Is this normal?

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Paxo

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Hi

I have a severe case of the puppy blues, but I feel, not without good reason.

I just want to know if what we’re experiencing is in any way normal, I’ve spoken to friends with dogs and things seem very different.

Our puppy (a lovely bouvier) is just over 10 weeks old and we’ve had her for 2 weeks. She was vet checked by the breeder and then I took her to the vet here, all seems fine. However, she still won’t eat normally – she has about 1 of her 3 meals a day (exactly same food as at breeder). She won’t settle at night – my husband sleeps on the kitchen floor, but even that isn’t enough – there is a baby gate in between them. She is very unsure of her crate, though we’ve been doing lots of training with it, so we don’t lock her in it at night – just in the utility room, though the crate is there. My husband encourages her into it throughout the night as she cries and wakes up, but with very short-lived success. She won’t be left to play or sleep on her own (behind the baby gate) during the day, she cries and barks and pants and paces and drinks water even when she can see us in the kitchen.

She is incredibly anxious in the car and this is getting worse. Vomiting and pooing within a few minutes and constantly salivating. This is doubly bad as it means that we can’t take her on the school run or anywhere to socialise her as she covers herself in it.

She is also proving poor on the housetraining front and today bolted back to the house to go inside! I guess this is possibly to do with feeding – she eats so little so nothing happens immediately after like it normally does. It can take hours. Likewise, if she’s anxious she will just pee.

We spoke to a behaviourist today who I hope we’ll be able to book to come round, she said that as she’d had a traumatic journey to get to us (a long ferry trip) and that if she’d never been crated before (which she hadn’t) then this could have been a trigger for this behaviour and that it might have a lasting impact.

Is this normal puppy behaviour? It really doesn’t seem it (though its been a very long time since I’ve had a puppy) and we’re seriously wondering whether she should go back to the breeder. If it were just me and my husband, we’d probably persevere, but we have 3 children and she can be a bit barky at them, and having what appears to be an extremely anxious dog seems possibly like a disaster waiting to happen. Though she is good natured in general and easy to train to commands and has already learnt bite inhibition to an extent.

Any suggestions? Many thanks.
 
Poor love, she does sound very stressed but you may be expecting a little too much from her after just two weeks.
Is it a noisy/active household? It's really important for you guys to remain calm and businesslike too to help settle her, although I can imagine that won't be easy.
To be honest with the journey that she's had I wouldn't worry too much about formal training and commands. Most of the people I know who bring pups into the country after a long period of travel don't do anything with them for at least a week while they settle in.
Just let her eat and sleep and put her out regularly.
What is her set-up in the car?
I'd make sure any crate or car carrier is covered, not just a wire cage.

Wherabouts are you and what country did she come from, if you don't mind me asking? And was she booked from birth? A good breeder would usually try and prepare and acclimatise a pup for such a long journey, crates and so on. Did she come via courier?
 
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I would have her sleeping in the bedroom (in the Crate)
I ended up doing this with my current puppy. She really was so distressed at being left (even with 2 other dogs next to her) in the crate, she spent a night on the bed, then in the care next to the bed and over time we moved the crate to the room we were her to be in.
As for toileting someone need to take her out on a lead, stay calm and quiet until she toilets and then quietly tell her she is a good girl. They don't know that toileting outside is the correct thing to do unless you teach them.
As for the nerves and being spooky, it is early days and you need to protect my puppy from being over faced and scored by things including your own children.
If you are not committed or able to provide what she needs then maybe she is not the right dog for you.
 
I agree with CC and Twiggy that you might be expecting an awful lot of a baby puppy - she needs a calm, quiet, relaxed environment where she isn’t pressurised into having to face things she will find scary (including children!)

I really don’t think you need a behaviourist, she is just being a puppy - all the things I was going to suggest have already been said, so follow those ideas and she should settle down.

I am concerned that you have tried to teach her “bite inhibition” at only 10 weeks old - she is a puppy, they play like that, you can start introducing some parameters if she gets too bitey or nasty about it
 
She doesn’t need to be going anywhere at 10 weeks (is she even fully vaccinated?). Puppies will vomit when travelling initially, mine certainly did. But the toileting is probably a sign of anxiety.

The ferry trip may well have caused some real anxieties, especially regarding the crate. Why not ditch it and just get her a nice bed instead?

If she doesn’t like her food do some research and change it. What are you currently feeding?

Toilet training is hard work...

You guys need to step back a bit, look at things from the puppy’s perspective and perhaps be a little more understanding of the upheaval she’s endured.
 
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I think it is very normal a few weeks in to panic! You have let yourself in for a lot of work. Your puppy sounds completely normal to me. Think about when your kids were new born babies. I know it’s a dog and not a human, but at 10 weeks they have so much to learn and need comfort. You have already been given plenty of tips and I don’t have many as I have got older dogs as rescues (although one had a hard time settling at night and needed house training aged 2)

Just breath! Of you really think you’ve made a mistake then contact the breeder ASAP as then the puppy should be easy to rehome with no lasting damage. But if you think all the hard work will be worth it for a lovely family dog (what breed is it by the way?) then just take some deep breaths and take it Day by day. Depending on your children’s ages they can calmly get involved as well, such as being in toilet duty!
 
Poor puppy - You have bought a breed of dog that does need some experience and knowledge and they CAN make fantastic family dogs but......2 weeks in after a long and very possibly horrendous journey you are already considering returning her, consulting behaviorists, wanting her out and about in the car fitting in with your needs rather than adjusting your life to her needs until she is old enough to slot into the family routine ?

If at this very early stage you are already not commited to the tough and demanding job of rearing a puppy I would suggest contact a reputable breed rescue and give the poor pup a decent chance of a new home with someone who does have the time and patience and knowledge. Perhaps get a hamster next time?
 
I'm guessing the ferry trip has been within the UK as at 10 weeks she couldnt have come from Europe or vice versa. I do agree that you are expecting a bit much of her, I am lucky that my breed generally house trains very quickly but some breeds can take a long time to get the idea and it does need a lot of patience and perseverance. Feed wise, nearly all puppies seem to go off their food or get fussy in a new home, they no longer have competition and everything is very strange. I am sure not everyone will agree but I always try and travel pups or their first few journeys on someones lap which seems to make a big difference with travel sickness, could you perhaps do a few journeys like this before she gets too big 10 weeks does seem a bit young to be getting a behaviourist involved, perhaps contact the breeder and ask for their advice.
 
amymay said:
Surely the up goes back to the breeder, not rescue???
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My suggestion to contact the appropriate breed rescue (within Uk) was to save the pup from being subjected to anymore lengthy sea journeys etc. as would be the case if the pup's owner does follow through with her comment about returning to the breeder. Damage limitation for the pup's well being was my thoughts.
 
Please don't send the puppy back to the breeder, the poor thing really doesn't need another long journey. Others have given you good advice, personally I think you're expecting far too much from her, she sounds very stressed. Build up to her being left alone it's a big deal when she doesn't know where she is.
 
MrsJingle said:
My suggestion to contact the appropriate breed rescue (within Uk) was to save the pup from being subjected to anymore lengthy sea journeys etc. as would be the case if the pup's owner does follow through with her comment about returning to the breeder. Damage limitation for the pup's well being was my thoughts.
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I could be wrong but I think this pup must have been bought within the UK (presuming the OP is in the UK) as a puppy cannot travel to or from mainland Europe at 10 weeks old.
 
Oh and sorry but now I’ve read your post again, please don’t cart the poor puppy around on the school run just yet. I understand you want her to be socialised, but it is far too soon to be doing that with her, and personally I don’t think it’s a good way of socialising a dog at all
 
amymay said:
Presumably the pup was sold under contract, so it would have to go back, MrsJingle...
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Good point I hadnt thought of that.


"I could be wrong but I think this pup must have been bought within the UK (presuming the OP is in the UK) as a puppy cannot travel to or from mainland Europe at 10 weeks old."

Murphy'sMinder the OP states that the pup had a long ferry trip - I do hope this isnt yet another instance of pups being shipped from southern Ireland via Northern Ireland and onto Uk mainland...illegally
 
MrsJingle said:
Good point I hadnt thought of that.


"I could be wrong but I think this pup must have been bought within the UK (presuming the OP is in the UK) as a puppy cannot travel to or from mainland Europe at 10 weeks old."

Murphy'sMinder the OP states that the pup had a long ferry trip - I do hope this isnt yet another instance of pups being shipped from southern Ireland via Northern Ireland and onto Uk mainland...illegally
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Yes I saw that, which is puzzling, and the Ireland thing did cross my mind, but the pup certainly shouldn't have travelled from Europe at that age. Hopefully OP will clarify exactly where the pup has travelled from/to, I did wonder about the Scottish Isles.
 
Rabies jab at 12 weeks then 21 days to travel to UK which I would assume rules out journey from Europe to UK (this being a mainly UK-centric forum)? No vet would have approved anything else surely.

The OP has had the pup for two weeks so it was eight weeks at point of travel.

In fairness to OP, it's their first post, they have said it's been a while since they had a dog, maybe their last dog was one of those that slotted seamlessly in with family life. I wasn't expecting my own dog to stress out and drop weight on his first ferry trip a few years back but there you go.
Sometimes it takes someone else to point out the blindingly obvious and there's been some good advice.
 
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Is it still half term over there in the UK by any chance? Thinking about this, first post on a horse forum about problems with a newly acquired puppy? Surely your first instinct looking for advise would be to join a dog related forum? I know we have some great experience and owners in the dog section but it isn't the most obvious choice of forum surely?
 
OP you have been given lots of advice so far, I would also agree that 2 weeks is nothing. She is very very young still, and I feel that you are trying to do too much too quickly and are over facing your puppy who has been torn away from her mum and siblings and subjected to a long ferry journey. And is now in a strange home, all alone with possibly lots of noisy stuff going on (children).

Some dogs are easier than others. My collie was a delight as a pup and didn't put a foot wrong. But some pups are more sensitive than others and require a bit more work. Have the crate in the bedroom, then gradually move further away over nights/weeks however long it takes for her to be happy. Toilet train outside on a lead, so she can't run back to the house. When she toilets, reward her. Being sick in the car is normal. She needs gradual training to car journeys. Starting with just being in the car not moving, then 2 mins down the road, then 5-10 mins etc etc. Go back to basics and go slow with her. Don't worry too much about teaching commands until you have the basics in place and a happy pup. Look in to adaptil/pet remedy. Change her food gradually.
 
Thanks for helpful responses. But good lord, I wasn't expecting the vitriol and snipes, I don't use forums. Perhaps people are right and we're expecting too much. However, something feels not right. My husband has been sleeping on the floor right next to her for over 2 weeks and she wakes and cries for long periods of time throughout the night even though he is with her. She eats not quite one meal of 3 despite having exactly the same food as at the breeder. Won't touch the other two. We are seriously worried. My husband works from home, I don't work, someone is here all the time.
 
Paxo, all of these things are typical stress responses in dogs - the spontaneous toileting, the crying/not sleeping and the going off her food. Have you contacted the breeder at all? If you are worried that it is something medical, please contact a vet, if you have not already.
The early weeks of a puppy's life are crucial in how they develop - look up the term 'imprinting' - what they learn in this period can last a lifetime, for good or ill.
I know people who have brought puppies from the continent, and usually the breeder or a nominated person is paid to feed, look after and socialise the pup until it is fit to travel (see above, 12 weeks plus 21 days at least in the case of Europe to UK). Done right, you have a well adjusted dog who will grow into a pleasant adult, done wrong and you can have a basket case, and I've seen both - so, it is so important to instil the right things during this period.
If you think about it, she travelled a long/traumatic journey (on her own?) at eight weeks and in two weeks is already expected to be clean in the house, eating all her meals, happy in the car, know commands, be calm around children and learn bite inhibition.
The reason I asked about from where and to she travelled and in what manner will help inform answers, rather than being nosy. Certain carriers and couriers are better than others.

Also, it can be incredibly frustrating for some dogs to see someone and not be able to get to them (through the crate or a stair gate etc). We might think we are doing the right thing by being beside them and so they can see us and feel comforted by us, but that's not the way all dogs think about it. Sometimes it is better that there is a black and white, we are there/accessible or not, not being the time for quietness and sleep.
 
Paxo said:
Thanks for helpful responses. But good lord, I wasn't expecting the vitriol and snipes, I don't use forums. Perhaps people are right and we're expecting too much. However, something feels not right. My husband has been sleeping on the floor right next to her for over 2 weeks and she wakes and cries for long periods of time throughout the night even though he is with her. She eats not quite one meal of 3 despite having exactly the same food as at the breeder. Won't touch the other two. We are seriously worried. My husband works from home, I don't work, someone is here all the time.
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I think you may be expecting a little too much from a stressed puppy, however on the eating front we had similar. My GSD wouldn't eat the breeder's food when he arrived. He had one meal and then refused it. He was very very difficult to get to eat. He had only travelled a 2 hour car journey. The eating difficulty carried on and he never really had as much as he should have although he did grow very well. We tried everything but in the end at around 12 weeks he came to a full stop and after a day of no food we went to the vet who diagnosed a stomach infectionm gave him antibiotics and promax. If that hadn't worked we would have had to take 3 days of poo samples to the vet for analysis to find out specifically what was wrong. After that he started to improve. No one knew why he had had a problem.
As for the travelling my earlier bitch was like yours, throwing up and salivating. She hated travelling. We finally solved the problem by putting her under our feet in the passenger foot well. She couldn't see out and this worked.

If I was in your position I would take to the vets just to double check there are no gut issues which could be causing pain and upsetting her. I wouldn't leave the not eating any longer on such a young dog.
 
I did take her back to the vet, Levrier, they suggested the behaviourist.

Thanks Corvus. She travelled with the breeder. No - I'm not expecting her to know commands, be house trained bite inhibition, etc. I was just pointing out the good things she likes do when she's happy and not anxious - lots of praise, wagging of tails, bits of liver (which is the one treat she will eat). She likes this part of our relationship. But yes, that's what I'm worried about - that for some reason something went wrong for her and we have a basket case. I hope we don't have one of those. Will try what you suggest Corvus and perhaps invite the husband back into the marital bed tonight.
 
She's still young and still in her learning period so hopefully there won't be any lasting damage if you put your thinking cap on. Nerves and stress levels can also come from genetics/heritage as well - some dogs are just naturally bombproof from nature.

Just be careful with liver - small amounts are OK but large amounts can be toxic - might explain some of the dietary issues?
 
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