Isabell Suspended!
- Thread starter Meg2
- Start date
Nailed
Well-Known Member
Well what can I say...
I hope she's not guilty, As that would be a real shame..
Lou x
I hope she's not guilty, As that would be a real shame..
Lou x
Meg2
Well-Known Member
I agree, Dressage really doesn't need this!
Maesfen
Extremely Old Nag!
For a moment there I thought you meant SN!
Halfstep
Well-Known Member
Crikey. Isn't that the same substance as Cian O'Connor got done for when he was stripped of the gold medal at Athens?
Isabel should really, truly, have known better - and her team.
(but on the other hand, good news for Laura B if Isabel is out of the Europeans...........if she can beat Totilas she could have a real chance at gold!)
Isabel should really, truly, have known better - and her team.
(but on the other hand, good news for Laura B if Isabel is out of the Europeans...........if she can beat Totilas she could have a real chance at gold!)
Meg2
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Crikey. Isn't that the same substance as Cian O'Connor got done for when he was stripped of the gold medal at Athens?
Isabel should really, truly, have known better - and her team.
(but on the other hand, good news for Laura B if Isabel is out of the Europeans...........if she can beat Totilas she could have a real chance at gold!)
[/ QUOTE ]
If not the same, then very similiar.
Crikey. Isn't that the same substance as Cian O'Connor got done for when he was stripped of the gold medal at Athens?
Isabel should really, truly, have known better - and her team.
(but on the other hand, good news for Laura B if Isabel is out of the Europeans...........if she can beat Totilas she could have a real chance at gold!)
[/ QUOTE ]
If not the same, then very similiar.
spaniel
Well-Known Member
Well if she is proved guilty I hope this shakes the dresage world up a bit. Far too many egos involved at the moment.
RussianGirl
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Well if she is proved guilty I hope this shakes the dresage world up a bit. Far too many egos involved at the moment.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this; an awful lot of the Russian rider, and several of the foreign riders that I have competed with can be the most arrogant people; never thanking judges or stewards, not asking and just barging other riders and horses out of the way. Some of them do need to realise that they aren't invincible.
Well if she is proved guilty I hope this shakes the dresage world up a bit. Far too many egos involved at the moment.
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with this; an awful lot of the Russian rider, and several of the foreign riders that I have competed with can be the most arrogant people; never thanking judges or stewards, not asking and just barging other riders and horses out of the way. Some of them do need to realise that they aren't invincible.
lucretia
Well-Known Member
i think you will find that this is going to be a disaster for horse sport in general, not just dressage
katelarge
Well-Known Member
IF it's true, it's just so sad that people feel the need to administer such incredibly unsuitable sustances to keep their horses under control. Give the poor thing some turnout!
Onyxia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
i think you will find that this is going to be a disaster for horse sport in general, not just dressage
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are right
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
i think you will find that this is going to be a disaster for horse sport in general, not just dressage
[/ QUOTE ]
I think you are right
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
tillyd
Well-Known Member
Isabell is one of the nicest and most hardworking people you could hope to meet and very professional. I really hope there has been a mistake.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not APPROVED for horses, in the technical veterinary sense of the word, but it's very commonly prescribed and used. It's one of the "30 day tranqs" often prescribed by vets for convalescing horses and, depending on the horse, it can be a godsend. I also know a few people who start horses, mostly for racing, who would cop to using it as "standard practice" if you asked (as there's nothing illegal in using it if the horse is not competing, although presumably food chain regulations here might mean that's not the case here). Unfortunately less scrupulous folks also use it to "settle" horses for sale or show. For quite some time no one tested for it but when they started quite a few people got caught. Then a few years ago, in Florida, they tested for the "old school" equivalent again and got another load of people.
Not that anyone cares
but one of the first anti-psychotic drugs is very closely related to a common cattle wormer. They noted the anti-anxiety effect it had on cattle and parlayed that knowledge into a drug that arguably helped many people before more effective, less sedating alternatives - like the ones we're discussing - were developed.
I really hope it's a mistake. But I have to say, experience would suggest it's naive to assume this and similar practices are unknown at this level.
Very sad for the sport.
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not APPROVED for horses, in the technical veterinary sense of the word, but it's very commonly prescribed and used. It's one of the "30 day tranqs" often prescribed by vets for convalescing horses and, depending on the horse, it can be a godsend. I also know a few people who start horses, mostly for racing, who would cop to using it as "standard practice" if you asked (as there's nothing illegal in using it if the horse is not competing, although presumably food chain regulations here might mean that's not the case here). Unfortunately less scrupulous folks also use it to "settle" horses for sale or show. For quite some time no one tested for it but when they started quite a few people got caught. Then a few years ago, in Florida, they tested for the "old school" equivalent again and got another load of people.
Not that anyone cares
I really hope it's a mistake. But I have to say, experience would suggest it's naive to assume this and similar practices are unknown at this level.
CastleMouse
Well-Known Member
Onyxia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not APPROVED for horses, in the technical veterinary sense of the word, but it's very commonly prescribed and used. It's one of the "30 day tranqs" often prescribed by vets for convalescing horses and, depending on the horse, it can be a godsend. I also know a few people who start horses, mostly for racing, who would cop to using it as "standard practice" if you asked (as there's nothing illegal in using it if the horse is not competing, although presumably food chain regulations here might mean that's not the case here). Unfortunately less scrupulous folks also use it to "settle" horses for sale or show. For quite some time no one tested for it but when they started quite a few people got caught. Then a few years ago, in Florida, they tested for the "old school" equivalent again and got another load of people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh,but surely if it is not approved for horses,no ttesting has been done into how safe it is?
If testing has been done,why did it not gain approval for the circumstances you described(for which I can understand the use of a heavy duty sedative,well all except selling
)?
[ QUOTE ]
Not that anyone cares
but one of the first anti-psychotic drugs is very closely related to a common cattle wormer. They noted the anti-anxiety effect it had on cattle and parlayed that knowledge into a drug that arguably helped many people before more effective, less sedating alternatives - like the ones we're discussing - were developed.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh,am I very much in need of a life or did anyone else find it very intersting?
Out of intrest,which group/drug was that?
[ QUOTE ]
I really hope it's a mistake. But I have to say, experience would suggest it's naive to assume this and similar practices are unknown at this level.
Very sad for the sport.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know,I know
As with the recent German showjumping scandal,it makes me wonder at what point you sell integrity for medals....
[ QUOTE ]
Wonder what the explanation will be? There is no reason to find that drug in a horse,its not even used for horses FFS.
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, it's not APPROVED for horses, in the technical veterinary sense of the word, but it's very commonly prescribed and used. It's one of the "30 day tranqs" often prescribed by vets for convalescing horses and, depending on the horse, it can be a godsend. I also know a few people who start horses, mostly for racing, who would cop to using it as "standard practice" if you asked (as there's nothing illegal in using it if the horse is not competing, although presumably food chain regulations here might mean that's not the case here). Unfortunately less scrupulous folks also use it to "settle" horses for sale or show. For quite some time no one tested for it but when they started quite a few people got caught. Then a few years ago, in Florida, they tested for the "old school" equivalent again and got another load of people.
[/ QUOTE ]
Ahh,but surely if it is not approved for horses,no ttesting has been done into how safe it is?
If testing has been done,why did it not gain approval for the circumstances you described(for which I can understand the use of a heavy duty sedative,well all except selling
[ QUOTE ]
Not that anyone cares
[/ QUOTE ]
Ohh,am I very much in need of a life or did anyone else find it very intersting?
Out of intrest,which group/drug was that?
[ QUOTE ]
I really hope it's a mistake. But I have to say, experience would suggest it's naive to assume this and similar practices are unknown at this level.
[/ QUOTE ]
I know,I know
As with the recent German showjumping scandal,it makes me wonder at what point you sell integrity for medals....
Quadro
Well-Known Member
all of this is going to turn this years europeans into a big joke, of course this would happen the year they are in britain!!! typical
GermanyJo
Well-Known Member
Never met Isabell personally , so not fair for me to comment on how hard working or 'nice' she is , but I have seen her working horses in before competitions and 'schooling' afterwards and it is not a pretty sight so to be honest I am not that surprised.
polyphonic
Well-Known Member
Er, innocent UNTIL PROVEN guilty comes to mind!
Meg2
Well-Known Member
The gist of her press statement is that the horse suffers from "shivers" and was treated with the drug... the vet said it would have cleared.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
It's good to know someone else lacks a life, Anima.
First the wormer/anti-psychotic thing:
phe·no·thi·azine
Pronunciation: "fE-nO-'thI-&-"zEn
Function: noun
1 : a greenish yellow crystalline compoundC12H9NS used as an anthelmintic and insecticide especially in veterinary practice called also thiodiphenylamine
2 : any of various phenothiazinederivatives (as chlorpromazine) that are used as tranquilizing agents especially in the treatment of schizophrenia
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
http://jcp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/20/1/1.pdf Page 3, middle of the first column.
And a google of other references if you care to troll through them.
As to animal use, I'm really not sure of the protocol here and understand it's different in Europe because of the food chain issues.
"Approval" for veterinary medications (I'm not sure if that's the official term or if that's even a process veterinary medications have to undergo) is obviously less stringent than for people and has more to do with the clams marketers can make than anything else. There are lots of meds commonly used for animals that aren't safe for people except under very specific circumstances, if at all. And even for people there is allowance for "off label" use, where a medication is used for something other than its primary purpose, just with the understanding that the pharmaceutical company makes no claim either way. The attraction of the newer options is that they don't "sedate" the horse in the traditional sense so are less likely to cause some of the problems connected to meds like acepromazine.
That said, there are risks and hopefully vets discuss them accordingly. I do know Reserpine, another similarly used drug, has been implicated in a very specific type of pneumonia. The real problem comes if the horse gets ill and the owner doesn't 'fess up to giving it the medication so it can't be treated properly. But all sorts of drugs have side effects, people just have to know them and not assume anything comes without risk.
So vets aren't doing anything wrong, from a professional point of view, when they give meds like the one being discussed. The problem comes when the use contravenes rules of the sport.
First the wormer/anti-psychotic thing:
phe·no·thi·azine
Pronunciation: "fE-nO-'thI-&-"zEn
Function: noun
1 : a greenish yellow crystalline compoundC12H9NS used as an anthelmintic and insecticide especially in veterinary practice called also thiodiphenylamine
2 : any of various phenothiazinederivatives (as chlorpromazine) that are used as tranquilizing agents especially in the treatment of schizophrenia
Merriam-Webster's Medical Dictionary, © 2002 Merriam-Webster, Inc.
http://jcp.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/20/1/1.pdf Page 3, middle of the first column.
And a google of other references if you care to troll through them.
As to animal use, I'm really not sure of the protocol here and understand it's different in Europe because of the food chain issues.
"Approval" for veterinary medications (I'm not sure if that's the official term or if that's even a process veterinary medications have to undergo) is obviously less stringent than for people and has more to do with the clams marketers can make than anything else. There are lots of meds commonly used for animals that aren't safe for people except under very specific circumstances, if at all. And even for people there is allowance for "off label" use, where a medication is used for something other than its primary purpose, just with the understanding that the pharmaceutical company makes no claim either way. The attraction of the newer options is that they don't "sedate" the horse in the traditional sense so are less likely to cause some of the problems connected to meds like acepromazine.
That said, there are risks and hopefully vets discuss them accordingly. I do know Reserpine, another similarly used drug, has been implicated in a very specific type of pneumonia. The real problem comes if the horse gets ill and the owner doesn't 'fess up to giving it the medication so it can't be treated properly. But all sorts of drugs have side effects, people just have to know them and not assume anything comes without risk.
So vets aren't doing anything wrong, from a professional point of view, when they give meds like the one being discussed. The problem comes when the use contravenes rules of the sport.
Onyxia
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
It's good to know someone else lacks a life, Anima.
[/ QUOTE ]
It's a very interisting subject though
I had a feeling it would be chlorpromazine,it's so often refered to as the daddy of anti phycotics,and with good reason not many as old still so widely used today.
It's funny really,we always think of docters toiling away untill one stands up and says "horah,I have found something wonderfull" that we forget some of the greatest advances in modern medicine are due as much to luck as hard work.
Drugs have always been found to be of use for things they were not designed for,a side effect for one can be the treatment another desperatly needs,freely admit the idea of a schizophrenia med having a place treating horses stil seems odd..although given some of the horses I have known it probably shouldnt
As for the lady herself,I really hope there is a genuine reason behind the decision to use this drug-since the public seem intent on holding onto the idea that horse sports are full of posh cheats to have someone of her level caught cheating would do far more damage then any amount of bling,earmuffs and bed hopping allegations could ever do.
On a personal note,too many idols have fallen recently
I'm not sure if getting tougher or lightening the rules is the way forward,but if the FEI keep banning everything soon we wont even be able to give top horses hard feed without proving that it wont enhance performance
As an easy example,OH is on steriods for nasty exema(sp?
) outbreaks,it wont make him run any faster but will keep a medical condition in check and improve it,maybe we need to rethink zero tolerance and look more at what level a drug starts to affect performance.
We ALL want to see our sports given the press and TV time other sports have,so maybe a "purge" now will be for the freater good long term.
It's good to know someone else lacks a life, Anima.
[/ QUOTE ]
I had a feeling it would be chlorpromazine,it's so often refered to as the daddy of anti phycotics,and with good reason not many as old still so widely used today.
It's funny really,we always think of docters toiling away untill one stands up and says "horah,I have found something wonderfull" that we forget some of the greatest advances in modern medicine are due as much to luck as hard work.
Drugs have always been found to be of use for things they were not designed for,a side effect for one can be the treatment another desperatly needs,freely admit the idea of a schizophrenia med having a place treating horses stil seems odd..although given some of the horses I have known it probably shouldnt
As for the lady herself,I really hope there is a genuine reason behind the decision to use this drug-since the public seem intent on holding onto the idea that horse sports are full of posh cheats to have someone of her level caught cheating would do far more damage then any amount of bling,earmuffs and bed hopping allegations could ever do.
On a personal note,too many idols have fallen recently
As an easy example,OH is on steriods for nasty exema(sp?
We ALL want to see our sports given the press and TV time other sports have,so maybe a "purge" now will be for the freater good long term.
127
Well-Known Member
Isabell has posted a message on her website, addressing this issue, but stating that she gave Whisper the substance on the adcive of her vet to deal with its suspected "Shivers". She states that both she and the vet were aware at the time of administering the substance to the horse on the 16th May that it included a banned substance, yet she still chose to give it to the horse and then compete him on the 30th. Whilst she states that this substance was not given to impact on the horses' performance, in my opinion, it was far too risky to give it to the horse so soon to taking it to a show, and she has to understand that for that reason, she has come into the line of fire. In my opinion, it was a very unprofessional move on her behalf, and somthing that she may very well live to regret - especially with the problems that the German team have also currently experienced.
It brings to light just how many professionals have not only given these substances to their horses, but how brazen they have been about it. Surely to stop this happening, the FEI must take a stand and impose lifetime bans on any rider caught using any of these substances. Maybe only then, riders will take these rules seriously and will stop.
It brings to light just how many professionals have not only given these substances to their horses, but how brazen they have been about it. Surely to stop this happening, the FEI must take a stand and impose lifetime bans on any rider caught using any of these substances. Maybe only then, riders will take these rules seriously and will stop.
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
What WERE they thinking???
I'm curious about the use of that medication for that condition but don't know enough about it to judge. BUT there is no doubt why it is a banned drug for FEI and that reason alone should have been enough to rule it out as an option for an actively competing horse. Whether or not they DID do it to have an impact, there is no question it DOES have an impact. And, unlike many other substances on the list, the whole point is it has a continuing effect - hence "30 day tranq."
Besides if they thought there was the possibility of getting a medication certificate (whatever the technical term is these days) stating that it was given for reasons that weren't and would not affect performance, why didn't they get one?
How odd this whole thing is. You would think right now people would be more than usually careful about this sort of thing.
I'm curious about the use of that medication for that condition but don't know enough about it to judge. BUT there is no doubt why it is a banned drug for FEI and that reason alone should have been enough to rule it out as an option for an actively competing horse. Whether or not they DID do it to have an impact, there is no question it DOES have an impact. And, unlike many other substances on the list, the whole point is it has a continuing effect - hence "30 day tranq."
Besides if they thought there was the possibility of getting a medication certificate (whatever the technical term is these days) stating that it was given for reasons that weren't and would not affect performance, why didn't they get one?
How odd this whole thing is. You would think right now people would be more than usually careful about this sort of thing.
LizFoot
Active Member
I agree with 127 - while I'd never knock any rider, professional or other, for administering a drug for the benefit of their horse, the fact is that if that drug is banned for competition use then the horse should not be competed until the drug has left its system.
My horse works in a sausage boot to reduce her habit of kicking into herself and stumbling. I can't use it in competition because boots aren't allowed. I accept that as part of the deal - why should drugs be different because they are invisible. If it comes down to a welfare issue and the horse isn't comfortable without the drugs then it has to find a new job where the drugs are not a barrier.
The rules are there to benefit animal welfare and bending/breaking them risks compromising that.
Very very sad about this - I hate to see evidence that heroes have clay feet!
My horse works in a sausage boot to reduce her habit of kicking into herself and stumbling. I can't use it in competition because boots aren't allowed. I accept that as part of the deal - why should drugs be different because they are invisible. If it comes down to a welfare issue and the horse isn't comfortable without the drugs then it has to find a new job where the drugs are not a barrier.
The rules are there to benefit animal welfare and bending/breaking them risks compromising that.
Very very sad about this - I hate to see evidence that heroes have clay feet!
Meg2
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
What WERE they thinking???
I'm curious about the use of that medication for that condition but don't know enough about it to judge. BUT there is no doubt why it is a banned drug for FEI and that reason alone should have been enough to rule it out as an option for an actively competing horse. Whether or not they DID do it to have an impact, there is no question it DOES have an impact. And, unlike many other substances on the list, the whole point is it has a continuing effect - hence "30 day tranq."
Besides if they thought there was the possibility of getting a medication certificate (whatever the technical term is these days) stating that it was given for reasons that weren't and would not affect performance, why didn't they get one?
How odd this whole thing is. You would think right now people would be more than usually careful about this sort of thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, it just doesn't make any sense.
If the reason for using the drug was ligitimate why not go through the proper channels? why risk ruining your reputation?
The sport needs a major clean up!
What WERE they thinking???
I'm curious about the use of that medication for that condition but don't know enough about it to judge. BUT there is no doubt why it is a banned drug for FEI and that reason alone should have been enough to rule it out as an option for an actively competing horse. Whether or not they DID do it to have an impact, there is no question it DOES have an impact. And, unlike many other substances on the list, the whole point is it has a continuing effect - hence "30 day tranq."
Besides if they thought there was the possibility of getting a medication certificate (whatever the technical term is these days) stating that it was given for reasons that weren't and would not affect performance, why didn't they get one?
How odd this whole thing is. You would think right now people would be more than usually careful about this sort of thing.
[/ QUOTE ]
Exactly, it just doesn't make any sense.
If the reason for using the drug was ligitimate why not go through the proper channels? why risk ruining your reputation?
The sport needs a major clean up!
GermanyJo
Well-Known Member
look at the cyclists... how long did it take them to start to clean up their act after the big publicity.. there were still people taking banned substances thinking they were going to get away with it long after the problem was made public... seems to have to take the same amount of time in horse sport
lillie07
Well-Known Member
Taken from a post on the BD Forum, somebody has very kindly translated her Press Release...
" Press Release Isabell Werth -- June 24, 2009
Yesterday I was informed by the FN that during a medication test on May 30, 2009 at the CDI in Wiesbaden, traces of the substance FLUPHENAZINE were found in a sample taken from my small tour horse Whisper. Therefore I feel the need to inform the public personally in addition to today's FN press release about the background of this matter.
Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod. Feeling insecure, the horse begins to shiver and lunges uncontrollably for fear of losing its balance and keeling over. This illness is not painful and does not influence a horse's ability to compete, but it entails an increased risk for the persons working with the horse (farrier, groom, rider).
Therefore I asked my veterinarian Dr. Hans Stihl (SUI), if and how this Shivering Syndrome can be treated. Dr. Stihl explained to me that so far there is no cure for this ailment, but that several horses in his care had showed positive reactions to a drug called MODECATE. This drug contains FLUPHENAZINE as an active substance. So we treated Whisper once, on May 16, 2009, with this drug, in order to find out if he responds to it. This was the case, the shivering was reduced, and there was less uncontrolled movement when we raised one of his legs.
When asked for the settling time, Dr. Stihl told me that according to his experience, six days are enough, but one could never be completely sure. So, to be on the safe side, we decided to let Whisper compete again on May 30, 2009 in Wiesbaden. I took this decision to the best of my knowledge. In spite of this, the FEI doping lab has now found traces of said substance. One reason may be that the lab has used new analyzing methods.
The FEI has suspended me immediately, as dictated by the rules of procedure. The fact that only ineffective traces of the drug were found does not matter according to those rules. I deeply regret this incident, but I was convinced that I had acted correctly. I wish the rules were revised as quickly as possible in a way that allows reasonable treatment of sport horses without risking long suspensions because the settling times change constantly with each new method of analysis and become literally incalculable.
I am aware that I have given reason to doubt the honesty and cleanness of my person and of our sport. I herewith apologize to everyone who is close to me and to equestrian sports. Of course I will do everything to help clarifying any questions that still remain.
Source: isabelle werth.
" Press Release Isabell Werth -- June 24, 2009
Yesterday I was informed by the FN that during a medication test on May 30, 2009 at the CDI in Wiesbaden, traces of the substance FLUPHENAZINE were found in a sample taken from my small tour horse Whisper. Therefore I feel the need to inform the public personally in addition to today's FN press release about the background of this matter.
Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod. Feeling insecure, the horse begins to shiver and lunges uncontrollably for fear of losing its balance and keeling over. This illness is not painful and does not influence a horse's ability to compete, but it entails an increased risk for the persons working with the horse (farrier, groom, rider).
Therefore I asked my veterinarian Dr. Hans Stihl (SUI), if and how this Shivering Syndrome can be treated. Dr. Stihl explained to me that so far there is no cure for this ailment, but that several horses in his care had showed positive reactions to a drug called MODECATE. This drug contains FLUPHENAZINE as an active substance. So we treated Whisper once, on May 16, 2009, with this drug, in order to find out if he responds to it. This was the case, the shivering was reduced, and there was less uncontrolled movement when we raised one of his legs.
When asked for the settling time, Dr. Stihl told me that according to his experience, six days are enough, but one could never be completely sure. So, to be on the safe side, we decided to let Whisper compete again on May 30, 2009 in Wiesbaden. I took this decision to the best of my knowledge. In spite of this, the FEI doping lab has now found traces of said substance. One reason may be that the lab has used new analyzing methods.
The FEI has suspended me immediately, as dictated by the rules of procedure. The fact that only ineffective traces of the drug were found does not matter according to those rules. I deeply regret this incident, but I was convinced that I had acted correctly. I wish the rules were revised as quickly as possible in a way that allows reasonable treatment of sport horses without risking long suspensions because the settling times change constantly with each new method of analysis and become literally incalculable.
I am aware that I have given reason to doubt the honesty and cleanness of my person and of our sport. I herewith apologize to everyone who is close to me and to equestrian sports. Of course I will do everything to help clarifying any questions that still remain.
Source: isabelle werth.
ihatework
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod.
Source: isabelle werth.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a silly lady, and I'm afraid not the most convincing story either.
I routinely ask my horse to stand on 3 legs when I groom or bandage it, doesn't everyone
Oh, and next time there is a rule I don't agree with, I would like it changed so that I can administer a long acting sedative to my horse
Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod.
Source: isabelle werth.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a silly lady, and I'm afraid not the most convincing story either.
I routinely ask my horse to stand on 3 legs when I groom or bandage it, doesn't everyone
Oh, and next time there is a rule I don't agree with, I would like it changed so that I can administer a long acting sedative to my horse
proudwilliam
Well-Known Member
Before I retired I was a senior nurse in Mental health/Learning Disabilities.
The drug groups in question has terrible and long lasting side effects in humans ,I wonder what long term effects they have on a horse.!!!!
The drug groups in question has terrible and long lasting side effects in humans ,I wonder what long term effects they have on a horse.!!!!
TarrSteps
Well-Known Member
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod.
Source: isabelle werth.
[/ QUOTE ]
What a silly lady, and I'm afraid not the most convincing story either.
I routinely ask my horse to stand on 3 legs when I groom or bandage it, doesn't everyone
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Well, that is the problem with shiverers, they do find that sort of thing difficult and can often react by kicking out inadvertently or losing their balance suddenly. As she says, they're fine working and mostly it's cosmetic but it does carry management risks.
Which doesn't excuse the positive test, obviously, and I agree it's an odd explanation. But if it DOES work for that situation then perhaps, in a few cases, it might be justified if it saves the horse discomfort and worry for shoeing etc. That said, it would NEVER be allowable in competing horses for the very obvious other effect.
As far as the clearance time . . . then why is it given as a long acting medication? Why would anyone give it expressly because it doesn't have to be given every day if it stops having any effect after a few days . . .
As far as side effect, what are the common ones in people? (Not getting into the argument about whether medication or schizophrenia is "worse" - that would be a very personal choice.) Given the relatively small dosage and - if used properly - as an anti-anxiety treatment for one time use of the medication for horses on stall rest etc., would that be the same as using it year after year?
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Whisper suffers from the so-called SHIVERING SYNDROME. This affects the central nervous system and causes imbalances if the horse has to stand on three legs for a longer while for example when being groomed, bandaged or shod.
Source: isabelle werth.
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What a silly lady, and I'm afraid not the most convincing story either.
I routinely ask my horse to stand on 3 legs when I groom or bandage it, doesn't everyone
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, that is the problem with shiverers, they do find that sort of thing difficult and can often react by kicking out inadvertently or losing their balance suddenly. As she says, they're fine working and mostly it's cosmetic but it does carry management risks.
Which doesn't excuse the positive test, obviously, and I agree it's an odd explanation. But if it DOES work for that situation then perhaps, in a few cases, it might be justified if it saves the horse discomfort and worry for shoeing etc. That said, it would NEVER be allowable in competing horses for the very obvious other effect.
As far as the clearance time . . . then why is it given as a long acting medication? Why would anyone give it expressly because it doesn't have to be given every day if it stops having any effect after a few days . . .
As far as side effect, what are the common ones in people? (Not getting into the argument about whether medication or schizophrenia is "worse" - that would be a very personal choice.) Given the relatively small dosage and - if used properly - as an anti-anxiety treatment for one time use of the medication for horses on stall rest etc., would that be the same as using it year after year?