Is too much strain put on young horses?

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IGWLC

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Just curious.. At what age would most people think it's ok to begin backing a horse? Generally, it seems people do it at around four, and have them out cross country schooling, hunting that same year- is that not dangerous for the horse as it hasn't yet fully developed? Personally, I believe it is much more beneficial to the horse to have some very light backing at four (at the very earliest), turn it away for six months or so and then bring on very slowly from there. I wouldn't start the faster, significantly harder work for at least another 6 months after that. This way the horse has plenty of time to develop both physically and mentally. From what I know, too much impact on the joints at such a young age as four (or even younger in some cases) just causes injuries and complications later on in life, often irreparable problems- so why then do people do so much with horses at such a young age? Top level dressage horses don't begin truly challenging work until at least ten or so... Why aren't other horses allowed to develop in the same fashion? Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I'm just interested- I'm not criticising people who do start horses young just wondering what their reasons are for doing it!
 
Previously backed as a three year old, turned away and then stated in earnest at four. Depending on horse they would be out competing occasionally that year.

Top level dressage horses start challenging work before they are 10, they are out competing top level at that age so the hardwork started years before. Some horses are at four star eventing by 9 and that's very hard work.

Personally I don't see it any different to kids doing sports competitively, exercising hard before they are fully mature.

Lots of reasons for doing it, financial, tradition, ability
 
I have a serious issue with people breaking in too young but I also have an issue with people boring their young horses to death So my method has been to back ride away and do everything from 4.5 onwards and perhaps do three months of walking trotting cantering galloping and jumping while the ground is soft in the Autumn turn away for the really bad weather in winter and early spring and bring into full work at 5 but only if they are ready at these ages some need longer before they start at all some are into mischief and need a job by 4. I would never allow anyone to sit on a horse if it had not passed its fourth birthday but that is just my way and although the oldest of my breakers is now approaching 20 I have never ever had a joint issue in any of the many by doing this. Probably been lucky but I hope it is luck laced with a hefty dose of common sense.

What I abhor is people riding before they are a minimum of four years of age, of doing endless circling in a soft surface in each pace and hours and hours of lunging.
I know commercially the profit margin in leaving horses until their older is a factor and most back at 3 are doing quite a lot by 4 and can be knackered by 8, many have survived the production from an early age and minds and bodies in tact for years and made old bones so I am not knocking them I has been common practice for years and has worked well it simply isn't my way. No wish to get into an argument each to their own if it ain't broke don't fix it if it works for you and you are confident it does no harm then I am sure anything anyone says will make no difference
 
I tend to back mine in the autumn of their third year and then turn them away for the winter. Mine live out as youngsters in a 25 acre field so have plenty of opportunity to move about - studies have shown that bones need an amount of impact work to develop well.

I also disagree with your comment about dressage horses not doing tough work until at least 10 as it is not unknown for 10 year olds to be competing Grand Prix.

I do think that too much too young is detrimental to a horse's long term soundness.
 
I handle and teach the basics of leading, tying up and grooming young, then they're ready to be broken in at 3yrs. I don't do turning away after.

Once they've been backed and learnt stop/start in the arena then they will ideally hack to get used to the world. Hacking is most peoples favourite way to relax it seems, and necessary for most horses at some point even if owned by people who hate hacking, so I'm amazed at the amount of horses who are not taught to hack alone as part of the early education.

They will do light schooling too, including over poles. I want them relaxed and going forward, outline comes later with maturity, muscle development and increased fitness. The schooling sessions are kept short.

Once backed a basic fitness program is followed over about 4 months because I have no wish to ride daily and do it quicker. Then most work is at walk with some trot and a little canter, for 20min to an hour two or three times a week. It all depends on the facilities of the yard I'm on at the time and availability of hacking as to how much is hacking versus schooling.

I teach jumping around 4yrs and start local competitions in anything and everything about 4 1/2.

It's never caused me or the horses any problems and I end up with good all-rounders suitable for riding club activities. I think far too much fuss is made about 'ground work', 'desensitizing', 'bombproofing' etc in the arena. Ditto the attitude that horses shouldn't work until physically mature. I see nothing wrong with starting ridden work at 3yrs and think that if people buy horses to ride/drive they should quietly and calmly get on with riding/driving it without all the fuss, debates and drama that seems to occur whenever someone on a livery yard owns a youngster. The people on my current yard are refreshingly sensible and there is a distinct lack of drama. I love it there!
 
Interesting point about the bomb proofing / desensitising. Having bred quite a few foals I've noticed that some are naturally spooky whilst others are a lot less fussed about things. I do think that nature plays a huge part in how an individual horse copes with new situations and it hasn't made any difference whether we've done desensitising or not.
 
I backed mine at 4 - he's now 4.5 and just hacking out in walk, trot and a tiny bit of canter. I've had him from an unhandled yearling and never felt the need to rush anything but every tom dick and harry seems to think it's fine to back 3 year olds and have them out jumping within weeks. Makes my blood boil but I try to keep my opinions to myself. we've never set foot in an arena or done a circle of any sort.
 
The comment about dressage horses is rather inappropriate, if Valegro is used as an example, he is the top horse in the world and has been competing at the highest level since he was 10 when he won the Olympic title in 2012, he has just won the worlds aged 12 years, he started competing as a 4 year old winning age classes and championships which are challenging in many ways and certainly not a walk trot test, so rather spoiling your point of view of top dressage horses being late starters.
 
Mine is currently two and living out with another youngster on about ten acres of hills. He won't be backed until he is at least four, and he won't do any proper schooling or jumping before he is six. Some people do look at me sideways when I say that he won't be started until then. In fairness, I do a lot of stuff on the ground, and plan to bit him and lead out from an older horse once he turns three, so he isn't being left entirely to his own devices! But I'm not planning on competing; he's just a labour of love :)
 
It is up to people what they do with their own horses but I would never back before4. My boy is now 5 and is only now really starting to work hard. I backed him last year, he was hacked lightly over the summer and then turned away over the winter as he was growing. He was brought back in to work this April, we also started working him in the school at this point. He has done some dressage and is still hacking, next year when he is six he may do some jumping. What's the rush I am not producing him for money, I want him to live a long and useful life.
 
Studies in the racing world have shown that horses backed as yearlings/2yo's have stronger bones and tendons due to being worked and strengthened at a young age but further down the line more joint problems appear and their racing career/career afterwards is shorter.

Store horses that are left out in a field uptil 5/6yo then come in, get broken and go into training are more likely to do a tendon or break a bone and end their racing careers within their first year of racing because there has been no conditioning work on the legs for the job required of them.

The ones that last the longest both in racing and careers afterwards are the ones that are backed and breezed as 3yo's, turned away and brought back in as 4yo's to race. They tend to do less injuries in training and have longer working lives afterwards. Most of these horses will be jump horses who will probably only run 3-4 times in Bumpers or Novice hurdles in their first year.
 
Thanks everyone for the replies- some interesting thoughts. Maybe I should have explicitly said that I was talking about dressage from a classical perspective- left in a large herd over many acres until 4 or 5, then start light ground work and/or liberty and may be lightly backed, 6 start pure dressage schooling, at 10 they're ready for the most demanding moves.
Personally, I think it's so important that horses should be allowed to spend plenty of time in a herd while they mature mentally and physically and learn how to socialise and communicate with other horses in a constructive way. Also helps with liberty/ground work- body language cues emulated by the human as the horses would do in a herd environment. Why all the rush to back horses so young and not allow them these moments of pure freedom? Why back so early and neglect all the ground work which establishes self carriage, impulsion, collection and harmony before you've even got on? Hmmm...
 
The dressage world, as most horse disciplines is very commercial, young dressage bred horses are worth a lot of money and anyone breeding them for a living wants to have them started as early as possible and then sellable. Your idea might be great in theory but in practice just not going to work.
 
EKW said:
Store horses that are left out in a field uptil 5/6yo then come in, get broken and go into training are more likely to do a tendon or break a bone and end their racing careers within their first year of racing because there has been no conditioning work on the legs for the job required of them.
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But if they're living out in a herd they're more than able to get plenty of proper conditioning, in fact, they're going to be beautifully supple and athletic after a couple of years in this environment. There's no need to back at such a young age, it's because they are taken out of a herd environment and not introduced into work properly. There is no liberty, no ground work, just straight to the race track. That is why they get injured!
The racing industry is heavily dependent on financial gain, one of the main reasons, I believe, that horses are backed so young. Why aren't they allowed a few moments of freedom? Time to just play and grow as an individual. Yes, they may go on to have 'good working lives' but from who's perspective- the horse's or the owner who's getting rich off it, with little regard for the horse's welfare. Food for thought.
 
bonny said:
The dressage world, as most horse disciplines is very commercial, young dressage bred horses are worth a lot of money and anyone breeding them for a living wants to have them started as early as possible and then sellable. Your idea might be great in theory but in practice just not going to work.
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Exactly. It's unfair to accuse just the racing world (typical!) of being money orientated, it's everywhere and unfortunately many horses aren't allowed to develop fully because of it.
 
This is the perfect thread to link to the often quoted 'Ranger' article about horse skeletal maturing rates.
http://www.equinestudies.org/ranger_2008/ranger_piece_2008_pdf1.pdf

Racing interests sometimes cite as justification for competing very young horses that 'race conditioning is good for their bones.' This statement is a mis-application of good research.
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The quote is from the paragraph at the bottom of page 2. It's very interesting but there's far too much for me to type out as my copy&paste function won't work with the article. So go read! :D
 
I think more youngsters brought up in a commercial environment will have the chance to spend their early years living in a herd than ones bred by individuals breeding just the one foal for themselves, they often spend more time in a stable or very small paddock living with a single companion, that they then start work at 3 or 4 is essential from a business prospective, whatever sphere they are intended for.

Without good commercial breeders there would be far less horses for people to enjoy, they have to sell to continue to breed more, to suggest they leave them until they are 6 would mean the prices would be beyond the reach of most people and it would encourage the backyard breeders who don't look after their stock and breed indiscriminately from any old mare or young filly to breed even more to supply the demand, obviously not relevant to the racing world but certainly true for the average non specialised horse, it would reduce the numbers of good quality well bred horses available as breeding them and keeping them for so long would not be viable.
Yes they could sell them as youngsters but they would then not be likely to be kept as you would like in a big herd or risk being broken early, again not to your liking, maybe they shouldn't be ridden at all then they would be able to live happily in herds their whole lives.
 
Faracat, very interesting article, thanks for sharing! Be positive, I see what you're saying and agree with you on much of what you have said, I'm just wondering whether all people are happy with forsaking the welfare and development of the horse in order to gain financially, in the case of certain commercial breeders. I do not belive it is necessary that all horses should, be unridden.
Living in a solid herd is a precursor which helps hugely with effective communication when doing ground work and liberty, which builds a suitable framework for a harmonious relationship under saddle, which is what we all want, right?
So surely a couple of years in a herd environment is a vital step in producing the 'ideal' horse?
 
bonny said:
Surely just about every horse has a couple of years living in a herd environment ?
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Most bred in a stud will live out in a herd for the first few years, they will be mainly left alone in a group, it is ones bred individually that lack that opportunity to live in a same age group in a large field, not sure if the link to the photo will work so linking to the thread as well, photos of a group of youngsters living as they should.
http://www.saddle-up.org/7-yearling-fillies.jpg

https://forums-secure.horseandhound.co.uk/showthread.php?669881-WHY-do-youngsters-do-this
 
IGWLC said:
Why all the rush to back horses so young and not allow them these moments of pure freedom? Why back so early and neglect all the ground work which establishes self carriage, impulsion, collection and harmony before you've even got on? Hmmm...
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I don't see anything wrong with what you propose for your horses, or anyone else's plans for that matter. The only people that annoy me are the ones who back yearlings and two years olds where you can see the poor things backs sag as the rider mounts and those who badly lunge youngsters endlessly for little apparent purpose. If the horse owner is happy with their decision of when to back their horse and has a suitable plan for progressing fitness and training so there are no welfare issues from over work, then where's the problem? I get annoyed at those people who feel the need to create drama about their horse, often because they don't know what they're doing or are scared of the horse. Or worse, those people who create drama about someone else's horse and the choices that owner has made.

But your points I've quoted, my answers would be:

Because horses can have a fatal injury or illness quite easily and randomly, so I'd want to be riding it ASAP to maximize the ridden career (the original purpose of owning the horse) before it dies of something or other.

With classical dressage groundwork, I think that's the only groundwork worth doing tbh, but I'm not bothered about training a horse for classical dressage myself and neither are most people I meet. Most want all rounders. If a horse had to be sold due to a change in circumstances an all rounder has a better chance of selling than eg an unbroken 6yr old. Whilst the classical dressage groundwork is worthwhile, the horse can be taught under saddle instead and I'd prefer to be riding than on the ground, because riding is why I buy horses in the first place.


EKW that's interesting I didn't know official studies had been done on the age of breaking race horses in.
 
Sugar_and_Spice said:
EKW that's interesting I didn't know official studies had been done on the age of breaking race horses in.
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Yes, there have been countless but most recently there was a big study done over here at the Equine University. It was made into a TV programme, not sure if you got it over there in the UK though, but very interesting and corroborated much of what has been said before on other studies.

I back my crowd at 2, 3 or 4 depending entirely on the horse. I don't like the rush mentality which is why I do it over a very long period of time; I certainly don't want my young horses working on the bit or jumping within just 6 months of being backed. I much prefer to take a year or two years of light trail riding before moving further onto more strenuous work. Horses for courses though but having lived in the UK for many years and backing horses there at 4 years old, there's no way I'd go back to that. Giving my young horses good exposure to different environments in a safe and stressfree way is what, I believe, helps them become great non-spooky horses. The herd environment was mentioned; all of my horses, young and old, spend every day and night in their herds. Perhaps the fact that so many horses in my area are kept out 24/7/365 could perhaps be a reason that these horses who were backed at 2 years old are still going strong and being ridden soundly well into their 30s? I never saw very many 30+ year old horses being anything other than retired in the UK tbh.
 
Faracat said:
SF - do you have a link to the new study?
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I had a quick look on google, I know it's there as I've not only read it but also watched the screened TV documentary about it ... but I'm darned if I can find the link to it this evening, sorry. I'll search again tomorrow if no-one else has found it by then. The funding was given in 2010 I believe so it finished in fairly recent years.
 
I think it is very common in ireland to run them young. Just reading on my FB from a guy who "rescued" a two yr old (now 3) TB and shes skin and bone, but he is riding her and getting weekly lessons and is planning the hunting season. Needless to say a lot of people are not happy..
 
I took on a pony 5 years ago when he was 8 who had been jumped 5-6 days a week from when he was about 5 years old, up to around 3ft at comps (he was 14hh)

Needless to say, by the time he came to me he'd started refusing jumps and developing back and leg problems.

I like to think I have him a happy 5 years and helped turn him from a very stressed pony into a happier on. He was put to sleep a few weeks ago with serious neck, back and leg problems - very probably caused by being hammered when he was young.

So I think it's a combination of starting too young and asking too much of young horses.
 
maxapple said:
I took on a pony 5 years ago when he was 8 who had been jumped 5-6 days a week from when he was about 5 years old, up to around 3ft at comps (he was 14hh)

Needless to say, by the time he came to me he'd started refusing jumps and developing back and leg problems.

I like to think I have him a happy 5 years and helped turn him from a very stressed pony into a happier on. He was put to sleep a few weeks ago with serious neck, back and leg problems - very probably caused by being hammered when he was young.

So I think it's a combination of starting too young and asking too much of young horses.
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How sad. I can think of a few ponies who are being hammered at such a young age, with an overweight rider on, and it's pretty heartbreaking.
 
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