'll have better muscle development so will be more saleable). And the trouble with these are that the rig-like behaviours become ingrained even though there is actually no testosterone fuelling it.
I'd get your boy blood tested in the first instance...if he isn't a rig, I'd still split him from your mares...to be safe.
S
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Yeah I don't turn him out with mares, I told the YO to get it sorted and stop letting people just stick their horses wherever then moan when things go wrong. So now we have a boys field and a girls field although you still get the odd idiot that decides one day to chuck a filly in with the five boys.

Think I'll go for the test though as I need to know for myself aswell what I'm dealing with when I'm on the back of him!
 
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Think I'll go for the test though

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No, dear, it's the horse you need to test...unless you're a woman with a 'tache?
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PS See, I was doing quite well at being serious there and you went and spoiled it all.
 
There was a very interesting arcticle about this in magazine and this is what it said.....
"Some late cut geldings do show stalliion-like behaviour, such as maintaining a harem(when stallions dominate a group of mares), mounting mares and general bossiness. However this has nothing todo with the age at which they were gelded." Dr Debbie Marsden equine behaviour.
(JA Allen) "You will notice that they also mount other gelding and non-cycling (out of season) mares, and thay would have shown the same behaviour even if 'cut' as early as possible, because it is not caused testosterone and is not about mating."

PM me if you would like the name of the mag and rest of article
 
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There was a very interesting arcticle about this in magazine and this is what it said.....
"Some late cut geldings do show stalliion-like behaviour, such as maintaining a harem(when stallions dominate a group of mares), mounting mares and general bossiness. However this has nothing todo with the age at which they were gelded." Dr Debbie Marsden equine behaviour.
(JA Allen) "You will notice that they also mount other gelding and non-cycling (out of season) mares, and thay would have shown the same behaviour even if 'cut' as early as possible, because it is not caused testosterone and is not about mating."

PM me if you would like the name of the mag and rest of article

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Well that first quotation is a contradiction in terms, isn't it. If it's nothing to do with late gelding, why would they start with 'Some late cut geldings...?'
I may have to PM you...
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I know that animals, including horses and dogs, mount to express dominance, not due to sex and procreation necessarily.

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The behaviours from being a rig aren't necessarily just sexual are they?
S
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[ QUOTE ]
There was a very interesting arcticle about this in magazine and this is what it said.....
"Some late cut geldings do show stalliion-like behaviour, such as maintaining a harem(when stallions dominate a group of mares), mounting mares and general bossiness. However this has nothing todo with the age at which they were gelded." Dr Debbie Marsden equine behaviour.
(JA Allen) "You will notice that they also mount other gelding and non-cycling (out of season) mares, and thay would have shown the same behaviour even if 'cut' as early as possible, because it is not caused testosterone and is not about mating."

PM me if you would like the name of the mag and rest of article

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Thanks for this from Your Horse magazine. I've done a quick trawl through some online ethology and applied animal science journals......and can find no articles regarding this from Dr Marsden. If anyone knows of any, that would be interesting. Without the full text of Your Horse's myths exposed it's hard to discuss it further.
S
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I would think you'd know if he was a rig - I had one I believe was because he was a nutcase! He used go crazy over my mare and even jumped into my geldings paddock and began attacking him... He was bargy and generally acted like a full blown stallion. We assumed he'd grow out of it but Ive heard he has remained like this since.

My Welsh can act a bit like yours - he'll mount my mare if she's in season to the point that I actually keep them seperate now. He can also be bargy and often shows off in front of the girls at shows! I wouldn't worry too much, I think some geldings are just a bit more of a "stud" than some others!
 
Well have spoke to the lady that had him from a yearling and he was two when castrated, about feb she said so then he would have been coming three, so quite late on, she said he'd already developed some coltish behaviour.

As for his bits, she said she was there when he was castrated and had her other colt done also. The vet kindly allowed her to dispose of the 'bits' lol and she said there was definately four of them, so unless the other horse had three testicles it would appear that my boy had both bits removed!
 
While testicles produce the lions' share of testosterone (and therefore the fuel for "studdy" behaviour motivation) the adrenal gland also produces it and is obviously unaffected by gelding.
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The old "proud cut" myths have been pretty much put to rest (although there might have been more truth to them when castration was a far less scientific procedure) there is evidence that some geldings may continue to produce enough testosterone for everything to "work" at least at a reduced level.

Interestingly there seems to be some evidence such behaviour runs in families. I had a gelding who apparently did not get the gelding memo (although he was very well behaved so long as everyone remembered, just like a good stallion) and whenever it came up in conversation along with his breeding people would nod sagely in recognition. I read up on his lines and sure enough there was story after story of particularly aggressive stallions (good race horses so lots of entires) and not-too-gelded geldings. Further reading turned up at least anecdotal support for other lines as well. Makes sense, I guess, as increased adrenal function could be an inherited "issue", especially if paired with a particularly dominant personality line.

As far as handling it really shouldn't make a difference as even stallions can learn how to behave properly. With other horses it might just need to be cause for special care, as it was for my horse - it's hard to train a horse when you're not around. There is absolutely no sense in letting someone else or another horse get injured just to prove a point.

I am against it on principle and in practice but I have heard of people "treating" such horses with Regumate or similar. (I've heard of people using it on stallions too . . . *rolls eyes*) I know this is an "off label" use but I guess if you could find a vet with experience it might be an option if there is simply no other way. But Regumate is dangerous stuff, expensive, and a banned drug for male horses so be very sure if you want to go that route.
 
If your horse was a rig, he would be fighting the geldings too. Perhaps your 'friend' should consider the fact her filly may be a tart (I know my mare is), and just got what she wanted!!!
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The poor gelding that used to be out with my mare got a bit of a name for himself (due to repeated games of field wheel-barrows), till I pointed out that my mare was chasing him round the field backwards, till her demands were met!!!
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(the hussy is now in a separate paddock).
 
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