Is too much strain put on young horses?

Moomin1 said:
How sad. I can think of a few ponies who are being hammered at such a young age, with an overweight rider on, and it's pretty heartbreaking.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I also hate the adverts for the now "slightly lame" competition horse or pony: "has just been diagnosed with navicular" etc...:( He got you this far, surely you could give him a retirement?

I'm determined to let mine mature properly before starting him!
 
shadeofshyness said:
I saw a 2yo Welsh cob being ridden recently, didn't look happy.

In this age of the internet and getting anything you want instantly, no one has any patience :(
Click to expand...

I went out and bought an older one to ride whilst my youngster matures. I fully intend to then give the older horse his retirement, for as long as he is sound/healthy enough to be happy :) He's more than earned it, imo.
 
Arizahn said:
I went out and bought an older one to ride whilst my youngster matures. I fully intend to then give the older horse his retirement, for as long as he is sound/healthy enough to be happy :) He's more than earned it, imo.
Click to expand...
Good for you! In my opinion it's so important to let them fully mature and start them nice and slow. Glad to see that you and others who have responded to this post are putting the welfare an happiness of your horses first.
Thanks again to everyone who has commented- very interesting reading about what everyone has to say.
 
shadeofshyness said:
I saw a 2yo Welsh cob being ridden recently, didn't look happy.

In this age of the internet and getting anything you want instantly, no one has any patience :(
Click to expand...
It's so sad, I have seen similar things which is why I brought this up in the first place. I just don't see where the benefit is- unless all people are interested in is getting some sort of financial gain from their horse as soon as possible, then selling it when it gets problems later on to avoid vet bills!
Saw a very young one at a riding school a couple of years back- ridden, kicked, pulled around by novices and ended up dull, unresponsive and all round miserable. People are so keen to get horses ridden away as quick as possible that they don't realise the ways in which they are damaging their horses until it's too late. :(
 
If I'm totally honest I think not enough work is done with young horses . While I don't believe in backing too young I do believe that a lot horses are Molly coddled too much... There seems to be a split between the ' I'll razz it over a billion high jumps with no schooling , a huge bit, martingale and spurs' and the ' I won't make it work ever - because of lots of reasons to do with welfare but really cos I've bought a horse I'm scared of and want to put off riding it as much as possible'

Horses need to work just as humans do ... Somewhere there is a happy medium..

Blitz

Ps my 3 year old does 45 mins a day - 30 mins on ground work and 15 mins ridden .. Over the winter this will go to more ridden and less ground work.. Hacking mainly and no collection til she is at least 4...
 
blitznbobs said:
If I'm totally honest I think not enough work is done with young horses . While I don't believe in backing too young I do believe that a lot horses are Molly coddled too much...
Click to expand...

The work done with young horses doesn't necessarily have to involve riding though... Ground work is the most important thing at this stage, IMO. There are many ways to engage a young horse without having to put unnessecary pressure on it's joints.

But what you're doing with your horse doesn't sound too bad. More emphasis on ground work and a bit of light riding... Sounds ok. But personally I just wouldn't be doing it at three, I would certainly wait until 4 at the very earliest. I'm not convinced that backing so young doesn't have any effects on the horse's well being later on in life. Not critising you- obviously every horse is an individual!
 
I prefer to break young (3 usually, but sometimes a mature 2 year old), then hack quietly, and regularly but not over often, for a year. Gets them moving forwards, gets them fit for a rider, can start to introduce the idea of jumping logs etc as they get stronger. Then, as a four year old, start gentle schooling, introducing pole work and small jumps and circles etc, still with lots of hacking, maybe the odd quiet show just for the experience (say RC small jumping classes, or baby dressage). By 5, they are then considered ready to start work properly, and ready to start competing properly. By this point, they should have the rhythm, balance, engagement and submission that gives them good scores in a prelim, as the straight line hacking work will have developed this (I guess I mean hacking to include schooling in thats sense!), and will be ready to start adjusting the canter to do some jumping, and their first events. By the time they are six, they may be inexperienced, but they shouldn't be 'green' IMO.
 
There is some variability between horses, there's no doubt, but big, slow maturing horses should be a good year behind the tb types. My gelding will be backed next spring at the earliest; I have put it back from this year because he is still growing so much. And his coordination is nowhere near yet, even though he's good on the long reins. Interestingly his mother was backed at 5, as soon as he was weaned. She was competing within about 6 months and sold on at 7. Reading between the lines she was a difficult horse and I can imagine she would be if overfaced. Too much too soon for these types I suspect.
 
Nudibranch said:
There is some variability between horses, there's no doubt, but big, slow maturing horses should be a good year behind the tb types. My gelding will be backed next spring at the earliest; I have put it back from this year because he is still growing so much. And his coordination is nowhere near yet, even though he's good on the long reins. Interestingly his mother was backed at 5, as soon as he was weaned. She was competing within about 6 months and sold on at 7. Reading between the lines she was a difficult horse and I can imagine she would be if overfaced. Too much too soon for these types I suspect.
Click to expand...

But then I've had more success with breaking Clydesdales at 2, turning away, then starting to ride as three year olds. You can't ask much of them, as they can be unbalanced and ungainly, but they strengthen quicker and are then easier to start working once they have developed. If we waited until they were fully developed, they'd be 7-9!!!
 
Don't forget though that young horses living out in a herd, on unlevel ground (say, a sloping field) don't just stand in one spot, growing. They charge about, piaffe, passage, rear, buck and spin. On that basis I see no harm with doing something with a young horse with a lightweight and competent rider. My youngster is 4 and has just had his first ridden canter, out on a big field, he is going cubbing a couple of times and hacking about. I really can't see it is doing him much harm, even though he is still growing.
 
Clodagh said:
Don't forget though that young horses living out in a herd, on unlevel ground (say, a sloping field) don't just stand in one spot, growing. They charge about, piaffe, passage, rear, buck and spin. On that basis I see no harm with doing something with a young horse with a lightweight and competent rider. My youngster is 4 and has just had his first ridden canter, out on a big field, he is going cubbing a couple of times and hacking about. I really can't see it is doing him much harm, even though he is still growing.
Click to expand...

You're right about all the different 'dressage' movements that horses naturally do in a herd. However, this does not mean that they can execute the same movements properly under saddle. Many novice riders will see a their horse do a piaffe, for example, in the field and assume 'teaching' the horse how to so it under saddle- what happens? The horse becomes stiff, unresponsive and unhappy due to poor aids, inconsistency and, most importantly, an interfering, unbalanced rider. Yes, the horse does these things in the field but that does not mean it is capable of doing the same under saddle with the additional weight of a rider at such a young age. Instead, my approach would be to leave piaffe e.t.c for the field whilst it's v. Young, allowing the horse to fully develop the muscles it needs to perform these movements. Then begin doing them inhand/liberty- this develops understanding of the human and you can begin asking for a higher degree of collection, again without the weight of the rider to contest with. Only after all this is well established would I begin these harder movements under saddle (aged 5 at the least).
 
I bought a baby cob as a three yr old, broken to ride and drive, at the viewing he literally trembled when being tacked up, worked well in the school though with rider wielding a whip, came home, lightly ridden, then came the day my niece clipped his bum while mounting and he totally panic'd, took off bucking, got a real fright, wouldn't be mounted again without taking off bucking, fear based, not pain, all checked, took him back to basics, kept putting dummy legs up, eventually accepted them, had the winter off messing about in the field, (groundwork kept up) with his older steady friends, now as a 4yr old, he is still in light work, hacking in walk and trot, showing in hand and is a well rounded young man, no whips needed, consistency and ground rules, they let you know how fast they can learn without losing the plot
 
IGWLC said:
You're right about all the different 'dressage' movements that horses naturally do in a herd. However, this does not mean that they can execute the same movements properly under saddle. Many novice riders will see a their horse do a piaffe, for example, in the field and assume 'teaching' the horse how to so it under saddle- what happens? The horse becomes stiff, unresponsive and unhappy due to poor aids, inconsistency and, most importantly, an interfering, unbalanced rider. Yes, the horse does these things in the field but that does not mean it is capable of doing the same under saddle with the additional weight of a rider at such a young age. Instead, my approach would be to leave piaffe e.t.c for the field whilst it's v. Young, allowing the horse to fully develop the muscles it needs to perform these movements. Then begin doing them inhand/liberty- this develops understanding of the human and you can begin asking for a higher degree of collection, again without the weight of the rider to contest with. Only after all this is well established would I begin these harder movements under saddle (aged 5 at the least).
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. Sorry, I didn't mean I would ask a young horse, while ridden, to perform these movements. I did mean that as he can do all that in the field I think he can do a canter in a straight line with a competent rider without causing any harm.
 
I appreciate that this will probably get me shot down in flames but hear me out, please, even if you disagree with me.

We breed racehorses to race ourselves. Some of them are broken in to harness at the start of their second year and brought on slowly to begin their 2 year old careers. At any point that they are not handling the work for whatever reason they are turned out and brought in again at 3. If during their 3 year old career the same happens, they generally get turned out until they are 5 and then race on for a number of years.

Some of them aren't broken until they are 3 or 4 as they are known as late developers or show themselves to be late developers, although these have been handled extensively and had the harness on them at some point before the full breaking process starts.

Our horses are not over raced at any age, even when 5/6/7. We have six broodmares who all raced between the ages of 2 and 8, none of whom have had any joint problems (they are 20, 13, 12, 11, 10 and 8). My own riding mare was broken and trained as a 2yo, raced at 3, 4 and 5, was backed at 3 and started hunting at 4.

Just giving my personal perspective.
 
Crosshill Pacers said:
I appreciate that this will probably get me shot down in flames but hear me out, please, even if you disagree with me.

We breed racehorses to race ourselves. Some of them are broken in to harness at the start of their second year and brought on slowly to begin their 2 year old careers. At any point that they are not handling the work for whatever reason they are turned out and brought in again at 3. If during their 3 year old career the same happens, they generally get turned out until they are 5 and then race on for a number of years.

Some of them aren't broken until they are 3 or 4 as they are known as late developers or show themselves to be late developers, although these have been handled extensively and had the harness on them at some point before the full breaking process starts.

Our horses are not over raced at any age, even when 5/6/7. We have six broodmares who all raced between the ages of 2 and 8, none of whom have had any joint problems (they are 20, 13, 12, 11, 10 and 8). My own riding mare was broken and trained as a 2yo, raced at 3, 4 and 5, was backed at 3 and started hunting at 4.

Just giving my personal perspective.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Do you do all the ground work e.t.c with all horses before backing? And before starting fast work do you lightly hack and do basic dressage with them for a year or so? IMO, too little importance is placed on slowly bringing young horses into work. If they have short working lives it's likely that you won't see damage from previous work coming on as they're not in any work where it would become a problem, and so, it is ignored. Are they TB types- these seem to generally get backed earlier, have short working lives, then get retired as breeding stallions/brood mares/companion horses/sold on for other purposes. I'm not saying that this is what I think you do (I know very little about harness racing) but with national hunt racing this is often the case.
 
i backed mine at 3, had her broken in at 3.5 and rode over summer, established very very basics - and turned her away [until jan]

she will be 4.5 almost when I have her re-backed - [late foal].... in jan - and then rising 5 when i start competing really

I think for her thats all about right - she needs to mature physically and mentally... and doing well for her time off

its down to each individual horse imo.....

some people back at bang on 3rd birthday - i did but literally get on/get off - walk - finish...nothing as much as hacking

each to their own
 
noodle_ said:
some people back at bang on 3rd birthday - i did but literally get on/get off - walk - finish...nothing as much as hacking
Click to expand...

Yet most people seem to think that backing involves hard, fast work the minute they get on. Good for you taking it nice and slow with your horse.
 
IGWLC said:
Yet most people seem to think that backing involves hard, fast work the minute they get on. Good for you taking it nice and slow with your horse.
Click to expand...

Those people are ignorant of even the basics of fitness training. It's not limited to backing, I see many who will get on after not riding for two months and start charging about and jumping, often within the first 5min as these people generally have no concept of warming up either. It is sad.
 
IGWLC said:
Yet most people seem to think that backing involves hard, fast work the minute they get on. Good for you taking it nice and slow with your horse.
Click to expand...

i started too though - and i hold my hands up I WAS WRONG.....i started to push as i wanted to 'go' but quickly saw the light

I sent her away for backing at 3.5, she came back walking nothing more...since then shes been build up slowly and does canter under saddle when pushed, but ive no reason too , shes very willing but also very tricky.
- so at almost 4 ive stopped riding her and just letting her have a nice routine of in/out/brush/tea see ya...... she loves it :D as do i as the difference in my horse is incredible- shes happy.

She is being sent away next year probably nearer spring in all honesty so nearer 4.5 to be broken and schooled - ive no rush. :] but by then i believe she is more mature physically and mentally

She has done 3 jumps in her entire life too - once was jumping out of a field, one jumping out of the arena - and one with me one the lunge at 3.5 to see what her problem was.... she can fly

she will not be jumped until she is 4.5 minimum

if i had my time again with her id have dumped her in a field and picked her back up at 4.... live and learn :]
 
We have anything from 6-19 foals a year, so when it comes to backing them all it is a long old job.
They live out in the fields, practically wild until they are 2, when some are brought in if they need anything, but non will see a rug until they are 3-4, again depending if they need anything.

We usually start breaking them in from around this time of year, inhand walking, bit, bridle, saddle, lunge, sometimes long rein, free school, rider on, walk trot canter, in very small amounts, some will see a pole/raised pole, but most don't. Then they go back out until feburary of their 4th year, when we up the work load lightly, aim some of them for shows in april, some don't go out until around Hickstead time. But most of ours are ridden for age classes, so they need to be doing Hickstead, Addington, Arena etc to become more attractive to local buyers. This is only if they are mature enough, I have a 6 year old in the field who will be broken with this years 3yos as he just hasn't been ready!

Normally for the 4yos after the September hickstead show/arena, they go out in the field and are left until the following year maybe end of Decemeber, they have plently of time to grow and this method has never let us down. We did it with our older horses who are now 15 and they are absolutely fine.
 
khalswitz said:
But then I've had more success with breaking Clydesdales at 2, turning away, then starting to ride as three year olds. You can't ask much of them, as they can be unbalanced and ungainly, but they strengthen quicker and are then easier to start working once they have developed. If we waited until they were fully developed, they'd be 7-9!!!
Click to expand...

I agree, but surely you're not asking your Clydies to go from zero to dressage competition in less than 6 months?! It's one thing to back, turn away and bring on later but another completely to back and then work through to competing within such a short time. It seems my gelding's mother has had the final say anyway - in her behaviour ;)
 
Nudibranch said:
I agree, but surely you're not asking your Clydies to go from zero to dressage competition in less than 6 months?! It's one thing to back, turn away and bring on later but another completely to back and then work through to competing within such a short time. It seems my gelding's mother has had the final say anyway - in her behaviour ;)
Click to expand...

God no. Not allowed to compete dressage or ridden showing classes until 4 yo anyway, so we aim for that. Broken as 2 year olds, turned away, then hacked and schooled in all three paces as three year olds (in fields or very large arenas, NOT on a 20m circle as they just fall over), and possibly over poles if balance is good (no point if not as Clydsdales learn to crush poles very easily!). By the spring they are four they should be ready to go do novice ridden classes, but dressage is well hard on Clydies esp a 20x40, so the simple prelims are aimed for by the time they are well into their 4yo year or even 5 if they are very leggy/trippy. However they will have been worked in all three paces, jumping, and possibly even learning about lateral work and lengthening strides at home in the big spaces by the time they are at end of year 4/starting year 5. We don't do lots in a small arena as that is where they will struggle - but we certainly are schooling and working them.

Then they are also being broken to drive and driven alongside, so ridden work probably isn't as intense as your aimed-for-dressage horse.
 
Last edited:
IGWLC said:
Interesting. Do you do all the ground work e.t.c with all horses before backing? And before starting fast work do you lightly hack and do basic dressage with them for a year or so? IMO, too little importance is placed on slowly bringing young horses into work. If they have short working lives it's likely that you won't see damage from previous work coming on as they're not in any work where it would become a problem, and so, it is ignored. Are they TB types- these seem to generally get backed earlier, have short working lives, then get retired as breeding stallions/brood mares/companion horses/sold on for other purposes. I'm not saying that this is what I think you do (I know very little about harness racing) but with national hunt racing this is often the case.
Click to expand...

Very few of our horses are broken to ride (currently 3 of 13 of a 'working' age, although 5 of these are active broodmares). We drive them primarily; for horses that will be targeted at a 2 year old season they will come in at the beginning of January to be harnessed up, long reined and walked in the cart. This takes about 12 weeks. Once they are comfortable walking they are taught to trot (not pace) at a steady speed for no more than 15 minutes a day. At all times they have only been in basic harness. After this they are gaited (taught to pace) with the aid of hopples (which they will subsequently race in). They only pace slowly at home and once they are fluent in their movement they go back to trotting in basic harness. After 8 weeks of jogging they begin workouts in full harness at the racetrack, working down from a certain time over a mile (anywhere between three minutes and 2 minutes 50 seconds), each workout getting four seconds faster. If all goes well they race once they get to a certain time - they can't race before June and the season ends in October. Any horse that appears to be struggling to progress through working down the clock will be turned out. Any horse that looks more of a three year old than a two year old will start mid-summer and come out towards the end of the season for one or maybe two races to educate it ready for the next year. Any horse that doesn't look like making a three year old will be left until four or five, with the initial 12 week breaking process happening when they are 3 before they are left out to mature.

We have a four year old who has raced twice this year and has been turned away until next year. He was broken and trained down as a two year old but sustained a minor tendon injury (vet advised six weeks off work) so he was turned away until this year to allow him to mature. We also started the season with a three year old who was trained last year and raced twice before being turned away; he wasn't working down the clock as comfortably as expected and wasn't as strong as his sister had been at that age so he was turned out. As with her, he'll come back in at five to race.

A friend retired a pacer last summer aged 10 who had been racing since he was 2. He'd raced a total of 104 times without injury and has been retired to a riding home.

Different horses have different lengths of careers in our sport, fillies that are targeted at stakes races (at 2, 3 and 4) and are successful usually go for breeding, although some race on to 7/8 years old. Geldings race from any age up to any age really (there's a 14 year old currently racing, and a number of 12 year olds). When you consider that harness racers can race up to 25 times in a season (as opposed to TBs who race up to those ages) that's a fair age to still be racing at. I would say it is quite similar to national hunt racing though in most regards.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top