Is this the right thing to do with my youngster?

[Storminateacup]

Hi, well many of you know I had my ID/Cob Appy backed a few months ago, and after backing he stayed on with the trainer for approximately 11 weeks and did roadwork and some riding school work and a few days with the pony club seniors and got on fine, was a total star and a very good boy. The riding school even offered to buy him as they needed a big horse for their larger riders ( he is 16.2 and well built)! So I am delighted wiith all thats been done and only wish i could have stayed on at livery, but they just didn't have the space. I manage to ride him about 4 times and out on one hack, where he was exemplary.
Since then I have moved him home to MIL croft and he is idling in the field with my other horse, who incidently did a bit of RDA work for the same amount of time, and was adored by the riding school too! Now both of them are turned away for winter. They have a small 2 acre paddock ad lib hay, a fab huge field shelter and a daily feed. Apart from that they get a groom, get turned out in the big field (opposite) 4 days per week, and the youngster is doing a bit of ground handling work (NH stuff with me - in the interim before we get our 60 ft round pen up next spring) .

Trouble is I am worried he is bored. The other matter is that my farrier who seems to be good on teeth, thinks the youngster is more like 3 rising 4 , not 4 rising 5 (laterals shedding and no sign of tushes). I am inclined to agree as he is still having growth spurts. Latest one has seen his withers go up a further inch anda half so now he is wither high again, this must make him 16.3 hh. He is a big fellow!. Also on days he cannot go in the big field he "throws his toys out of the pram" and goes flying round the field bucking, fly bucking, and cavorting and snorting and is quite a nerve wracking sight.
We haven't done enough at the farm yet to make hacking him out an option atm, we have no where to keep tack yet or any school finished til spring and I am personally worn out with all the stress of owning two, losing my JRT last month and having a new puppy. I am wondering seriously if I am doing my youngster a dis-service by doing so little with him now, mostly due to the practical machinations of everything. I am aware that many folk would back and turn away til next spring anyway and this is what I was planning, he should be going to a western trainer then for 5 weeks.

So what do you all think? - am I doing the right thing?
Your advice opinions appreciated.

 

[Bosworth]

let him have the time of, he will thoroughly enjoy it. No need to feel you are doing him a dis- service. I have had to basically turn my horses away for a few months as simply have too much work on to actually ride them. they are happy enough being field ornaments. his bucking and playing are just exuberance and nothing more. My TB who is 12 will career round like a lunatic every day at 7.30 am and 4pm, just for the sheer fun of it. He will incite all the others to play as well. I know they are simply having fun and letting off steam, not telling me they are bored and need stimulating things to do.

 

[AmyMay]

If hes' that big and still growing - then a winter turned away will be good for him.

He's not bored - just young, healthy and happy.

But save your money - because you'll be sending him back to the 'breakers' in the spring to ride on for you.

 

[Storminateacup]

Thanks folks, I feel I am doing the right thing, but seeing him hoon about and getting a bit fiesty made me wonder if I should start trying to ride him, even though my heearts not in it with the weather and everything else. I just cannot be bothered to put myself through more stress now. Hopefully I will get my motivation back in spring and summer when we may have got someway towards trying to live at the croft (caravan or rented house nearby) , I am commuting a 30 mile round trip for now and its all very demoralising.
If he is still growing, then with his breeding he is not going to mature til he is about 7, but I am getting friends saying, he should be out hunting and doing a job, so much conflicting views. Also I feel that many people think he is too much horse for me, yet he is quite a lazy dobbin to ride and certainly he is bold and calm. Not bothered by tattie tractor steaming past when I rode him, so I can only imagine he will be a lovely big steady fellow when matured, like most IDs and Id x that I ve known in the past.

 

[Daisy11]

The amount of work given , he probley would benefit from a rest
And bring him back into work next spring

 

[Storminateacup]

How much do you do when you turn your horses away for winter?
Do you still groom daily, pick out feet, do basic ground wok or just nothing at all, leave them alone apart from daily checking and feeding and watering?

 

[Spyda]

Sorry - duplicate post

 

[Spyda]

Mine's the same age as yours then, if your farrier's guestimate is correct. Mine's big too, but still unbacked. She's just bumming about out at grass, with another youngster ATM; where she's been for the past 2 years. Mine's always been quite sharp, stressy and rather a handful and because she's so tall people kept telling me that I should be 'doing something with her' - even when she was just rising 2. I can't say it's made any difference in the long run, leaving her. She's maturing mentally and is far more co-operative now she's rising four. I'm not at all worried she'll be more difficult to work with, after another winter off. Mine still throws the occasional wobbly if she's feeling stressy and doesn't get her own way (usually when she's coming into season) but I see it as better that she burns off her frustrations safely whilst out with her friend. When I do handle her I make sure I'm firm and take no nonsence, but as these periods of handling are regular but relatively short, I rarely experience any trouble from her and she's not "learning" any bad behaviours.

That said, some days I'll leave her a while if I arrive at the yard and she's leaping about, looking wild-eyed in the field. Chances are something's set her off just before I've arrived and I can't see the point in little me tackling her when she's gotten herself into a lather, when after half an hour or so she'll have gotten over it and be back to her normal rational self. I'd rather deal with her when she's calm and we're most likely to have a positive outcome from the experience.

There were more of these times when she was younger. When I have had to catch her up when she's in the middle of a wobbly, I use a Stephen's Controller Halter on her. I'm only 5'1" and she's 16.3 - with a neck like a flipping giraffe when she's excited - and the Stephen's has been a God send in keeping us both safe as she's grown up.

 

[flyingfeet]

Thanks folks, I feel I am doing the right thing, but seeing him hoon about and getting a bit fiesty made me wonder if I should start trying to ride him, even though my heearts not in it with the weather and everything else.

Worst thing you could do is try and ride now, if he scares you, it may set his training back and youngsters need consistency and given the current weather I really wouldn't worry!

He is big so let him grow and develop, as will do him more good than hammering him like some people do with youngsters.

Also being fiesty doesn't mean they are bored, mine play 'bite face' all the time and hoon about. I'd be a bit concerned if they didn't

 

[Storminateacup]

I use a rope headcollar, NH style but he does leap about and I worry he will jump on me, he leaps over the muddy bit at the bottom of the field gate when he has to cross it. He is very strong, but has never got away fro me in this, it the bargyness I worry about, but hopeful I will have my "carrot" stick in a day or two and I can wave him back more effectively than with my old fishing rod with a plastic bag on it - Not bothered by plastic bag!!!

 

[AmyMay]

but hopeful I will have my "carrot" stick in a day or two and I can wave him back more effectively

Head, desk, thud.......................

 

[Spyda]

Head, desk, thud.......................

 

[honetpot]

Eek!
No time to wait for carrot stick, get a long rope/lunge line and do what ever to get your personal space.

 

[smellsofhorse]

If he is younger than you thought and still having growth spurts then some time off to allow him to mature will be good.

Hopefully he will settled and learn he cant go in the big field everyday!

What about some in hand walking to get him out and about?

 

[Storminateacup]

Eek!
No time to wait for carrot stick, get a long rope/lunge line and do what ever to get your personal space.

Head, desk, thud.......................

OHHHHH PLEASE DONT START ALL THIS AGAIN!!!!!! - I have a piece of fibreglass fishing rod which is very effective but there is something really good about a well balanced quality "carrot stick" with a good heavy savvy string on it that delivers the power and satisfying swish without the whippyness of a schooling whip or the inconvenience of a a lunge whip, plus a lunge line is TOOO long I find a 12ft line far more manageable.
Dont knock it til you've tried one!!

 

[AmyMay]

I have a piece of fibreglass fishing rod which is very effective

I'm sure it is. But one of the reasons you sent the horse away in the first place was because you were finding him difficult to manage. So either your method or technique is not working.

 

[Storminateacup]

I'm sure it is. But one of the reasons you sent the horse away in the first place was because you were finding him difficult to manage. So either your method or technique is not working.

I find your tone condescending and rude.

I sent him away to be backed, actually, and he has been very nicely , and I have ridden him and he is an angel. But he is a big lump and can be pushy. I am fully aware I could give him a whacking and perfectly capable of doing so,! however, I would rather approach the matter subtly and with a bit of tact, as I do not want to spoil my relationship with him. I have owned an ID stallion in the past and have seen what being heavy handed does to them.(not by me may I add) It may work intially when they are young but the resentment and distrust it fosters comes out late. That paricular stallion, now gelded, still unpredictibly drops a shoulder and bucks its rider off.
Many people send there horse away for backing. Most top riders too. That is not an admission of failure but a practical and necessary decision made by many owners of young horses!!!!

 

[Chavhorse]

When I moved my bargy rude hulking warmblood X to a livery yard owned by my Western trainer he took one look said no way am I having a rude horse that drags people around here, and proceeded to insist that any pulling was met with a "hey" and a back up until his eye was again just in front of my shoulder (so you can see the horses expression, worried, calm, evil etc) we spent a lot of hours backing up!

Eventually he got it walk calmly next to the person leading you and you don't have to back up all the time (he is a WBX it took a while

After we mastered this the next step was the “automatic whoa” i.e. I say whoa you stop with your arse tucked under you as soon as I think whoa! (again a lot of hours of backing up) but he got it

Next step was walk on your own four feet you are a big boy and I do not need to hold onto your head you can do that, you can guess what is coming right as soon as he leans on you whoa and back up, as well as me having a session with YO's quarter horse which is like leading a feather no weight in your rope at all so I could feel what the ideal felt like (as at the time I was just happy not to be dragged anymore!)

Head down was taught from the very start and covers everything from head collar and bridle on, and leading (for those oh so wonderful giraffe moments) and also when you want to do something like open a gate much easier if horse is stood still relaxed with head down . We started off having to put pressure on his poll for him to bring his head done (release as soon as he moves down in any way) and have now worked up to just putting my hand over his poll without touching him and he brings his head down. For bridling and head collar as soon as I pick up either he puts his head down until I tell him he can put his head up.

I am proud to say I now have a hulking warmblood x who I can lead with one hand on the end of a lead rope and my thumb and forefinger of my near hand halfway down the rope he is now nearly as light to lead as the QH's. He also stops as soon as I say whoa on the spot rock still and will not move till told he can.

It has though taken a lot of time and patience and I used to moan like hell at the amount of time spent training this and I am sure a lot of people will say "god how anal" but I am very thankful all it takes is a whoa for him to stand totally still put his head down and wait for the next instruction rather than the old days of drag and tanking off.

All of the above was achieved with no carrot stick and certainly no heavy handedness just a lot of patience.

 

[ThePony]

When I moved my bargy rude hulking warmblood X to a livery yard owned by my Western trainer he took one look said no way am I having a rude horse that drags people around here, and proceeded to insist that any pulling was met with a "hey" and a back up until his eye was again just in front of my shoulder (so you can see the horses expression, worried, calm, evil etc) we spent a lot of hours backing up!

Eventually he got it walk calmly next to the person leading you and you don't have to back up all the time (he is a WBX it took a while

After we mastered this the next step was the “automatic whoa” i.e. I say whoa you stop with your arse tucked under you as soon as I think whoa! (again a lot of hours of backing up) but he got it

Next step was walk on your own four feet you are a big boy and I do not need to hold onto your head you can do that, you can guess what is coming right as soon as he leans on you whoa and back up, as well as me having a session with YO's quarter horse which is like leading a feather no weight in your rope at all so I could feel what the ideal felt like (as at the time I was just happy not to be dragged anymore!)

Head down was taught from the very start and covers everything from head collar and bridle on, and leading (for those oh so wonderful giraffe moments) and also when you want to do something like open a gate much easier if horse is stood still relaxed with head down . We started off having to put pressure on his poll for him to bring his head done (release as soon as he moves down in any way) and have now worked up to just putting my hand over his poll without touching him and he brings his head down. For bridling and head collar as soon as I pick up either he puts his head down until I tell him he can put his head up.

I am proud to say I now have a hulking warmblood x who I can lead with one hand on the end of a lead rope and my thumb and forefinger of my near hand halfway down the rope he is now nearly as light to lead as the QH's. He also stops as soon as I say whoa on the spot rock still and will not move till told he can.

It has though taken a lot of time and patience and I used to moan like hell at the amount of time spent training this and I am sure a lot of people will say "god how anal" but it is times like last night that I am very thankful all it takes is a whoa for him to stand totally still put his head down and wait for the next instruction rather than the old days of drag and tanking off.

All of the above was achieved with no carrot stick and certainly no heavy handedness just a lot of patience.

This!!! So well written.
This is what I had to do with my v bargy and solidly built ISH. Took a while for her to get the message and stop trying to push her luck! A sweet mare but no interest or awareness of doing as she was told! Calm, consistent repetition is the key. She is now easy to lead and has excellent manners in all areas of handling.
I would follow the above steps, works really well and no need for force, raised voices or fancy named products.
It is the approach of the handler that works not the kit you have.

 

[AmyMay]

I am fully aware I could give him a whacking and perfectly capable of doing so,! however, I would rather approach the matter subtly and with a bit of tact

Who mentioned whacking him?? Certainly not me......

Your planned approach is absolutely the right way to go about it. Along with firmness and confidence. And quite frankly you don't need a carrot stick (or indeed wait for one to arrive) to do that.

Adopt a consistent, confidence approach from day one - and on you're on to a winner.

And whilst he did go away to be backed - you were having significant problems handling him, to the point of considering selling him.

I'm not for a minute asserting that he's not a good boy - merely young and probably ignorant. But that's not his fault.

 

[Chavhorse]

This!!! So well written.
This is what I had to do with my v bargy and solidly built ISH. Took a while for her to get the message and stop trying to push her luck! A sweet mare but no interest or awareness of doing as she was told! Calm, consistent repetition is the key. She is now easy to lead and has excellent manners in all areas of handling.
I would follow the above steps, works really well and no need for force, raised voices or fancy named products.
It is the approach of the handler that works not the kit you have.

Thanks Glosgirl, and agree it is repetition, repetition, repetition and keep calm at all times. Our main objective was to have him as a horse that anyone can deal with and I had a wonderful compliment yesterday from my YO the new groom who has just started with them brought my horse in yesterday and said he was the lightest, most well mannered horse she had ever dealt with......if only she had see him in Feb of this year!

 

[Storminateacup]

When I moved my bargy rude hulking warmblood X to a livery yard owned by my Western trainer he took one look said no way am I having a rude horse that drags people around here, and proceeded to insist that any pulling was met with a "hey" and a back up until his eye was again just in front of my shoulder (so you can see the horses expression, worried, calm, evil etc) we spent a lot of hours backing up!.

We do this

Eventually he got it walk calmly next to the person leading you and you don't have to back up all the time (he is a WBX it took a while

After we mastered this the next step was the “automatic whoa” i.e. I say whoa you stop with your arse tucked under you as soon as I think whoa! (again a lot of hours of backing up) but he got it

Next step was walk on your own four feet you are a big boy and I do not need to hold onto your head you can do that, you can guess what is coming right as soon as he leans on you whoa and back up, as well as me having a session with YO's quarter horse which is like leading a feather no weight in your rope at all so I could feel what the ideal felt like (as at the time I was just happy not to be dragged anymore!)

Head down was taught from the very start and covers everything from head collar and bridle on, and leading (for those oh so wonderful giraffe moments) and also when you want to do something like open a gate much easier if horse is stood still relaxed with head down . We started off having to put pressure on his poll for him to bring his head done (release as soon as he moves down in any way) and have now worked up to just putting my hand over his poll without touching him and he brings his head down. For bridling and head collar as soon as I pick up either he puts his head down until I tell him he can put his head up..

Yes we do this very well too! and I taught him "head down" long before he went for backing

I am proud to say I now have a hulking warmblood x who I can lead with one hand on the end of a lead rope and my thumb and forefinger of my near hand halfway down the rope he is now nearly as light to lead as the QH's. He also stops as soon as I say whoa on the spot rock still and will not move till told he can..

Hopefully we will be there soon now

It has though taken a lot of time and patience and I used to moan like hell at the amount of time spent training this and I am sure a lot of people will say "god how anal" but I am very thankful all it takes is a whoa for him to stand totally still put his head down and wait for the next instruction rather than the old days of drag and tanking off..

We dont have tanking - he wears a rope headcollar which is very effective, but we still get "Up periscope" when there are deer in the next field or shooting in the woods. I wouldn't not expect that from a youngster either

All of the above was achieved with no carrot stick and certainly no heavy handedness just a lot of patience.

Thats the way I am trying to do things too but I like my carrot stick, it just a stick after all with a nice weighted feel!!!!!

 

[Kallibear]

I think amymay is conserned that you're putting too much hope and trust in your 'carrot' stick - the way you worded it sounds like you can't manage without it! Which is rather worrying and the reason so many experienced riders dislike parelli. You should be able to lead him about in just a normal headcollar and rope and not need any other rubbish. They can be useful toll for fixing problems but they're often relied upon too much.

The other matter is that my farrier who seems to be good on teeth, thinks the youngster is more like 3 rising 4 , not 4 rising 5 (laterals shedding and no sign of tushes).

If he's lost the outside inscisors then he's rising 5 - they loose the central set at 2.5, the middle ones at 3.5 and the outer ones at 4.5.

What you're doing with him sounds fine - a winter off with a bit of decent handling won't do him any harm. Doing some work won't stop him being bored - it only lasts an hour or so at the most then he has the other 23hrs to get bored in. He's much more likely to be bored if he's on his own or living with a boring older horse who doesn't want to play - my 3.5yr old gets bored if he has to live with just one other younger horse. In a gang of younger thugs he's kept occupied all the time time!

 

[Storminateacup]

Well yes he is living with "a boring older horse" but he is just going to have to get on it it as we are not planning on buying another until at least next summer with the weather being as it is.
As for the carrot stick, I never had one before, but he is a big strong lively youngster and he does prance about. I have known lots friends hold a big **** off stick, with their ID/x and still get hurt, namely a very good Irish horse dealer freind who had some very serious injuries from his well behaved big lively youngsters. I seen young women dragged all over the place by them too. Just because the horse SHOULD be able to be lead about anywhere doesn't mean they are going to do it easily the first few times and I have decide to use aformentioned stick, as it is very effective as is the whole methodology that goes with it (however thats a whole new subject so lets not get into that again) . Yesterday, He tried to rush and bully the older horse away from his dinner, but I was there, and with a casual twirl of my CS I was able to make him think it was not such a great idea. He then stood politely at a distance and that was the end of that issue. I am pro Parelli and I have also had horses 30 years. I am not some novice. I think most people responding to my posts on here in that way that tries to suggest I am a novice, do not realise this. Also I very much doubt that they have had very large young heavily built horses and stallions. I do not wish to take chances with getting injured but to work on trust, my horse has to realise that I am the Alpha horse in the herd. He is a very dominant horse in the ffield with others and i have seen him savagely attack a horse that tried to bully him, and go back more than once to assert himself. He does not back off easily when you stand up to him, in fact he plants and will not budge. He is very sure of his size and his power. You really have to blag it with him, but he is getting better especially now I can more clearly define my space with my CS!. Having said that he is very affectionate, steady and tolerant and bold., and I am sure he will be a fabulous horse to ride, having ridden him a couple of times already

 

[thinlizzy]

I have a four year old ,he was four in may or june anyway happy with him had a bit off time off due to this and that decided were i was probs just maybe turn away at last min for dec/jan but in nights so weve had three weeks off just turning out /bringing in and he has changed !He does not like and has been stroppy and nippy so ive been tying him up while i muck out and give him a massage , takes about fourty mins and hes happier its so strange all horses are different i think and what suits one dosnt another so im going to carry on gentle hacks and schooling weather permitting and have my happy guy back

 

[rhino]

my horse has to realise that I am the Alpha horse in the herd.

But you are not a HORSE, you are a PERSON!

I'm really not trying to be rude, I just really don't understand why people feel the need to act like a horse. Horses are intelligent enough to learn to read human body language and follow commands. Or is that just the horses I know?

 

[Storminateacup]

But you are not a HORSE, you are a PERSON!

I'm really not trying to be rude, I just really don't understand why people feel the need to act like a horse. Horses are intelligent enough to learn to read human body language and follow commands. Or is that just the horses I know?

Ha ha, ha - I mean hypothetically ACTUALLY!!!!!!!!

 

[Booboos]

I find your tone condescending and rude.

I don't think amymay needs me to defend her, but I had exactly the same thoughts as her comment, and I don't seen why they are condescending or rude. You had exactly the same problems previously, tried the same solutions and they did not work. You rightly sought help and it turned out your horse did not have any particular problem at all, but now he is regressing. This thread reads like deja vue to me.

 

[Storminateacup]

I don't think amymay needs me to defend her, but I had exactly the same thoughts as her comment, and I don't seen why they are condescending or rude. You had exactly the same problems previously, tried the same solutions and they did not work. You rightly sought help and it turned out your horse did not have any particular problem at all, but now he is regressing. This thread reads like deja vue to me.

I sent a big, bolshy green youngster to be backed, nothing wrong, or weak, in that, most people do that with their horses.
He is still very green in his ground handling work despite being with the trainer for 12 weeks! I did not see any of the girls at the trainers, pick up his hind feet without a bit of a fight, and leading him from the field to a stable a few yards from his field, a mere 50 yards away and in an enclosed space is hardly a big deal. I have to lead him across open fields in a relatively new and unfamiliar place.

Firstly, I do not have the same problems as previously although he has the same personality, no doubt about that!!!. I acheived a huge amount with him after he arrived from Ireland, in a very short space of time, unaided in an open field, on my own. If it hadn't been my getting a headcollar on him, numerous times when he lost his field safe one, getting a fly mask and fly fringe on him with no fuss or upset when he had an eye infection, applying ointment to his sarcoid, - not a pleasant experience for him, also tying him up and grooming him, doing join up, leading him in a makeshift round pen and finally getting him used to a numnah over his back before he went to backed I doubt they would have got him saddled, bridled or backed so easily.
Remember I was completely ALONE in that field, no friends wanted to get anywhere near him from the outset, but still I never got hurt and he never "won" on any occasion with me , even the day he attempted to double barrel me in a training session and I had to hastily leave the pen. Nevertheless, on that occasion I returned to the pen, within a couple of minutes, took control and had a successful outcome with him. I had a fright yes indeed, but I bravely went back and dealt with it. I ve seen plenty of people get out of the way of a bucking, kicking, horse - wouldn't you? - though I suspect that you and AmyMay are so "cool" that you'd just stand there and say "yeah, come on and kick me in the head then" wouldn't you? - my arse you would!!!. High spirits it may well have been, or maybe he got annoyed whatever, after that I realised I needed some help and the only way up here (was to send him off to someone who had assistance available.)
Secondly, If I had had two young adults to help assist me with all the dangerous tasks and prepared to get on him because I was paying them, (and sit it out until he settled) I am sure I could have got the same results!!!
At NO time did the"trainer" ride him - and had I know that was going to be the case I would not have sent him there.
As I was told by the trainer, they really had their doubts that backing him would be straightforward, as he was not an easy horse and gave them cause for concern in the first 3 weeks or so and this was expressed to me.
So really I dont know why I am getting these kind of comments from the likes of you and AmyMay.
You are oversimplifying the whole situation, (as it was then, and how it is now), and I can only assume it is for your own egotistical reasons or because you seek to attack any hint of NH on this forum. Each of which I find objectionable and banal.

 

[Booboos]

I sent a big, bolshy green youngster to be backed, nothing wrong, or weak, in that, most people do that with their horses.
He is still very green in his ground handling work despite being with the trainer for 12 weeks! I did not see any of the girls at the trainers, pick up his hind feet without a bit of a fight, and leading him from the field to a stable a few yards from his field, a mere 50 yards away and in an enclosed space is hardly a big deal. I have to lead him across open fields in a relatively new and unfamiliar place.

Firstly, I do not have the same problems as previously although he has the same personality, no doubt about that!!!. I acheived a huge amount with him after he arrived from Ireland, in a very short space of time, unaided in an open field, on my own. If it hadn't been my getting a headcollar on him, numerous times when he lost his field safe one, getting a fly mask and fly fringe on him with no fuss or upset when he had an eye infection, applying ointment to his sarcoid, - not a pleasant experience for him, also tying him up and grooming him, doing join up, leading him in a makeshift round pen and finally getting him used to a numnah over his back before he went to backed I doubt they would have got him saddled, bridled or backed so easily.
Remember I was completely ALONE in that field, no friends wanted to get anywhere near him from the outset, but still I never got hurt and he never "won" on any occasion with me , even the day he attempted to double barrel me in a training session and I had to hastily leave the pen. Nevertheless, on that occasion I returned to the pen, within a couple of minutes, took control and had a successful outcome with him. I had a fright yes indeed, but I bravely went back and dealt with it. I ve seen plenty of people get out of the way of a bucking, kicking, horse - wouldn't you? - though I suspect that you and AmyMay are so "cool" that you'd just stand there and say "yeah, come on and kick me in the head then" wouldn't you? - my arse you would!!!. High spirits it may well have been, or maybe he got annoyed whatever, after that I realised I needed some help and the only way up here (was to send him off to someone who had assistance available.)
Secondly, If I had had two young adults to help assist me with all the dangerous tasks and prepared to get on him because I was paying them, (and sit it out until he settled) I am sure I could have got the same results!!!
At NO time did the"trainer" ride him - and had I know that was going to be the case I would not have sent him there.
As I was told by the trainer, they really had their doubts that backing him would be straightforward, as he was not an easy horse and gave them cause for concern in the first 3 weeks or so and this was expressed to me.
So really I dont know why I am getting these kind of comments from the likes of you and AmyMay.
You are oversimplifying the whole situation, (as it was then, and how it is now), and I can only assume it is for your own egotistical reasons or because you seek to attack any hint of NH on this forum. Each of which I find objectionable and banal.

LOL, sorry to be so drearily commonplace, I shall try better to do better in the future! Sounds like you have everything in control so best I leave this thread now.