Is this unreasonable? (livery related)

[el_Snowflakes]

The yard where I keep my horse is lovely. Nice modern stables, tidy yard and lovely friendly and trustworthy staff.

I pay over £200 a month for livery (turn out/in mon-fri, hay & straw) at the weekend its purely DIY . Grazing is good, We have a floodlit outdoor school, roads are busy so hacking is limited/nil if you don't want to ride on busy roads. Through the summer we sometimes get the use of a field to ride in but this is inconsistent. When it rains heavily or it HAS been raining heavily (we're in Scotland!) the horses are kept in. If the school is wet we are not permitted to use it. Yesterday my horse was in all day and I couldn't even ride her as the school is out of use, as it has been for about a week. Prior to that it was only opened for a week after being closed the previous week! This means I am going weeks at a time without riding

I hate to complain as I love the place but Im getting v little chance to ride my horse and competition season is looming. Are we all in the same boat here or is this unusual?

 

[smellsofhorse]

I wouldnt put up with it.

Hors ebeing in plus you cant use the arena?
Not fair on you but especially horse.

I couldnt keep my horses on yard with limited turnout, but other people dont mind, each to their own.

But your yard needs to sort out the arena flooding issue.

Speak to yard owner, they may sort it, but id move.

 

[Shooting Star]

No this doesn't seem reasonable for what you're getting at all. It's one thing to have to close fields from time to time but to have no access to a school & walker when it occurs really is a very poor offering from a yard.

 

[madmav]

Yes, that is unreasonable. If you're not allowed to turn out, or ride in school, and hacking is dodgy, what on earth are you expected to do with a horse? They must be stir-crazy!

 

[el_Snowflakes]

The other day my horse got out for all of 10 min while I walked her in hand around the car park in the dark, then let her graze in hand on a grassy patch in the pouring rain! It's very hard to keep a horse fit & schooled in these circumstances & every time I book a lesson I have to cancel due to school conditions!

The most difficult thing is that the yard is less than 10 min drive from home & in a semi rural location so there's not many yards locally......just been browsing online & saw one for similar price with 2 schools (jumping & dressage) a WH field with jumps, 3 miles from huge beach & an Xc course but it's a good 45 min drive.......I will be dreaming of this tonight!!

 

[Shooting Star]

I feel for you but honestly would say consider the yard 45 mins away.

I'm about 30 mins drive and have full DIY so not even the luxury of going just once a day to bring in, muck out & ride but so worth it for 2 schools that are always available, walker plus fab hacking ( except for 5 mins of roadwork from hell but you can't have everything!)

We do get field closures a bit during the winter but only at the worst times when the horses really have to be forced to go out anyway all in all I'd do the drive and enjoy my horse any day over paying for a horse that I can't use.:smile3:

 

[4April]

45 mins away is a far way to drive especially if you make more than one trip a day :s

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Unfortunately I'm not in a position to make a 45 min trip to yard. I would especially worry in the event of an emergency -hopefully find somewhere closer.

 

[webble]

Yes its unreasonable, is there any grass livery or even just a field you could put a shelter in nearby?

 

[holeymoley]

Not ideal but could you perhaps box up to another school? I'd also be asking for a reduction perhaps over the winter months if the facilities are as limited as this. Would seem a shame to move it it's ideal the rest of the year.

 

[Polos Mum]

£200 a month is £50 a week
Turn out at £2 a go for five days is £10, same for bringing in so another £10
Straw - say 2 bales a week is £4
Hay - in 24/7 or extra in field would be say 5 bales a week at £4 each thats £20

So from your £50 your paying £20 for their time, £24 for hay and straw which leaves £6 a week for insurance, water, rates, electric for school, facilities and maintenance

Not much of a supprise that the facilities are rubbish - you get what you pay for.

 

[Goldenstar]

£200 a month is £50 a week
Turn out at £2 a go for five days is £10, same for bringing in so another £10
Straw - say 2 bales a week is £4
Hay - in 24/7 or extra in field would be say 5 bales a week at £4 each thats £20

So from your £50 your paying £20 for their time, £24 for hay and straw which leaves £6 a week for insurance, water, rates, electric for school, facilities and maintenance

Not much of a supprise that the facilities are rubbish - you get what you pay for.

I agree with this the margin there is tiny .
I know what it costs to maintain my yard and pay the electricity bills etc etc etc and am shocked how cheap people offer livery for .
However that does help OP.
One and half hours driving round trip will cost you more than you livery in a month
Worse if you go twice a day plus the loss of time .
You need to look for somewhere better perhaps a place on a private yard or a field perhaps visit local farms and ask.
But no turnout no school to ride in and only ten minutes in hand is not acceptable and at the very least you must lead your horse up and down the yard for forty five minutes a day.

 

[Polos Mum]

However that does help OP.

Sorry if I wasn't clear I was picking up on the OP's comment that she'd looked for yards at a similar price - I'd imagine if she looked to pay a little (or a lot) more there might be more choice of yard that had suitable facilities
I think if people break down what they actually pay for they might understand why xyz doesn't work or why their horses don't have enough abc etc.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

£200 a month is £50 a week
Turn out at £2 a go for five days is £10, same for bringing in so another £10
Straw - say 2 bales a week is £4
Hay - in 24/7 or extra in field would be say 5 bales a week at £4 each thats £20

So from your £50 your paying £20 for their time, £24 for hay and straw which leaves £6 a week for insurance, water, rates, electric for school, facilities and maintenance

Not much of a supprise that the facilities are rubbish - you get what you pay for.

Maybe so but that is the going rate in this part of Scotland.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Maybe so but that is the going rate in this part of Scotland.

ETA: not sure where your basing your figures but are incorrect. The hay & straw is made by the YO on their own land, so at £30 for a large bale that doesn't add up. it's normally £1 per turnout not £2, turning my horse out takes about 10 seconds so I don't thinks that's unreasonable.

Oops meant to edit- not quote myself!

 

[Orangehorse]

Don't know about 10 seconds to turn out a horse - what do they do, open the door and let him run out? If they have to put on a headcollar and lead him out it will take more than 10 seconds, and time is money as we know.

As for the OP - if you are saying competitions are coming up I presume you have your own transport, so can't you put him in the trailer and take him out for a nice long hack at the weekends. I agree that it is rubbish not being able to ride at the yard, but the weather conditions are extreme.

 

[ihatework]

£50 a week to include services and hay & straw really is peanuts.
So whilst I would not be happy with the set up you describe I do think you need to evaluate the cost of horse ownership verses expectations of facilities.
Personally if I was on a budget I'd rather keep my horse out 24/7 on grass than have them shut in a box with minimal turnout/hacking

 

[Goldenstar]

Sorry if I wasn't clear I was picking up on the OP's comment that she'd looked for yards at a similar price - I'd imagine if she looked to pay a little (or a lot) more there might be more choice of yard that had suitable facilities
I think if people break down what they actually pay for they might understand why xyz doesn't work or why their horses don't have enough abc etc.

It was not aiming at you PM.

 

[Honey08]

When we made our own big bales it cost £15 to cut and bale. That doesn't include the extra money we spent on rolling and harrowing etc in the Spring. Even when you make your own the costs add up.

Freelance grooms average around £10 per hour to do any jobs. What you're getting in your livery would cost a lot more if you were paying someone else to do those jobs... Just putting into perspective the positive side of what you're getting for your money. It wouldn't leave them much money.

Ours haven't been out in the fields much for weeks. We are lucky in that we have an allweather turnout area. The trouble with using a wet school is that you're likely to end up with more issues and be able to use the school even less. I do feel for you though, it sounds as though your yard needs an allweather turnout area too. It wouldn't cost them that much to build and would mean their liveries stay happier.

 

[tallyho!]

As I see it, the YO set the price so have to live with the low margins. Not the fault of the customer in my eyes.

I would have left long ago. Not because I couldn't ride as I would ride anywhere, I've ridden in Bath, but because turn-out is SO important to me. The horse comes first.

I understand that livery prices have to be competitive but it is a business and I think too many liveries sell themselves short and suffer as a result. If people can't afford livery, they shouldn't have a horse. Equally, if you can afford a horse, expect to pay for what you get.

The cost of owning a horse is only going to go up. As our climate changes as we have already seen, hay and straw prices will continue to rise and rise. We will continue to see foot problems as the continuous wet damages their feet and so adding to vet and hoofcare costs. Paying for decent livery is an economical option to me.

 

[9tails]

We're all suffering at the moment with saturated fields. If the land owner is over protective about them, like ours, the horses are kept in. Luckily we have a school and a lunge pen that, although wet, haven't YET been shut. We have been banned from using an unused piece of land to hand graze our horses as they don't want visitors to see mud! My place is the most expensive for DIY in the area too. Unfortunately, anywhere with livery space at the moment is going to be worse than what we have

 

[Billy the kid]

Yes, i think its unreasonable.

Even if you could just plod round the edge of the school for 15mins would at least get him out the stable, whats the point in having an out door school in a place where it rains most the time (i also live in scotland) and then having a rule of no using it in the wet weather? The way i see it is, it rains most of the time so you just have to get wet!

Thats not a dig at you btw, as you obviously want to ride.

 

[alainax]

Where abouts in scotland are you?

 

[twiggy2]

however cheap or expensive the yard it does not offer what you want so leave

 

[Polos Mum]

turning my horse out takes about 10 seconds so I don't thinks that's unreasonable.!

I must be slow it probably takes me more than 10 sec to get headcollar and put it on, then pick out feet, change rug, walk to field wade through mud, check ice on water trough, put hay out, walk back to yard.

Even if hay makking themselves by the time they've harrowed, weed killered, fertilised, maintained the bailer, drum mower, turner tractor and trailer, not to mention the time to actually make it over a week then cart it and stack it, nor even to mention the fact they have a field they can't use for much else other than a bit of grazing for a few months in autumn only - there is still a big cost.

However I agree with the poster above, cost is irrelevant - the yard doesn't provide what you need so leave - but maybe be prepared to look at more expensive yards to get the turnout and school that you'd like.

 

[honetpot]

I have my own land so its up to me whether they trash or not. The choice is depending on the amount of land leave them out and have it all 75% trashed, it looks awful and come the spring all the liveries move because they can not wait for the land to recover and want more grass and then prospective liveries see bare fields. Or you turn them out in a smaller area feed and it will become a mud bath then there with be complaints about muddy animals and mud fever.
A school costs about £20,000 to put in and I can never see any livery yard making a return from it, if the drainage is water logged riding on it will make it worse. We have to accept our winters are wet at the moment and unless someone has a lot of land and has spent an awful lot on an indoor school there is not a lot of choice and you have to pay more that sort of set up.
I have chosen the mud bath option but I think a happy horse is a dirty one, with a clean strip down the middle of its face.

 

[applecart14]

Totally ridiculous. Why are you still there!?

We keep being told that we will have the school locked where I am because there are selfish individuals (the same ones every time) that keep leaving poo in the school and its really unfair as we all pay the same money so should be able to use the school. WHilst I can see the YO's reasons for doing so on the odd ocassion, if it became a common occurence it wouldn't be right. It doesn't help those of us who get our horses poo up after we have ridden.

If I couldn't ride becasue the surface was so poor due to the rain that it was unrideable then I would be looking to move somewhere else. If the surface is that naff then imagine how it will affect your horses joints! Ours is pretty good although it does gets deep once in a while in the summer after a long dry period.

If you don't have a horse walker to put them on then it could also be a dangerous practice for those horses that require bringing back into work following injury, or that require a certain level of work for feed, or as you point out need work in order to compete.

I would be looking at somewhere else if this is an ongoing situation.

Maybe you could suggest to the YO that drainage is improved in teh school although the cost is likely to be prohibitive.

 

[el_Snowflakes]

Thanks, lots of interesting replies. price is not the main issue here, It's up to YOs to price their services accordingly so it's not my business/problem if the business isn't profiting. I'm a good livery & I appreciate my yard & all the work that is put into running a large livery yard, however my problem is that the turnout & riding facilities are declining. A few years ago the school was rarely closed. it's not as east as some may think to up & leave as DIY isn't an option due to work commitments & there are few yards locally. The reason for my thread was to find out if not being able to ride/ turnout was a common problem. The main issue is riding, turnout isn't restricted as often as riding is & although the price isn't really the issue I do grudge paying £50+ per week to keep my horse in a stable much of the time and go for weeks without riding.

I can use my trailer to get out but grudge the money & time needed to do this several times a week in order to keep my horse fit.

 

[Lizzie66]

£50 a week for what you are getting seems more than fair. The YO can't help the weather and if they allowed you to ride in a waterlogged school not only would you damage their school further you would probably damage your horse.

Basically if you aren't happy with the arrangements then I'd speak to the YO and ask whether there is one field that you could all use on a rota maybe 2hrs each per day so that they all get some turnout but only one field is trashed.

With regard to exercising then at weekends you can hack out (not ideal with busy roads) or you could box up to somewhere a little more quiet and hack from there, or as someone else suggested box to a local indoor arena.

So re the question in your thread title then I would say the answer is no they are not being unreasonable, you don't pay enough for the YO to allow you to damage their property so I can totally understand their outlook. If you can't bear with it then you need to move.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is there any chance that the arena will be repaired once the weather improves? If not, then your only option is to move. A properly installed and maintained arena should never be too deep to ride on. Our (sand and rubber) school sucks up any amount of rain (including one day in which we had 4" of rain in a few hours), but then it was correctly installed by a very experienced company in the first place.

IMHO, you can cope for a very short while (few days) without turnout if fields are waterlogged after exceptional rainfall, but not if you cannot use the school as well.