Is this the norm nowsays

[Crugeran Celt]

Most yards around me have minimal turnout over winter, not something I would like for mine as they choose to stay out 24/7, they have access to their stables but don't come in just proving that horses prefer to be out. I can understand why yards do it but ground does recover well in the spring .

 

[siennamum]

I find it a bit unfair that everyone blames the livery yard manager for having too many horses because they are so greedy. How exactly are they supposed to make any money, it may be possible to run a tidy yard with high standards at a high livery rate. That would suit a minority of people.

The YM doesn't actually force people to keep their horses with them. Horse owners chose to do so.

I offer 24/365 turnout. Get constant moaning all Winter about how muddy it is and how there is no grass.
That's 8 horses on 30 acres.
People want to turn their horses out 24/7 in my experience because they don't want to muck them out daily or pay for hay.

 

[pippixox]

it does seem the norm, I think like some have already said, due to lots of horses on not enough land- at least not enough to live out on. but they probably cant afford to have less .
the yard across the road from me decided to literally half numbers after the last, very very wet winter. but they have a lot of income from subsidies on their farm land, the livery is not vital. they have liveries that like perfect little paddock. at least with reduced numbers they now rotate, and it is ex-cattle, very rich in a small area.
I have 5 (4 mine) on about 15 acres. now that summer is here they are almost out 24-7, except they come into a barn when it is very hot or to be worked. However, it is next to a river and gets very boggy in the winter. It is amazing how it recovers, but I do restrict turn out, October-march in part as my boy has done a tendon in the past and is arthritic so he twists and injures himself in deep mud. but also we rent land that the landlord gets money for not poaching. If we poach the land too much in the winter he could loose his grant, so we have to be careful.
when in my horses are in together in a barn, so they can groom and socialize as if they are in just a very small field

 

[Deltaflyer]

I'm lucky in that I keep my horse on a yard with all year round turnout AND grazing. It's a large 500 acre place. However, round where I live many pockets of land which used to be rented out to horse people have been sold to developers and are now housing estates. The horses who were kept in these yards have had to go somewhere.

My previous yard had all year turnout but too many teeny paddocks due to the ratio of horses to acreage. It was mainly a competition yard so that wasn't too much of an issue. Last time I visited though they have put up boxes on every available place they could so have far more horses there than they did when I was there. One of the reasons I chose no to go back there when I returned to horse ownership.

I think in many cases it's a case of supply verses high demand caused by overcrowding which in turn is caused by overdevelopment of land.

 

[PeterNatt]

Bare agricultural land is now rented out at £180 per acre - that is £3.50 per week. Add to that the cost of putting it down to grass, fencing and land maintenance and one can work out what the rental should be for equestrian land just to break even. i.e to fence a 1 acre field properly with post and rail fencing and Equi-fencing would probably cost about £8,000.00. Maintaning the land will cost a good £250 per acre per year so it all mounts up. If one has clay soil one needs to factor in the cost of installing decent drainage and that could be a capital outlay of another £5,000.00. The ideal situation is to have about 2 -3 acres per horse so that the Winter fields can be re-seeded and rested in the Spring Summer months and also allow for a bit of rotation to prevent the ground going sour and break the worm cycle.

 

[Jules_F]

I would never keep a horse in 24/7. I am shocked by how many people think it is ok. We turn ours out for summer and stable them at night in the winter. I would rather not have a horse than keep one in a stable all the time. It is not natural for them and I believe that it is unkind unless it is required for rehabilitation.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I find it a bit unfair that everyone blames the livery yard manager for having too many horses because they are so greedy. How exactly are they supposed to make any money, it may be possible to run a tidy yard with high standards at a high livery rate. That would suit a minority of people.

The YM doesn't actually force people to keep their horses with them. Horse owners chose to do so.

I offer 24/365 turnout. Get constant moaning all Winter about how muddy it is and how there is no grass.
That's 8 horses on 30 acres.
People want to turn their horses out 24/7 in my experience because they don't want to muck them out daily or pay for hay.

I wouldn't moan about muddy fields, parts of mine get into a terrible state but I don't leave my horses out because it makes my life easier I do it because even when they can walk in and out of their stables to the fields they choose to stay out 24/7 and are far more likely to use their stables in the summer months to get out of sun and avoid the flies. It is purely their decision not mine so not being lazy just giving the horses a choice and I think you will find that most people who own their own land say the same but we have that choice where as a livery owner has to do the best for all their clients and that can often mean restricted winter turnout. That's just something a horse owner has to accept if they need to keep a horse at livery.

 

[SO1]

Not normal in my area and I am near London so price of land is expensive too and I have been on a few yards as a sharer and also as an owner.

When I shared one yard had alternative days turnout and another had a winter turnout field but it was not used much as it was the only winter field for the whole yard and some people did not want to mix mares and geldings together. Both yards had 24/7 summer turnout.

I have been on 3 yards in the last 7 years as an owner, 2 had 24/7 all year turnout and the one I am on at the moment has all year turnout but they are on the same routine all year round so come in every night and the fields are rotated so plenty of grass all year round.

Maybe closing fields in the winter is more common in the North where the winter weather can be more challenging.

 

[laura_nash]

As long as horses have sufficient excercise and work they can adapt to being stabled very well, including without turnout. A horse is only in 24/7 if you don't take it out and exercise it.

I have known horses that were happy and sane with limited (weekend only) turnout, but they were in real work - 3 hours a day min. of mostly pretty intensive lessons. They also had a lot of stimulation during the day when not ridden, as it was an equine college and they were often involved in practical sessions or generally had students fussing around them. Not many private horse owners work their horse that much every day, especially in winter.

I personally would never keep my horse anywhere with limited turnout, even in the (unlikely) event I was able to guarantee to work him every day. The improvement I have seen in his feet and breathing with 24/7 turnout this winter (as opposed to 7 hours in winter previously) has been amazing.

 

[saddlesore]

At my yard horses can live out 24/7/365. I've sacrificed better facilities for this set up. At times I get frustrated about access to/quality of arena but I know my horse loves his life there.he runs in a herd of 20 in as many acres and they rotate regularly. Each to their own, but for me a happy horse is most if the battle

 

[spotty_pony]

It does seem to be pretty much the normal these days yes, although I do also know quite a few yards who still offer turnout all year round too but these tend to be the smaller yards, the one which aren't overstocked; either that or they have plenty of land - enough to use different fields for summer and winter grazing. Having kept my horses on livery yards with limited turnout during the winter, I can honestly say - never again! It puts on the pressure to make sure you exercise everyday and it's no good for horses mentally to be stuck in all of the time. Since my Appy was diagnosed with arthritis, I have sought out places to keep him and my other horse which offer year round turnout. I kept him on a farm last year and turnout was never limited, although the died was pretty boggy because it was shared with cows! Currently at a small private yard which also has year round turnout so hoping this winter will be better still - the ground at this yard isn't such thick clay either!

 

[marmalade76]

I find it a bit unfair that everyone blames the livery yard manager for having too many horses because they are so greedy. How exactly are they supposed to make any money, it may be possible to run a tidy yard with high standards at a high livery rate. That would suit a minority of people.

The YM doesn't actually force people to keep their horses with them. Horse owners chose to do so.

I offer 24/365 turnout. Get constant moaning all Winter about how muddy it is and how there is no grass.
That's 8 horses on 30 acres.
People want to turn their horses out 24/7 in my experience because they don't want to muck them out daily or pay for hay.

Yep, that's me, except I don't have to pay for hay 'cause my husband makes it and there's more than I'll ever use. Despite my limitless supply of hay, I have so much grass that I often don't need to feed any. Yes, the gateways get muddy but the rest is usually fine and when it gets too muddy/cut up and/or the grass runs out I just move them to a fresh field. BTW, we have 8 horses and a dozen sheep on 30 acres

 

[Baileybones]

I personally think the change in the winters we are getting is largely responsible. Several years ago ours would have gone out almost everyday during winter and if required hay would be put in the fields.
The last few years though have been incredibly wet and I can count the number of hard frosts on one hand. The last couple of years the horses have stayed in more and often for weeks on end.
I don't like it but we manage it and I'm afraid that unless something happens to bring back our cold winters this could become a reality for more and more yards :-(

 

[Baileybones]

Double posted

 

[Nativelover]

I think we can blame many reasons for this, and perhaps saying the YO are greedy was a bit harsh. However the YO's I've come across who severely restrict grazing simply refuse to pay out on any sort of maintenance of their land. No spraying, no fertilising, no fence fixing, no drainage. Yet they want fields that look like lawns, there's no harrowing or poo picking.
Perhaps it's all down to money, but at the end of the day this is a welfare issue that is blindly ignored, to a point it's become normal to keep horses this way. Hence why I truely believe licensing should be brought in to enforce regulation.

 

[JustMeThen]

I've never understood the whole thing about trashing fields. Ours go out all day in winter, ponies out 24/7 all year and some of the horses 24/7 in summer and although the fields don't look great come February, we roll/turbo/harrow in the spring and always have more grass than we need by April/May... and the fields aren't that big... I used to work at a riding school and livery yard which did the same, probably more horses than technically should have been on the amount of land, and it was the same situation.

 

[twiggy2]

People want to turn their horses out 24/7 in my experience because they don't want to muck them out daily or pay for hay.

I would like mine out in company 24/7 because it is a more natural way for them to be kept, when it is possible for them to be out in company 24/7 the field is poo picked daily and they are feed more hay when living out in winter than they would be when stood in a stable as they are moving more and more exposed to the weather and as a consequence they are burning more calories-don't tar us all with the same brush

 

[saddlesore]

People want to turn their horses out 24/7 in my experience because they don't want to muck them out daily or pay for hay.

Thats a sweeping statement! I like my horse out 24/7 though the majority of the year as he runs in a large field with company and shelter, living the most natural type of life I can give him. He comes in daily over the winter for supplementary haylage/feed and is kept in (and mucked out ) on the really rotten nights.

I don't understand why anyone WOULD want to muck out/pay for hay when you're at a yard with an abundance of grass.

 

[Annagain]

I don't understand why anyone WOULD want to muck out/pay for hay when you're at a yard with an abundance of grass.

This - although I'd add my horse's welfare is the number one consideration for me so it would only apply if it suited my horse. IF it were possible for him to live out 24/7 that would be my choice as it's where he's happiest. Yes it's easier for me too, but that's not part of the equation. He tolerates being in overnight in Winter as the yard rules dictate this, but if he could be out WITH plenty of hay he would be so much happier, he loves his field and is rarely waiting to come in, even when he's last out. There's nowhere decent round by me that allows 24/7 turnout and I love every other aspect of my yard so it's a compromise I'm willing to make. I manage it as best I can by bringing him in as late as possible and putting him out as early as possible and it seems to suit us.

Having them living out doesn't necessarily mean you save on hay, as I would be supplementing the grass in winter with hay if I was able to have him out. The extra poo picking would also probably be more work than mucking out his stable, considering he doesn't wee in it and doesn't poo in his bed. Mucking out takes me 2 minutes tops and I use very little bedding all winter so that's not a factor either.

 

[Christmas Crumpet]

Admittedly I am not on a yard with anyone else. We have 2 acres of of turnout on clay in the winter and another 1/2 acre in the summer divided into 3 paddocks. They are long and thin. I have 1 big horse and 1 mini on that along with a couple of lambs. I turn then out for nearly 12 hours a day in the winter and normally 24 7 in the summer except that my current horse would explode if he were out all the time so they are just out at night at the moment. We never run out of grass and I have just had to have the top field cut and the grass has gone next-door for silage.

Mine are calm and sensible because they are out every day without fail and they like being out grazing. Our neighbours would turn theirs out for an hour or two and then get them in and do the same again with another lot. The horses then went mad and churned up the fields like crazy. Too many horses for the amount of turnout.

My fields get very wet in the winter but they do recover. I wouldn't have any more horses than we do on that amount of land. We have mole drained the fields so drainage is a bit better. The gateways are hardcored too. We have just put in a 14 x 7 m concrete yard for the horse to be able to walk about when in but he doesn't really bother. He prefers sunbathing and sleeping!! However I wouldn't ever sacrifice turnout for the sake of the field getting trashed. OH is an agricultural contractor so can mend whatever damage is done. Happy horse is far more important to me - I think if a horse likes being out then there is no better way for them to relax and enjoy being a horse. Yards with no or limited turnout just wouldn't work for me.

 

[windand rain]

Having done both I can asssure you it takes far more effort to keep a horse out 24/7 than in 24/7. My fields are poo picked daily and look like lawns, the ponies are sleek and in great condition because they are fed properly, kept clean, breathe clean air and are kept safe. I have spend 5 hours today on field mainainence and it is not even my field. I dig out ragwort, lightly fetilise, weed kill bigger areas all at my own expense. I move fences and loook after the land like a well trimmed garden. I know I am lucky as we have sandy mud free soil and at the moment far too much grass.
It takes me 10 minutes to feed, hay, muck out and water a stable kept horse on straw so even twice a day that is far less time than tending the land. I walk miles criss crossing the field picking up poo and digging ragwort it is hard work. In winter the fields are still poo picked so I am out in all weathers and love it so you still wouldnt catch me stabling a horse if I could avoid it. It is also much more expensive in feed, hay and general care as you need good rugs need to be there to change them and so those that say we keep out 24/7 as it is cheap and easy are very wrong those that stable are the lazy ones cheapskates. (generalisation number 2)

 

[Cortez]

Not turning horses out, at any time of year, is only a welfare isssue if the horse doesn't get enough exercise. No horse should be kept locked up for 24hrs unless it is a medical necessity, but turnout is only one (and the least efficient) of many methods of exercise. I assume from reading this thread that most people do not have sufficient time to properly work their horses and thus use turn out for that purpose?

 

[marmalade76]

Not turning horses out, at any time of year, is only a welfare isssue if the horse doesn't get enough exercise. No horse should be kept locked up for 24hrs unless it is a medical necessity, but turnout is only one (and the least efficient) of many methods of exercise. I assume from reading this thread that most people do not have sufficient time to properly work their horses and thus use turn out for that purpose?

Yep, true for me, I can't ride every day and having them out on my hilly grazing certainly helps to keep them fit.

 

[Jules_F]

Not turning horses out, at any time of year, is only a welfare isssue if the horse doesn't get enough exercise. No horse should be kept locked up for 24hrs unless it is a medical necessity, but turnout is only one (and the least efficient) of many methods of exercise. I assume from reading this thread that most people do not have sufficient time to properly work their horses and thus use turn out for that purpose?[/QUOTEY

You assume wrong. Certainly in my case.
It may help a horse to stay sane if it is worked a lot but at the end of the day they are herd animals who deserve time to be out in as natural environment as possible just being a horse. You would not leave a dog in a crate 24/7 and say "oh it's fine, he gets a walk everyday."

 

[Goldenstar]

Not turning horses out, at any time of year, is only a welfare isssue if the horse doesn't get enough exercise. No horse should be kept locked up for 24hrs unless it is a medical necessity, but turnout is only one (and the least efficient) of many methods of exercise. I assume from reading this thread that most people do not have sufficient time to properly work their horses and thus use turn out for that purpose?

I think in winter many people don't ride every day because there's no daylight when they are able to be on the yard or exercising has to be a quick half hour when they can be free when there's daylight .
You can't keep a horse in those circumstances without turn out IMO it's just not fair.

 

[saddlesore]

To me a horse's existence doesn't revolve around exercise and serving a 'purpose'. I feel that they are a living being and deserve the best quality of life as a horse as we can give them, alongside being a working/hobby horse.

 

[Annagain]

I assume from reading this thread that most people do not have sufficient time to properly work their horses and thus use turn out for that purpose?

I think this is a tiny part of it. Yes I don't ride everyday. I work full time in a demanding job and can't find the time to ride every day very easily so turnout for exercise is a factor. However, even if I did manage to ride enough, I would still want him to be out for at least 10hrs a day for his mental wellbeing if nothing else.

Mine has been working up to being turned out after box rest over the last fortnight so I've had to ride every day. I can find the time if I have to- getting up even earlier and not seeing friends etc but if I had to choose, I'd rather not ride than not turn out.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Even if my horses were proper working horses (eg out logging for 8 hours + a day) I would still want them to be out with their mates for a while every day. Now maybe it isn't necessary as it wouldn't kill them to be not turned out after working that long, but it just doesn't settle well on my conscience. I love watching my horses interact with each other and from my observations I have concluded that being able to do so is very important to their mental wellbeing. Caring for both their mental and physical wellbeing is IMO, my duty as a horse owner.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

Turn out has nothing to do with working horses for me, turnout is their time to be a horse, in the company of other horses in as natural an environment as possible. Riding them is for my enjoyment and has nothing to do with keeping them fit or to relieve their boredom. Mine choose to stay out, they have access to the stables but stay out 24/7. I wouldn't want to keep my horses in at all but can understand why some people don't have this luxury.