is winter an excuse for thin horses ?

It has been a hard winter and we spent a lot of money on hay and feed, but I think ours look the same as this time last year, perhaps even better. My mum's horse actually looks more plump than I've ever seen him (which is good because he has taken a long time to come from looking a little under... he's not fat but looks healthy at last!). The others are lean and lacking muscle but are not ribby and I'm pleased with their weight, given that the grass is coming through now too.

They all live out and I'd put it down to good shelter and plenty of quality hay. Our grazing is never great and they received plenty of hay morning and evening and also small supplementary feeds throughout winter, though nothing particularly calorific. We are phasing this out as the better grass comes in.

ETA: I'm another who would prefer to see a horse looking slimmer than chubbier! I'm only pleased that my mum's horse looks more rounded at last because he's been in poor health since we bought him and it seems he has finally come good and is back to being a relatively good doer.
 
Mine have dropped weight this winter for the first time ever (had one horse for over 21years)
I moved so had less land this year and its been so boggy they've used energy getting around the field....
 
But given mine are chunky WB's and a CB, all ribs highly visible and prominent hips wouldn't be appropriate through a winter coat! I can just about make out the youngster's ribs and he has a full coat still. I think that's enough.

Whereas my old tb mare, when fit had highly visible ribs, yet great muscle and topline. But that looks very different to an underweight horse. Prominent hips to me means that sunken, sallow, starved look, as opposed to being able to make out their structure.
 
Well I have 5 horses and the newest a little TB has lost weight over the winter to the point of being lean going towards thin. In no way is it down to "piss poor management" damn cheek !!! He also has no underlying causes is extremely well rugged and fed well, I have researched diets till I'm sick of feed. He has both ad lib and I mean proper ad lib hay ( very good quality) and haylege which he has never finished night or day.

The green shoots are coming thru and finally he looks better. I have never had a horse so difficult to maintain in over 30 years so guess its just him. His energy levels and his ability to do his job hasn't changed whatsoever. Some horses maybe like that and to say its "piss poor management" is an absolute joke.

Huffs and stamps off muttering all the way !!!!!!!:mad:
 
I agree hair density does make a huge difference to how much rib you can see all my horses are clipped and the two hunters have summer coats and are unrugged now ( they still come in at night) so yes his ribs are much more visible than on a hairy horse.
There's a sharpness and tautness of movement in a fit lean horse that is very different to an undernourished horse who a softer lethargic movement .
Condition scoring is a bit of a blunt instrument in that area.
 
I can only say from experience that my ponies have always done well (a bit too well oops) over Winter but I took on a TB X in very poor condition and brought him back to health, last year not knowing how he went into Winter, he did start to look a bit 'leaner' around November but I changed his feed & upped his hay & within around 8-9 days was looking great again, I was just learning how he did and took it day to day. I'm very proud of how he's turned out, I thought at first he was going to die within days of being brought to me. ❤
 
My 19 yr old tb always loses a bit of weight on and off over the winter. He's always rugged carefully and has ad-lib hay. One day he looks ok then the next he can look really ropey again.

He then looks a perfect weight for about 2 or 3 weeks once it starts to get milder, and then almost overnight he has a huge belly!! On Sunday he looked huge.
 
My 25 year old has dropped weight but my younger 17 year old has put it on dramatically. Both see the dentist every 6 months and I normally like them to come out a little lean in February ready for our flush of grass as the live out 24/7 now. The NF now has to be restricted whilst the big gal is on semi decent grass, hayed and fed 3 times a day. Vet has found no issues but has said most of it is muscle waste as I couldn't ride her for 6 months due to a cyst on the base of my spine and then the hard ground and snow. She went from being exercised nearly every day to nothing at all.

Once I get a bit more of a covering on her I will start bringing her back into work and hopefully her muscle will firm up but at her age I'm not expecting it to be as good as last year.
 
Mine is about 2.5 and I think it's an effect of a long winter, not a piss-poor management method. I think I'd rather have 2.5 than 2.5 at this time of year, because IMO I'd rather have to put a bit on than loose it. I suppose it matters how they live too- mine is outside, so that means winter had more of an effect on the body than maybe a horse stabled 24/7, but psychologically the horse is much happier. I'd be worried if it was the start of winter, but know when Dr Green finally appears I will get him u to a 3.
 
Stencilface said:
I think the trouble is, one mans lean is another ones thin :)
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Agreed!

Despite the wet this winter we had plenty of grass and mine didn't have much hay at all and despite this and not being rugged, two of my three are still a little plump - one is already confined to the fat paddock! The third is lean (he has been rugged all winter and is still rugged now) and looks bloody good IMO and is obviously feeling good as he's firing on all cylinders! But it won't be long before I'll be struggling to keep the weight off him too.

I like mine to lose a bit over the winter, afterall, it's what nature intended and it gives me a head start when the spring grass arrives.
 
I like mine to lose a bit over winter too. It's natural for them to do so my vet said and especially those prone to lami, it's beneficial to try and restore insulin metabolism.

Here is a link to the recent talk given by vets that was aired: http://www.bi-learn.co.uk/

Go to Equine, then follow the link to the talk.
 
It is natural for horses to drop off a bit in winter, and with age. still its no excuse for a horse to become starved. My horse doesn't winter as well as he used to and always drops off a bit, he gets conditioning feed etc. His condition score would go from good, to good/ moderate, but not thin thin.

You lot should see wild/ feral horses after a hard winter!
 
My two babies had two big growth spurts through the winter....so went from lean but healthy (how I want my babies to look) to looking quiet poor twice. No change in feed, big bale Haylage in the field. Older cobblet has stayed the same all winter. Got told by someone I was obviously neglecting the babies....she chose to ignore them being 2 inches taller behind!!!
 
No it's not an excuse. However, I had to feed more hard feed this year in addition to the adlib hay and haylage and it started much earlier. There just wasn't the nutrition in the forage no matter how good.

Did I let them walk around thin as an excuse? Of course not. At the moment everyone is on sacrafice paddocks and have been for nearly 3 weeks. I'd say I have at least 2 weeks until they can start going out on grass as growth is way behind. All big bale everything is gone. So now I'm plowing through 5 good sized small squares per day at €4 per bale. That's for 7. Talk about depressing. Still we have secured enough small squares for the summer which I thought would be impossible. Well as long as some grass is around at some stage.

Terri
 
eggs said:
I think a lot of horses have dropped weight this winter - some of mine included.

Speaking to my feed merchant the other day they have sold more conditioning cubes in the last few weeks than at any other time.

This has been a long winter with a late spring. Also a lot of last year's hay and haylage had a lower nutrional value than in previous years.
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This. My own horse has come out of winter leaner than I would like . . . despite being well rugged, stabled at night, having ad lib hay/haylage and two hard feeds a day. He looked fine in February, but the late Spring (and increase in workload now that he's out competing regularly) took its toll on him. Coat, hooves, skin all fine . . . just a little too lean (for me). He drops weight really quickly. As a consequence, I have changed his hard feed and for the past month he has been having a lunchtime feed. Now that the spring grass is finally coming through and that nasty cold wind has stopped whistling across his field, he is starting to pick up . . . not to mention all that linseed ;).

Some horses do drop weight quickly - and they are not necessarily recipients of "piss poor management." :mad:

P
 
My very poor doer actually put weight on this winter. I put him out on loan over the summer and he came back end of September like a hat rack. I was fuming. Anyway after lots of heartache we found he had serious liver problems caused by the weightloss. Despite this by nov/ Dec he was looking a good weight by Feb he had beautiful topline forming on his neck and looked very well. All of this despite not being in work.

He was fed proper adlib haylage, countrywide cheap chaff, micronised linseed, d&h build up cubes and Speedibeat. For about a month now he's just on chaff and blue chip and still looking marvellous.
 
A very good point Dizzy Socks.
Im happy for and expect my horse to loose a few pounds over winter, not to be thin but to maybe go up a hole on his girth by the end of the season. If he was up to full condition now, then i would have to restrict his food intake come the spring. He lives out 24/7 and i would rather he spent 6hrs a day in a stable with hay in the winter rather than extended periods stood in when the grass is growing and the sun is out.
 
Maybe iv worded this wrong as i mean horses that if you saw at a show in summer looking so thin youd feel like reporting it, NOT lean horses coming out if winter but horses that are THIN or emaciated !!!! But people dont seem as shocked or bothered as they say oh it was a bad winter.
 
horseandshoes77 said:
Maybe iv worded this wrong as i mean horses that if you saw at a show in summer looking so thin youd feel like reporting it, NOT lean horses coming out if winter but horses that are THIN or emaciated !!!! But people dont seem as shocked or bothered as they say oh it was a bad winter.
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It's a very subjective subject, one persons lean is another's emaciated, I have my doubts that many folk could accurately judge a horses condition score to be honest. A lass at my yard has a fab wee cob who is, when you compare her to a condition chart, perfect, yet some folk are telling the lass her mare needs weight on, madness! There are no ribs on show, but can be felt reasonably easily, the mare is well muscled, decent top line for coming out of winter and a lovely round cob bottom, she looks a lot like the entrants of native cob classes in the 60/70s before fat became 'normal'.

I fear because fat is the new normal, folk are mistaking horses at a correct weight or very slightly below as emaciated.
 
tallyho! said:
It's easier to condition a horse than it is to put it on a diet.
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It certainly is I would much rather see retired older horses who can not be ridden coming out of winter thin as its very difficult to reduce the wieght of a horse you can't exercise in summer.
 
I think there is a difference between thin horses and those that have lost weight does have something to do with this winter just gone.

This winter has been very tough for a lot of people and a lot of horses have lost weight. The quality of the hay from last summer is not as good as I should have been.

Despite extra feed and hay and adequate rugging two of mine have lost weight.

I do not think that it should be totally responsible for thinner horses but it has not helped at all.

In these hard times , for many people ,animals may not have been fed the extra they really needed. I know for one that it has cost me a third more than a normal winter. We have only just turned ours out into a small summer field and will not be turning out inti the bigger summer field until we get a better growth of grass.
 
horseandshoes77 said:
Maybe iv worded this wrong as i mean horses that if you saw at a show in summer looking so thin youd feel like reporting it, NOT lean horses coming out if winter but horses that are THIN or emaciated !!!! But people dont seem as shocked or bothered as they say oh it was a bad winter.
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You have to make a distinction between thin and emaciated they are not the same thing, two of my horses finished the winter thin but they where in hard work and I had worked at getting them thin so they could work hard , they had lots if muscle .
A horse may be slim even thin and suffer no health issues as a result the same can not be said of being even moderately overwieght especially if they are in hard work .
That's not in any way to say I condone people who don't feed their horses properly but not every horse who you can see the ribs on is not being cared for properly.
Some old horses do begin to struggle to maintain their wieght in winter they loose muscle as they age ( as do we humans) which does not help them either some have age related metabolic issues that makes their digestion less efficent
Some will suffer with dental issues and some of these horses will struggle to eat enough to maintain a perfect wieght as long as the horse is happy well managed as a health plan in place and is monitored by a vet I don't see the issue if the alternative is PTS .
When struggling to maintain wieght slips to something more serious then owners usually have friends and vets etc to nudge them when the time comes as it is difficult for people to see sometimes when you see the horse daily.
However round here I have to say I don't see thin horses ,fat horses are much more common .
 
I think there are always underlying issues but that doesn't necessarily mean poor management - my big un came to us in December a decent weight but we kept him out when he'd been in at night up til then. He dropped a lot of weight in feb to the point where I was ready to call the vet, but we realised he had a heavy redworm burden and treated him for that. He's had as much hay as he can eat since december, three feeds daily and been stabled overnight since Feb, but he's a stressy horse and I think that contributes also. On top of that the quality of hay I'm told wasn't great around here due to the poor summer and for a while all I could get was late cut hay which I fed them adlib. After much faffing with feeds and a course of wormers he's putting the weight back on now.

The only other pony I've ever had with winter weight issues was as a result of anaemia which also took a while to diagnose. My other two are a really nice weight despite being fed the same hay in liberal amounts.
 
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I've got a thin horse coming out of winter but she was seriously ill last year & although better now, she isn't the same horse that she was.
She's a Blue Cross horse & the field officer came out to check her recently, I must admit I was worried about the visit but fortunately she was happy with my management of her.
The horse has a shiny coat & is full of beans so I'm hoping that some Dr Green will sort her out.
I'm not going to ride her though until she fills out as I'd be embarrased to be seen out in publc on her.
 
I'm still rejoicing that I can see my horses ribs :D He lives on air in the summer, and I normally struggle to keep him fit and the right weight, plus he's (hopefully!) recovering from a lameness atm so being a bit lighter is doing him no harm. Give him a week on spring grass and I'll have the grey heffalump back :rolleyes:
 
Well my oldie whp wasn't clipped this year (normally clipped out all year round for showing but he's retired now) has a mammoth coat, is out during the day and in at night with ample feed and hay has dropped this year as normally by this time the grass is through. They are also getting hay in the field still and they are all looking a bit poorer than normal and are getting ample amounts.

We have just switched to haylege as hay supplier has run out due to long winter and crap yield last year so hoping this picks them up. The stabled ones always have a little left in the mornings so getting enough and the ones out are good doers but greedy and have nothing left but are picking about the field fine every morning.

I don't think its piss poor management but fields are waterlogged and destroyed and last summer was pretty much a ten degrees warmer winter IMO
So I think that's a bit harsh and blatantly condescending just because you have had horses that have apparently done well regardless but having had horses for 24+ years I've not known as bad winters after horrendous summers like we have had over the last few years.
 
I went to a talk at my vets surgery about lami - the lecturer said that after metabolic syndromes the number one cause of lami was horses that aren't allowed to 'become lean' during the winter months. I can't remember the exact science behind it but it was something to do with the regulation of insulin, and we disrupt this by over rugging and over feeding during the winter to keep our horses looking as they do in the winter. So when spring comes around and the sugary grass is coming through, we have pudgy horses whose bodies haven't had chance over the winter to build up the insulin store they need to deal with spring grass (they've used it all on the digestion of hard feed and sugary haylege etc). So vets advice was let your horse drop a few kgs in the winter as its kinder to them come the spring :) apologies if the science doesn't make sense, the talk was last year and is a little fuzzy :)
 
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