Issue with youngster picking up hooves!

[Ali27]

So I have the loveliest Irish Draught x 2 year old filly that came to me two months ago. She was pretty much unhandled so now ties up, leads beautifully but I’m struggling with lifting hooves! More or less cracked lifting front ones but she kicks out with back ones! I’ve finally resorted to a pressure halter and make her move backwards when she kicks out! It’s working but takes several attempts before it works! Farrier is here next week so any tips would be gratefully received? Thank you x

 

[Palindrome]

I try to hold until they stop kicking, one that was particularly bad I had a rope around her pastern to help control the leg as she was really powerful, and then she got a treat after I let go (she didn't get anything if she took her hoof back).
I practiced with the rope around the pastern just lifting the leg first and then progressing longer and longer hoof up.

 

[Hackback]

Presumably she's been seen by a farrier before? I also recently got a 2 year old (who can be a stroppy little monkey at the best of times) and I am having the same issue. I got kicked 3 times in one session, luckily swift but relatively painless kicks.

Anyway when the barefoot trimmer came he only had a brief paddy then settled down and was perfect. I couldn't believe it!

 

[Horseysheepy]

The backs are always trickier than the front! My theory is that they can't quite fathom what we are doing when we are near their back end as they can't see us very well. Whereas at the front feet, they can see us and have the comfort of us being close by.

My plan is to try not to think about the Farrier coming in so and so amounts of days, it just puts pressure on yourself, and you risk rushing the youngster and possibly losing patience.

The following is what I have done many times with young horses, but I'm not suggesting it's right!

I set aside a few days a week and pop a headcollar on young horse in the field, throw the rope around their neck and assuming you have desensitized it from having your hand touch it's legs... I would firmly with purpose run hands down and say "up up". As soon as the youngster makes a tiny attempt to lift foot I say "good boy" and then as the leg comes up you hang on! The key is to say "good boy" as soon as there's a tiny moment of stillness, then I say"ok" and put foot down. I go back to the front and make much of the horse, pause, then run hand over back, down legs then repeat.

I find that if we seek perfection too soon, the horse isn't being rewarded for that tiny little try that it is offering to us. So I wait until it's good at the very basics of lifting foot, keeping it still, before I then start preparing it for the Farrier holds, for example resting it's back hoof on your knees, like a Farrier does so he can work with both hands on tools. Youngsters can find this a little worrying at first, but it's very useful to get them used to it. Once up to scratch with the Farrier hold, I get them to pull hind legs under them, like they would when being rasped on a hoof stand.

I bought a rising two year old so untrained, I had to get it sedated for it's trim. But gradually with a kind Farrier and weeks and weeks of training in the field progressed to being ok without sedation, with just a few wobbly moments!

 

[Horseysheepy]

A handful of treats fed after their Farrier training always goes down well!

 

[FestiveG]

I used clicker training with ours that struggled, post abscess, with a front foot. Spent hours picking the blessed foot up, then the farrier came for a morning and by the end of it she was handling having the foot dealt with like a pro

 

[SEL]

Is she kicking out as you run your hand down or just when you lift the hoof?

If it's running hand down then I spend time with a glove on a stick with a reward when I can touch without a reaction. If it's kicking when you lift it I have used a long lead rope to keep myself out of the danger zone - again with a reward when they lift

Current youngster can be fidgety and snatchy but he's not trying to kick at me. When the Appy was a baby she absolutely meant to get me so that's when I got creative with ropes and clicker training

 

[FestiveG]

The other thing with youngsters is that they can be scared of falling over when you pick up back feet. Many years ago, our then farrier (long passed away) stood a four year old so that she could, in extremis, lean against the wall. Just that the wall was there was enough for her to gain confidence and Co operate.

 

[Caol Ila]

Word of warning.... I rushed an unhandled two-year old into seeing a farrier, and now I have a four-year old who doesn't like farriers. So that's cool. I had reasons - her feet were a mess because her breeder did not have their feet trimmed or handled - but I wished I had done it with the help of Mr. Domesedan a few more times before we tried it sober.

 

[SEL]

Word of warning.... I rushed an unhandled two-year old into seeing a farrier, and now I have a four-year old who doesn't like farriers. So that's cool. I had reasons - her feet were a mess because her breeder did not have their feet trimmed or handled - but I wished I had done it with the help of Mr. Domesedan a few more times before we tried it sober.

Doped the Appy with IV sedation for a year! I've no idea what or how someone had tried to do with her hooves before she came to me, but she meant those kicks ?

 

[Lyle]

I don't rush, that's the key.
This is what I do.
Handle the legs so they are completely relaxed.
Slide hand down leg and give the cue to pick up (squeeze back of fetlock, pull feathers, what ever you want) as soon as they lift the leg, release the cue and let them put it down. After doing this many, many times, gradually increase holding it up time. While you're doing that, if the struggle, hold until the second they relax, then release. When at this stage, it can often be useful to use a rope to hold, so you are a little safer, especially if your youngster is big. Hanging onto the leg before having done these stages is just creating a battle. Safety first too, I wear a helmet and body protector.

 

[Red-1]

I don't rush, that's the key.
This is what I do.
Handle the legs so they are completely relaxed.
Slide hand down leg and give the cue to pick up (squeeze back of fetlock, pull feathers, what ever you want) as soon as they lift the leg, release the cue and let them put it down. After doing this many, many times, gradually increase holding it up time. While you're doing that, if the struggle, hold until the second they relax, then release. When at this stage, it can often be useful to use a rope to hold, so you are a little safer, especially if your youngster is big. Hanging onto the leg before having done these stages is just creating a battle. Safety first too, I wear a helmet and body protector.

If I think a horse is simply being awkward, I may do the hanging on until they are still, but with a baby or one that is maybe arthritic, I do more the above.

I would only add that I also keep the foot very low to the ground initially, so they don't feel off balance if young or aren't put in pain if arthritic. Once they are confident, you will be able to make a better judgement if they are in pain (unlikely in your case TBH, it is more likely confidence) and use a lower stand.

 

[maya2008]

They all kick out at first. We have someone at the head, someone working on the feet. Handful of pony nuts at the ready. The second the hind leg is lifted, treat. Then begin to pause before treating and keep feeding the nuts while the leg is up. If they start kicking or put it down, no more treats. Wait, then try again. Works to provide a positive association with having the foot up, and then the panic lessens.

 

[Hackback]

I tried treating but after only one treat - and it was only a couple of pony nuts, nothing special - every time I approached his (front) leg he started waving it around and porting quite violently, as if to say 'I'm doing it, I'm DOING it, give me the treat NOW!' So I was even worse off than I was before. He doesn't like being petted either but he's a sucker for a scratch, so that's all I've got. Just have to avoid the teeth and the hooves! (He's quite sweet really when he isn't having a toddler tantrum).

 

[Ali27]

Word of warning.... I rushed an unhandled two-year old into seeing a farrier, and now I have a four-year old who doesn't like farriers. So that's cool. I had reasons - her feet were a mess because her breeder did not have their feet trimmed or handled - but I wished I had done it with the help of Mr. Domesedan a few more times before we tried it sober.

That’s my issue! Her hooves are awful and desperately need doing! Especially her fronts! I’m thinking to maybe just get him to do fronts first as she is much better with them being picked up! I might try and pick up some sedation if necessary too ?

 

[Ali27]

I tried treating but after only one treat - and it was only a couple of pony nuts, nothing special - every time I approached his (front) leg he started waving it around and porting quite violently, as if to say 'I'm doing it, I'm DOING it, give me the treat NOW!' So I was even worse off than I was before. He doesn't like being petted either but he's a sucker for a scratch, so that's all I've got. Just have to avoid the teeth and the hooves! (He's quite sweet really when he isn't having a toddler tantrum).

I’m avoiding treats and doing scratches on her wither which she seems to like?

 

[paddy555]

That’s my issue! Her hooves are awful and desperately need doing! Especially her fronts! I’m thinking to maybe just get him to do fronts first as she is much better with them being picked up! I might try and pick up some sedation if necessary too ?

I would only do the fronts and then only if she is completely happy. However awful her feet are it is nothing to how unhappy she is going to be with a poor farrier experience which can last for a long time.


I never give treats for picking feet up and I expect youngsters to allow it and co operate with it standing loose not tied up or held. I never work with the view of teaching them to pick their feet up for a farrier but with the mindset of teaching them exercises with their legs. That of course has a dual purpose.
I work on the basis of the TTEAM (Tellington Jones) type exercises. Taking a hind I would get the horse calm to accept my hands to be run up and down the leg and then ask for the foot raising the foot only 6 inches and letting it rest on the toe. Then let the horse relax. Then repeat several times a day (the more sessions the better) and when it could do that pick it up and rest the toe 9 inches behind the horse, and 9 inches in front. When that is achieved lift it 9 inches high and repeat. Gradually increasing until I was lifting the leg and circling the foot in each direction. I would move onto stretching the foot/leg out in front and then out behind so the horse was happily used to the leg going higher and in all directions and it learnt balance. Then any other exercises I could think of all done calmly and with only a very few minutes a training session to start with.

Takes a bit of time but once they have learnt they have this training for life.

 

[Caol Ila]

That’s my issue! Her hooves are awful and desperately need doing! Especially her fronts! I’m thinking to maybe just get him to do fronts first as she is much better with them being picked up! I might try and pick up some sedation if necessary too ?

Yeah, I don't know the right answer. I felt between a rock and a hard place. I will never buy an unhandled horse again. Learned that lesson. My mare's son is so much better than she is because we were handling his feet when he was a tiny baby. Makes such a difference. Any breeder who thinks they are doing their youngstock some kind of favour by leaving them totally untouched is a moron.

My other horse was actually wild (I did not do the initial handling/gentling.... he had great ground manners before I was in the picture), but my mare was stroked and cuddled regularly by the humans. She wasn't out being semi-feral. Just no one bothered to teach her how to pick up her bloody feet until some idiot came along and bought her. In fairness, she is very civlized about it now, unless you're the farrier.

 

[sport horse]

Be guided by your farrier - whatever do not let him get hurt - it is his living. It is your job to present a horse that does pick up its feet.

If the hind feet are desparate you may have to resort to sedation to start with. After that, use a long rope and very carefully put it around the pastern. Beware you do not get kicked! When the rope is in place aske her to lift her foot and hold it up briefly with the rope (you are now out of reach of flailing legs that hurt!) then let the horse rest. Repeat a lot of times over as long a period as it takes for her to accept what you want, that she is going to do it and that it will not hurt. Try to use one word clearly - 'up?' that she will associate with the action required. Hopefully by the next farrier visit you will have cracked it.

I have bred horses for many years and some are more tricky than others but over time this method has always worked so long as you keep calm.

 

[Hackback]

Whilst I completely see the point of all the 'taking it slowly' suggestions, how do you deal with it if a horse actually kicks you while you're trying to handle its feet? Genuine question, I'm not trying to be clever.

 

[sport horse]

Whilst I completely see the point of all the 'taking it slowly' suggestions, how do you deal with it if a horse actually kicks you while you're trying to handle its feet? Genuine question, I'm not trying to be clever.

Use a rope around the pastern so that you are out of reach of its kick. It can be tricky getting the rope around but with care (and ingenuity sometimes0 it can b done. I have had some fearsome youngsters that have been fine but it is not a quick fix.

 

[Ali27]

Thank you everyone for all the helpful suggestions! Very much appreciated ?