Is this the "terrible fives"? Worried I've ruined him?!

[BeckyD]

I've had Ronnie a few days short of a year now, and he's been a total superstar without fault. That was until December-time when he started getting wound up in the field so I put him on Nupafeed. At which point he started getting a bit feisty on hacks (this is a horse who would hack on a buckle, rarely spooked, and went at whatever pace I asked him to at any time) so I took him off the Nupfeed, to a very minor improvement. He then had a holiday, and has come back far worse to hack even than he was in December.

When he spooks he bolts full speed away. I can stop him after about 50 metres. Alternatively (more worryingly) he's now started bucking, proper big bucks that get his front legs up to above hedge height! I have stayed on so far but more by luck than anything and I'm getting nervous as it's a long way to fall from up there. He seems to get set off by silly things, like a strange stone on the floor or something.

He's got much more spooky - monsters everywhere. Yesterday I couldn't get him past somewhere I've been past 100 times or more - I don't know what was spooking him, but he was snorting and shaking and heart pounding. He turned himself around then went into bronco mode.

Have I ruined him - is this something I've done? I'm trying to just keep on ridng him through it - am I doing the right thing? He gets hacked once or twice a week at least, in total is exercised 5 or 6 days a week for 30-60 minutes each with plenty of variety. I'm worried I'm going to start losing my nerve soon. He's still a poppet in the school, no bronco fits and in fact he's working very nicely on the whole, really "through" and submissive/attentive.

He's just turned 5. Is it just this and the changing seasons? He's got a new comfy saddle, is soon due a teeth and back check but as he's fine to school I don't think it's a pain issue. I've never had mad galloping hacks on him. Sorry for the length, I'm just paranoid that I've "broken" my horse somehow?

 

[eventersrus]

What is he like hacking with others?

 

[Kal]

How old is he?

 

[Kal]

Sorry just relised he's 5 doh.............

I had a 3 year old mare. Perfect at 3 and 4 years old. Complete nightmare when she reach 5 and 6. I think she new what she can get away with and was trying everything on.

 

[eventersrus]

Check out the title of post

 

[siennamum]

Are you sure his new saddle is comfy??

 

[BeckyD]

I haven't hacked him out in company since he's been silly, as I didn't want to upset other horses/take any out when he goes. We've only hacked out in company a handful of times over the year, but he used to be fine. I think he'd be better in company but it's a lot to ask someone to accompany me when he's doing this as it's pretty blooming dangerous.

 

[BeckyD]

I think so - only had it a week (problems started long before the saddle changed) but it fits much better than the old one, and he's much freer schooling in it that he was.

 

[GoJo]

god sounds like my boy at the moment. he's just turned 5 as well and has been a saint until now- he's started broncing and rodeoing in the field, boxing at you if you try and lead him in hand and spooking out on hacks. trying to ride him through it and do lots of ground work. My YO thinks its just him being a baby and finding his feet - hope she;s right.
looks kind of like your too!!

freeschooling and acting like a lunatic!!

 

[cellie]

I had mine as a 4 1/2 year old and he did most things I asked .He had tantrums at 5 but he was fitter and stronger I was also asking him for a lot more .He did get over it.He is very well behaved now as a 6/7 year old.Like you I had broncing and rearing issues I dont think you have ruined him he is probably feeling more confident in himself and questioning your judgement I have met a few people who have had these issues with 5 year olds.Keep firm and patient another couple of months and he may change again.
The only feed issues I have with him are if he is on haylage he works on high alert.Sometimes we feed to much for the amount of work and rest they get over the winter period I would look at this first.

 

[BeckyD]

God I'm so relieved to read your post, to know that I'm not the only one. It's a nightmare isn't it? His bad behaviour all started in the field on turnout - hence the Nupafeed! He's done the boxing as well when being led in, though that only lasted a few days thankfully.

Your horse does look spookily like Ronnie, facially!

Oh b*gger, I really hope I don't have a year or two of this. I'll end up in A&E!!

 

[CBAnglo]

He's lovely - what breed is he?

Mine is doing this now ... but he is 7 in 2 months so I dont know if I can use the baby excuse anymore!

 

[BeckyD]

Well funnily enough he's only just started to look like a proper horse and less like a welfare case/racehorse. Maybe the calories that he's getting that have made him put on condition are going to his head as well. Though he gets chaff, fibre cubes, build-up cubes, feed balancer and brewer's yeast, so there's nothing too heating in there. I've just started him on Hilton herbs Temperamend as well, hoping it might take the edge off him...

 

[CBAnglo]

I tried brewers yeast with mine for sweet itch - I am convinced it sent him loopy! He started spooking at everything (and he never spooked before). He has been off it for a week now and is back to normal. Just a thought - some other people have said that they have also had adverse reactions.

 

[BeckyD]

Seriously? I'd never heard of it doing that. Nupafeed sent him over the edge initially, which I'm still not sure I ever got him back from, so maybe it is the brewer's yeast - but he's only gained condition since being on that - he's really filled out nicely (well, for a TB). Supposed "calmers" just seem to be making him worse if that's the case!!

Thanks for the advice, if he's still like this at the weekend I'll take him off it for a little while and see what happens.

 

[wizoz]

I think you'll find as the summer comes he'll start to settle down again. The wind has really upset my horse and he's daft as a brush on windy days to hack out but plods along really happily when its warm and the sun is shining.

Add that to the fact that he is rising 5 and I think you could say that he's just pushing the boundaries, so you need to regain the upper hand.

Maybe if it's windy, don't hack out, just school. Give him more to think about, school him whilst hacking, leg yield etc, keep asking him to soften through his neck, if he's paying attention to you, he won't worry so much about what's going on around him.

Most of all, try NOT to worry and lose your confidence, because he will sense it. I know it's easier said than done sometimes but always remain positive

Best of luck

ETS, you are not ruining him, so don't panic.

 

[harrihjc]

I've had flash since he was 4, and he was a total saint (if a little too laid back and lazy) until the day he turned 5, when he turned into demon horse, and bucking and rearing accompanied by spinning round and taking off was the reaction to anything I asked of him that wasn't simply plodding along. We had a few months of battles and he snapped out of it as quickly as it started. He's now rising 6 and having a little s*** phase again

 

[GoJo]

i did think my boys behaviour was due to the feed he was on- we've been trying to build him up as he also looked like a ILPH case when i got him. I think the hard feed combined with spring grass has blown his brains out (what little he has!!)
have had to take him out of the field with the others because he's going so nuts -as soon as he goes in he's up on his hinds, broncing etc etc . A couple of weeks ago he was the quietest best behaved horse in the world and now- omg help!! lol

 

[viola]

My boy was a saint as a 3 - 4 year old and went through a stage at 5 years old when I could strangle him! He was a stallion and became VERY vocal, started rearing and walking on back legs as if he was born to do so (I am not joking, he could walk vertical the length on a short side of the school!!!), bucking, taking off, the lot.
Unfortunately it coincided with me having little time (first year at Uni) so I asked someone to exercise him. The problems started then so I can't for sure say it was all him (could be the new rider's lack of confidence). It certainly wasn't all the rider's fault though!

Once he hit the 6th year he suddenly grew up and matured and became my most trusted horse of a lifetime - just to give you an idea: I hacked him out bareback, in a snaffle and had no problems (it wasn't in the UK though, I bet I would be sued for doing this here on a stallion

)

 

[BigBird146]

Hi, mine was terrible at around that age, as others have said, I think it could be a combination of 'spring' and feeling his muscles and testing his boundaries. Mine def hacked out better with his field buddy who was calm and unflappable. Have you tried any of the natural horsmanship techniques on him (not advocating going buying lots of Parelli branded gumf, I just got the pressure halter and use it with a lunge line). I did a lot with my horse when he was younger, then let it slide for a while, but since getting the new trailer have been brushing up on my techniques and I'm amazed what a difference it's made when out hacking. There's a book by Michael Peace called Understanding your Horse, which is good but any of the ones along those lines should be OK so long as they are used alongside a good dose of common sense!! As for calming supplements, I have to say I don't think the herbal ones did much for mine, but I've just got one called Be Kalm (i think!) by Equine America (hope thats right now will check later and PM you if any different!) which the woman in the tack shop swears is better than the blue chip one. I've got a syringe based paste one for short term use while getting him used to travelling, but it also comes in powder form for daily feeding.
Hope this helps!

 

[CBAnglo]

Am convinced it is the brewers yeast - tried it on both of mine and both of them went nuts. Took one off a week ago, and is now sane (the other still nuts) and just took him off it at the weekend. He is now sane again.

I hacked the first one out everyday over the weekend and was met with rain, hail, sleet and snow. He didnt bat an eyelid althought the other horses were spooky. Last weekend he was a nightmare (still on BY) and I could barely get him to leave the yard.

 

[CBAnglo]

Have you tried Global Herbs Thoroughbred calmer? It is the only one that worked with my anglo when I was bringing him back into work (the TB side of him is very excitable) and he did very well on it. They get a bit more excitable for the 1st couple of days (mine didnt) then after that they think about things much more.

For condition, I feed mine linseed which is also good for coats. And for muscle development I feed fenugreek. You can actually get this as one supplement but I get them separately so that I can adjust the rates for each horse.

My youngster was great at 4, nightmare at 5, great rising six and now nightmare rising 7. Just when I start to get comfortable with him he tests the boundaries. But then he is also a CB so that might have a little bit to do with the stubborness!

 

[Orangehorse]

I would be tempted to cut down his feed even more, if possible.

When he misbehaves do you tell him off, loudly? (I know you are hanging on grimly!) But if he doesn't realise it is wrong he might think it is OK. Now the evenings are getting lighter, can you step up his work (no extra feed).

I think it is just the Terrible Fives - feeling stronger, spring grass growing - you know the story!

 

[BeckyD]

Thanks for the advice and encouraging words. I do school when I hack (not every time, as I think he needs a little "down" time too) e.g. leg yielding and shoulder fore.

I'll try not to worry but I think i was born to worry!

 

[BeckyD]

That does sound like Ronnie. Hmmm, just his age then!! Sorry to hear Flash is going through his phase again! Bet you thought you'd seen the back of that.

 

[BeckyD]

I have been doing some Parelli-type work with him in the school, which he's taken to very well and has improved his ground handling quite a bit. I have a Kelly Marks book on order, so hoping that'll give me some pointers.

I've heard of the Equine America calmer, I'll look into it if this one doesn't work. So far two people on the yard really rate the Hilton herbs but what suits one really doesn't seem to suit another...

 

[BeckyD]

The TB calmer was to be my next stop, funnily enough. Will see how the Hilton herbs one pans out, if it fails I'll go to the TB calmer.

I've not heard of fenugreek for muscle development - where do you buy that?

I struggle a bit with feed as he's on part livery and the YO is very patient with my feed requests but there's a limit to what I can do to change his diet. I'd far rather be DIY and specify his feed myself - in which case he'd be on oil and fibre and mulitvits but that's about it.

 

[cellie]

Ah say no more mine was a welfare case too tb as well we make them healthy and thats how they repay us.I used build up then changed to pasture mix and kwik beet as he started holding his weight .Mine weighed 360 as i remember when I bought him at 4 1/2 hes now a healthy 510.Well not quite so healthy just had surgery for arthritis in his hock but getting there again.I found once I had bored him with the hacking he settled down lovely.He was a complete b******** at one stage he went over backwards in a lesson with me on him that was a near miss my instructor was there and she said i id nothing to him he just wanted to follow the other horse.He has settled down in hand as well its related to age .If hes on a balancer I wouldnt think he would need all the other extras that might be why he is going ott.I would contact the balancer co. to find out a good feeding plan.I use pasture mix kwik beet alpha with oil and will start using balancer this week.Maybe the build up is too much with the balancer I drop mine to pasture mix if hes not doing so much , they are the same mix different energy /carbs etc.Stick with him you will get there

 

[BeckyD]

Yes, I do shout "No" at him when he does it. But to be honest he's so away with the fairies when he does it I'm not sure he'd have heard me!

Yep, I can step up his work now the evenings are longer. I've been limited as I didn't want to monopolise the indoor school at "rush hour" if you know what I mean. Plus he's only been back in work a few weeks so I've been taking it pretty gently (or trying to!).

I might suggest that he comes off the build-up cubes then, sounds like they might not be helping.

 

[CBAnglo]

The hiltons one did nothing for mine (although it smelt lovely and looked really interesting).

I get all of my supplements from mile end equestrian - I think the fenugreek is by Equus health. It is about £9 for 3kgs and lasts quite a while. think the fenugreek and linseed is the same price and quantity. My anglo loves it. It has really helped him with his muscle development. He was in v poor condition when I bought him and therefore once he was up to weight and feeling good about himself he became a handful (but was 7 at the time so should have known better!) He was then off work for 6 months with an injury and lost all muscle tone and condition so I had to build it all back up again. This time when I brought him into work I thought it would be less stressful if he was on a calmer hence trying all of them. I still give him the maintenance rate of the GH TB calmer and he has remained non-spooky but is still very responsive.

Good luck! Oh, and you are not ruining him. I thought this all the time with my youngster - its natural because you are trying to understand him. These are the teenage years when they are all complete ASBOs. It does get better (at least that's what I keep telling myself!)