Is this really a horse issue that needs a big money campaign?

[Saucisson]

I know, I know, I shouldn't be reading the Daily Silly (I did like Katy Perry's dress though ).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1344614/Lea-Michele-joins-forces-PETA-campaign-New-Yorks-horse-drawn-carriages.html

Are there not bigger equine welfare issues in the world than this? I don't know a lot about how these horses are kept but I bet it's a lot better than taxi horses in Mumbai or brick kiln donkeys.

After reading the couple of horrible news items today about abandoned horses in the UK, do NYC carriage horses really suffer that much (the driver in the picture looks pretty chilly to me an all )

Of course it is PETA and they are going to more interested in their "backyard". I'm just not sure that the sad looking horse gazing out of the picture with no background was actually any worse of than many horses. His box might be amazing!

What are your thoughts?

 

[jinglejoys]

So no Police horses then and people who live in Cities can't have horses? When they have finished with equines they'll start on dogs but thats PETA for you :

 

[andraste]

I think they looked happy and in good condition on the whole. The only bit that weirded me out was that horse climbing the stairs. Each to their own though and it wasn't being beaten to make it climb them or anything.

Loved that 'undercover' style footage of the grey. I presume we were meant to be appalled by the stable stains. PETA would implode if they saw my boy after a night of using a poo pillow (again).

 

[Paint Me Proud]

i dont believe all of that to be honest but i think PETA are a bit OTT at times.

Here's a photo i took last easter - horses didnt look in too bad condition but i admit some did look a little tired

 

[Saucisson]

I got a bit cross to be honest. The problem is that with PETA money behind it it's now going to the British tabloids (who are able to bring real problems to the forefront of the public mindset and have done in the past).

I really hope that tonnes of money doesn't get diverted to these "desperate creatures" and away from more needy issues both in Europe and the US (live horse transport as an example that really grates with me as horse is most definitely on the menu here).

I used to work with a nice lass whose brother worked on these carriages and on the helicopter flights in NYC. I do hope he wasn't so cruel......

 

[Paint Me Proud]

i forgot to add that what they dont mention is that the horses are regularly inspected by the NY animal police (with full police powers) and any found to be unwell, lame etc are sent back to the stables and the vendors cant afford to miss a day of work so they keep them in good condition. Each horse has a brand on their hoof too so they can keep accurate records of them all.

 

[Saucisson]

i forgot to add that what they dont mention is that the horses are regularly inspected by the NY animal police (with full police powers) and any found to be unwell, lame etc are sent back to the stables and the vendors cant afford to miss a day of work so they keep them in good condition. Each horse has a brand on their hoof too so they can keep accurate records of them all.

Ah, just what I thought. I really can't imagine that New Yorkers would have the stomach for manky, half-straved horses wandering around the streets.

I admit, I did go on one of these carriage rides in Amsterdam and it was horrible, BMWs cutting up the horse, everyone all impatient etc I wouldn't do it again. However, I don;t think it's the worst fate that can befall a horse????

 

[indiat]

I acutally think the carriage horses in Dublin are in a far worse state and I don't think any regular checks are done (but correct me if I am wrong). I lived there for 10 years and I would see beautiful animals pulling a fancy carriage who were obviously well cared for, to some pretty mangy, half starved looking animals pulling glorified carts. The latter seemed to work terrible long hours during the summer. I would see them on my way into work and on one friday night spotted a horse I saw that morning being cantered around St Stephen's Green at 2am for the entertainment of some drunken passengers. The horses in NY never struck me that way and there were quite a few carriage horses in Seville I would have liked to smuggle back through duty free. Some people cannot grasp the fact that some animals are their owners livelihood - this does not automatically mean they are mistreated or suffering.

 

[andraste]

Each horse has a brand on their hoof too so they can keep accurate records of them all.

On a completely unrelated note, isn't this a bizarre place to have a brand? I always thought that a horse's hoof regrew entirely in approximately a year. Do they just have to keep re-branding them?

 

[team barney]

Peta kills a massive percentage of the pets that go through it's headquarters...

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

 

[Paint Me Proud]

On a completely unrelated note, isn't this a bizarre place to have a brand? I always thought that a horse's hoof regrew entirely in approximately a year. Do they just have to keep re-branding them?

I would assume so but perhaps they brand another hoof before to first brand outgrows.

 

[touchstone]

I will freely admit that there are worse things that go on, but I do think that things need to be improved for these horses, as I understand it the NYPD transfer the responsibility for inspections to the ASPCA, who only have 20 humane law enforcement officers.

This vid shows a horse that shouldn't be working imho:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqldT5wmsuc&feature=related

 

[Willow1306]

I personally was not very impressed with the condition of the NYC carriage horses on either occassion which I visited the city. They were, on the whole, underweight, out of condition, tired with ill fitting tack and terrible feet.

I don't have a problem with there being horse and carriages in NYC - Central Park is lovely, and a carriage ride around it is no doubt a great experience - however I do have a problem with the current welfare standards.

On the other hand, no, I don't think the welfare issues I witnessed amongst the NYC horses is half as serious as other problems both closer to home and in countries further afield. Having been to Marrakech and witnessed the horse welfare over there, I think that educating the owners across there deserves more immediate time and attention etc. Similarly, we need to keep campaigning against live horse transport to slaughter. And as i've started now, the massive problem of unwanted horses and consequential live export to slaughter in Mexican and Canadian slaughter plants of American horses.

 

[Saucisson]

Some people cannot grasp the fact that some animals are their owners livelihood - this does not automatically mean they are mistreated or suffering.

You are so right! Racehorses aren't kept like pet "Bob the cob" (example, cob owners no offence but you do very much love them and for good reason )but they have all that they actually need and more (on the whole I'm sure). I couldn't bear the thought of selling my horse but OH is a semi-pro and is of quite a different opinion now we've had offers in. But, for me, a horse for lesiure is really a luxury - and good for those people who can lavish the best on their horse, I really do salute you as an example set to all.

However, the sad fact of life is that the vast majority of horses of the world have to work for a living. Surely, the best we can do is to increase education and set examples? (if money is no object ).

 

[Quadro]

Horses dont need to lie down to sleep..............................they are prey animals afterall!
Q

 

[Saucisson]

I will freely admit that there are worse things that go on, but I do think that things need to be improved for these horses, as I understand it the NYPD transfer the responsibility for inspections to the ASPCA, who only have 20 humane law enforcement officers.

This vid shows a horse that shouldn't be working imho:- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqldT5wmsuc&feature=related

I hate to be Devil's Advocate but there is nothing in that vid that convinces me that this isn't an unpleasant set-up using a very sad looking horse to publicise the plight of these horses.

Am I too cynical?

 

[indiat]

Horses dont need to lie down to sleep..............................they are prey animals afterall!
Q

I always thought that was true but then I read somewhere that they DO need to lie down for deep REM sleep? Don't ask me where (but it wasn't the daily mail ).

 

[indiat]

I hate to be Devil's Advocate but there is nothing in that vid that convinces me that this isn't an unpleasant set-up using a very sad looking horse to publicise the plight of these horses.

Am I too cynical?

Perish the thought!

 

[touchstone]

I hate to be Devil's Advocate but there is nothing in that vid that convinces me that this isn't an unpleasant set-up using a very sad looking horse to publicise the plight of these horses.

Am I too cynical?

Actually looking at it again, it doesn't look as bad as I intially thought, the flexion on the fetlock joint didn't look right, but when he shifts his weight it doesn't look as bad. I still hold to the view that the conditions should be improved though, but agree that there are worse things to focus on.

 

[Saucisson]

I always thought that was true but then I read somewhere that they DO need to lie down for deep REM sleep? Don't ask me where (but it wasn't the daily mail ).

Daily Silly aint so reliable I know but if your only access to the civilised world is Belgian TV, Daily Silly aint so bad

OH's mare is never caught down (only when she had bad colic - not pleasant). My Silly Boy goes straight down when he has trapped wind and grunts and moans and scares the life out of me - until he farts......

I'm not so sure those boxes weren't big enough - maybe with a good view an all?

 

[amage]

I can categorically say that these horses do not work in harsh weather conditions. We were there a few years ago and had booked a carriage ride in advance. Our ride got cancelled on the day as it was too cold!

 

[Saucisson]

I can categorically say that these horses do not work in harsh weather conditions. We were there a few years ago and had booked a carriage ride in advance. Our ride got cancelled on the day as it was too cold!

nice 1! i really do hope these horses have a reasonable life