Is this the right thing to do? RE draw reins

SuperCoblet

SuperCoblet

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Right, first of all, Gypsy is 11 and quite a strong chap. He's never been taught the ropes of schooling due to is past until I got him. I have done a few dressage tests on him, he moves like a dream, and we would get higher marks if he was rounder and went 'better'.

I school him as much as I can but he just doesn't 'get' it, with or without instructor. It's not me because I have worked on other horses who I have schooled and they understand, I just can't seem so make him 'understand' and I feel he needs a little more guidence.

Please don't jump on me, but I was thinking maybe in this case draw reins are the way foreward. I have used them before, and I will have my instructor with me.

Am I doing the right thing... without getting shot down please!

Thank you :)
 
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No reason why you shouldn't use draw reins on a loose setting to help him get the idea. It certainly worked with me and my mare while we were learning together. Sometimes we will start off with them during a lesson and then whip them off. She has improved no end in the way that you seem to want Gypsy too. She is very simialr to Gyps just a bigger version.
 
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Billie1007 said:
No reason why you shouldn't use side reins on a loose setting to help him get the idea. It certainly worked with me and my mare while we were learning together. Sometimes we will start off with them during a lesson and then whip them off. She has improved no end in the way that you seem to want Gypsy too. She is very simialr to Gyps just a bigger version.
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Tried that lunging and he just leans on the side reins, with the draw reins i can let them loose if he panics too.

ETA... I thought you weren't supposed to ride in side reins?
 
Ooo now maybe I am getting equipment mixed up.... I used these reins while having a few lunge lessons. Yes, I am an idiot - I used draw reins not side reins! Just looked at a picture of both! Sorry!
 
Not sure but I too have struggled with heavy/strong in front and a dressage marks still ask for him to be more soft/supple. For me lots of bending and transitions have helped him learn to lighten and carry himself in front, walk is now loads better, trot and canter depends on how tired him/me/both are!

For me draw reins wouldn't work as they would end up with him behind the verticle but still not in self carridge, which could be the same for your guy.

You have probably tried it already but if not then lots of transitions, turn on the quarters (in walk) and most importantly keeping hands light the instant he holds himself may help :) Sometimes these big cobs need reminding that they are supposed to carry their own heads ;)
 
Yes I would consider it and do use them them myself on older spoilt horses if I think it will help I have never had to use them on younger horses I work with only older ones.
The thing with draw riens is they can be used well in which case they guide a difficult horse to an easier way or badly where they pull down the head and fix it in which case they either won't solve the problem or will just give you a different set.
The most important thing when using them is to remember that you must learn to give the contact on them the horse ought not be a held or fixed position and they are not an alternative to riding forward in fact you may have to ride forward quite strongly at first.
I always use them the first times on a project with my trainer on the ground and if possible with mirrors so I see what I feel.
I would never use side riens they are turely fixed and you can't give them away in any circumstances .
The other thing you might consider is a bungee rien .
You will need to learn to ride well with two riens to use draw riens well so if you have not done so before put two pairs on your snaffle and practise .
You will need to be trained to use them I was taught in a formal situation how to approach it .
 
I agree with GS. This isn't about strapping his head down it is about giving a slight encouragement and showing him the way. Certainly worked no end with my girl. She is now starting to have a more natural carriage and beginning to work through.
 
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Without seeing you ride the horse its hard to say. My first port of call would be to ride long & low on a loose, if necessary, contact with one that pulls. They can't pull against what isn't there. Then work slowly, with time to develop the correct back muscles up into a more rounded outline. If a horse pulls or leans, draw reins or similar just block the forwards movement, encourage different pulling or leaning, or both. If however you literally mean he is very light & almost carrying himself & its just a finishing touch you need, then worth discussing with your instructor. But lack of roundness usually stems from the back & quarters, rather than the head alone.
 
littlelegs said:
Without seeing you ride the horse its hard to say. My first port of call would be to ride long & low on a loose, if necessary, contact with one that pulls. They can't pull against what isn't there. Then work slowly, with time to develop the correct back muscles up into a more rounded outline. If a horse pulls or leans, draw reins or similar just block the forwards movement, encourage different pulling or leaning, or both. If however you literally mean he is very light & almost carrying himself & its just a finishing touch you need, then worth discussing with your instructor. But lack of roundness usually stems from the back & quarters, rather than the head alone.
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If the horse leans on the draw rien it will only block the forward movement if you keep hold off it if you give a strong forward aid and give the draw rien they soon don't seek to use the rien as a prop.
They only block forward movement when used badly.
 
Phone!

Its head beyond the rider's control. They were not intended to put a horse into what we consider 'the correct' shape.

If your horse isn't working correctly up front, something is going wrong further back, either through his hindquarters or across his back. Draw reins may hide the problem but they will not fix it.

When you say your horse doesn't understand, what do you mean? How are you asking him to work correctly?

Personally I'd look for an instructor who understands basic horse anatomy and schooling, and go from there. They will be able to see where the tension is coming from, and I'm betting it's not the neck.
 
Munchkin said:
Phone!

Its head beyond the rider's control. They were not intended to put a horse into what we consider 'the correct' shape.

If your horse isn't working correctly up front, something is going wrong further back, either through his hindquarters or across his back. Draw reins may hide the problem but they will not fix it.

When you say your horse doesn't understand, what do you mean? How are you asking him to work correctly?

Personally I'd look for an instructor who understands basic horse anatomy and schooling, and go from there. They will be able to see where the tension is coming from, and I'm betting it's not the neck.
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This, exactly^^^^^^^^^

Try hill work, pole work and LOTS of transitions, e.g. 10 strides walk/10 strides trot, repeated over and over until he begins to lighten - it won't take long.
 
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That depends Goldenstar. If the horse isn't going well for whatever reason, then ime putting another possible barrier to forwards movement in place won't help. I see what you mean about if used correctly but if the horse is reluctant to go forwards & work through its back, having a contact to move forwards into has to come after the forwards is in place. I was thinking more about the horse itself backing off, rather than hands of steel making it back off if that makes sense?
 
I agree with Munchkin.

Please, please don't result to draw reins!

When I bought my lad, he had clearly been ridden in draw reins a lot! I was convinced the problem was in his neck. He was hollow and tense and quite a lot of the time his paces became choppy and quite frankly he was fighting against everything. Very reluctantly ;), I employed the help of an instructor, who I was convinced would not be able help me. She has a great understanding of the horses anatomy and by making very subtle changes to me (not him) I am beginning to have a horse that's beginning to relax and beginning to drop his nose - it was nothing to do with his neck!
 
littlelegs said:
That depends Goldenstar. If the horse isn't going well for whatever reason, then ime putting another possible barrier to forwards movement in place won't help. I see what you mean about if used correctly but if the horse is reluctant to go forwards & work through its back, having a contact to move forwards into has to come after the forwards is in place. I was thinking more about the horse itself backing off, rather than hands of steel making it back off if that makes sense?
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But then the draw rien is not the correct piece of kit in that situation they only help if they are the right thing at the right time used in the right way and that's the issue to often they are not, but that's not the fault of the draw rien it's the fault of the person using it.
 
I have a horse who was bought as a 3 yr old by a family member, she has been with us for 12 years she was properly broken and has been properly ridden in all the 10 years I've owned her. She is very capable of working properly BUT when she is unfit she loses balance quite easily which affects her confidence and the whole thing creates a spiral of negative behaviour/experiences. By using draw reins I can keep her 'contained' just that little bit more which helps her, I always use spurs to make sure she is sharp off my leg and the draw reins act as a safety net.
Draw reins are not the work of the devil if they suit your horse and they are used correctly.
 
Miss Bean said:
When I bought my lad, he had clearly been ridden in draw reins a lot! I was convinced the problem was in his neck. He was hollow and tense and quite a lot of the time his paces became choppy and quite frankly he was fighting against everything.
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I am really sorry but that is not the fault of the draw reins that is the fault of the person who let him go that way!
 
Agreed Goldenstar, that's what I meant in my first post, it depends entirely on what exactly ops horse is doing as to whether they are good/bad for improving.
 
Baggybreeches said:
I am really sorry but that is not the fault of the draw reins that is the fault of the person who let him go that way!
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agreed, it wasn't the fault of the draw reins probably the awful way in which they were used, but I strongly feel the OP should look at other options before resulting to draw reins. The OP says that her horse doesn't understand, obviously, I don't know the OP's back ground/experience but I think the bigger picture should be looked at first. Obviously if the OP's riding instructor has explored other avenues and feels that this is the best way forward...
 
Munchkin said:
Phone!

Its head beyond the rider's control. They were not intended to put a horse into what we consider 'the correct' shape.

If your horse isn't working correctly up front, something is going wrong further back, either through his hindquarters or across his back. Draw reins may hide the problem but they will not fix it.

When you say your horse doesn't understand, what do you mean? How are you asking him to work correctly?

Personally I'd look for an instructor who understands basic horse anatomy and schooling, and go from there. They will be able to see where the tension is coming from, and I'm betting it's not the neck.
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Absolutely agree. If the horse isn't working through correctly, you need to bring him more onto his hocks.

Transitions are your friend - lots, both direct and indirect, working him long and loose, but making sure he's pushing from behind. Circles and figures of eight are great for loosening those hind quarters, as is leg yield etc.

Through this, he will learn self carriage, and become more uphill; this is the key to being round in front IMO.

Draw reins have their place, but can be harsh, and restricting.
 
I don't believe draw reins are the work of the devil, and I'm personally more than happy to ride in them if I feel I need them.

However, draw reins are not designed to give a horse an instant outline, and any outline forced by draw reins will be incorrect, since correct work is not about setting the head in a pretty position. I don't think it would be advisable to use them, and I would reconsider your own "role" - it's all very well to say you can ride other horses in an "outline" but that doesn't mean that you're riding this horse in the correct manner to allow him and encourage him to work correctly. All horses are, to an extent, individual and need different forms of support and encouragement.


unrelatedly, Baggybreeches, I used to use draw reins sometimes to hold my cob together when unfit - he gets strung out and the draw reins just gave me an edge to coil him back up a bit. I don't think that's what the OP means though :cool:
 
Firstly, I have never once come across a horse that needs draw reins in order to make them understand how to work nice and round. There are a few horses (very few) that are not built in a way that they find it easy to flex at the jaw and poll. It is usually due to being too thick round the gullet. However, before trying draw reins, ask your instructor to school him. I firmly believe that no one can adequately teach someone if they have not ridden the horse themselves.

I would do lots of lunging work with him too, using the pessoa or de gouge or chambon at first and progressing to side reins. Once he is working consistently well over his back and onto a nice light contact, then start the ridden work again.
 
Wagtail said:
Firstly, I have never once come across a horse that needs draw reins in order to make them understand how to work nice and round. There are a few horses (very few) that are not built in a way that they find it easy to flex at the jaw and poll. It is usually due to being too thick round the gullet. However, before trying draw reins, ask your instructor to school him. I firmly believe that no one can adequately teach someone if they have not ridden the horse themselves.

I would do lots of lunging work with him too, using the pessoa or de gouge or chambon at first and progressing to side reins. Once he is working consistently well over his back and onto a nice light contact, then start the ridden work again.
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I would never put a Pessoa onto a stiff strong horse it will just brace against it and lean , a strong horse just gets stronger in a pessoa and usually picks up a 'lovely ' rhymic nose tilt and its is a devil of a job to get rid of .
 
Goldenstar said:
I would never put a Pessoa onto a stiff strong horse it will just brace against it and lean , a strong horse just gets stronger in a pessoa and usually picks up a 'lovely ' rhymic nose tilt and its is a devil of a job to get rid of .
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I have been using the pessoa for over ten years and have never encountered such a problem. The only problem I have had with it was with my horse that has kissing spines, he could not tolerate it. Post surgery he is fine. I used the pessoa regularly on a very heavy 17.2 horse that would lean on my hands. Using the pessoa actually helped lighten him up.
 
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