Issues leading in from field - frustrating!!

redfoxhunter

redfoxhunter

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I ride on a private hunting yard with 5 horses, 2 of which I have serious issues with bringing in from the field.

I always have to take food to catch them, and then when I do its a fight to get them from the field to the stable. I will get half way down the yard (about a 150 meter stretch to stables) and 9 times out of 10 they will break away. This is when leading alone/with someone else with another horse/me with two horses/when there are horses already in stables/with horses still in the field. I do wrap the lead rein round the noseband, and if I catch them early enough with this then I can stop them.

It's not just me - they are both the same with everyone and as far as I can tell the owners have always had trouble with both of them. One is a gelding, and one a mare. Anyone got any tips on how to stop it?
 
I wouldn't offer treats until you've reached the yard/stable as this reinforces the bad behaviour, try a chiffney bit, an ex racer at my yard used to get so far walking up from the field and then bolt back to his paddock even with the rope round his nose like you say, since then they have used a chiffney and he walks up like a dog on a lead, totally respects the chiffney! P.s always wear your gloves, rope burn is nasty!
 
MelHugo said:
I wouldn't offer treats until you've reached the yard/stable as this reinforces the bad behaviour, try a chiffney bit, an ex racer at my yard used to get so far walking up from the field and then bolt back to his paddock even with the rope round his nose like you say, since then they have used a chiffney and he walks up like a dog on a lead, totally respects the chiffney! P.s always wear your gloves, rope burn is nasty!
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Thank you! We have tried with the chifney but can't get near them in the field with it.

Currently nursing rope burn from trying to get them in for the blacksmith this morning!!
 
I always bang on about it, but could you suggest that your employer buy a couple of Richard Maxwell rope halters, they really do give you the ultimate control.

But I agree a chiffney could do the trick, nothing worse than being on the ground with bolshy horses.
 
Get yourself a thin rope halter, and a longer than normal lead rein (I use a lunge line). I have one that objects to coming in during the summer if all his buds are still out, his party piece is to rear and leap away from me. Unfortunately once it happens once, they realise it works. But with the rope halter / pressure halter, it is not comfortable for them to really pull against you, plus if you use a longer line and they rear, you have a better chance of keeping hold of them. Make sure you wear gloves and a hat, and mean business! I dont lead him with another as it takes both hands to keep a hold of him when he does act up - is a 17h m/w.

We've only had one episode so far this year, and he didn't get away as I'd already dug the halter out. Hoping that will be it now. It is rude and I dont like it, but he tried it on as a 3yo and caught me off guard and got away. Now at the age of 13 he still tries it occasionally, but he is pretty predictable so i'm usually ready!

I also make yard time as fun as possible, and he gets a handful of feed as soon as we are on the yard (not in field) and again after he has been ridden.
 
Echo a pressure halter - I had to use one on my 5 yr old as had issues leading out as would spin and tear the rope out of my hand in excitement of going to the field.

I used a Dually halter and within a week he had transformed - again I had him on a longer line and he respected the pressure aspect, and touch wood has been fine since and am now leading him in a normal head collar again.
 
I would catch them with a headcollar then lead them to the gate where your chifney is hanging, slip it on and off you go.
 
I use a dually too. You do need to do the ground work so they understand the pressure and release but its worth the effort.
 
1st - don't ever try to lead them both together!

I always use rope halters with 'difficult' (or indeed any other, these days) horses, as they are far more effective than headcollars for controlling a horse which is being awkward. The handler needs to stay alert and one step in front of the horse. I do use treats, I would give a treat upon catching the horse and then at strategic points along the way back to the yard, to keep the horse's attention on the handler and what the horse is supposed to be doing, rather than letting the attention wander. If necessary take a schooling whip and hold it in front of the horse's nose, or tap the chest if the horse gets too fast/in front to f the handler.
 
Clodagh said:
I would catch them with a headcollar then lead them to the gate where your chifney is hanging, slip it on and off you go.
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Totally agree with this. I bought my youngster off Clodagh, and he was a nightmare to lead. Not all the time, but when he got the urge, he would just go. Ended up on the road, and I had to do something. I tried a be nice halter, a rope halter, didn't try the dually, but to be honest, I don't think I would have had any success with it. He wouldn't let me catch him with the chiffney, so I put his headcollar on, and once I had him, would put the chiffney over the top. First few times he tried to ****** off, it pulled him up short and he really didn't like it, obviously, but now, he walks like a dope on a rope at the end of the lead. His manners overall have improved ten fold since we've mastered the chiffney.

I know the chiffney isn't everyone's cup of tea, but when you have one that will piss off because he knows he can, and gives no warning, they are a danger to themselves and everyone else.
 
Attach the headcollar to the side click by mouth angle so when he pulls away you can turn his head in to you and keep circling if you need to, dont forget to make it reverse if it doesnt have the manners to go forwards. Be firm but not aggressive.

The chain doesnt go through the mouth like a bit, it goes above the top teeth under the lip and to keep it there it needs to be threaded through the head collar corerectly.
 
redfoxhunter said:
I ride on a private hunting yard with 5 horses, 2 of which I have serious issues with bringing in from the field.

I always have to take food to catch them, and then when I do its a fight to get them from the field to the stable. I will get half way down the yard (about a 150 meter stretch to stables) and 9 times out of 10 they will break away. This is when leading alone/with someone else with another horse/me with two horses/when there are horses already in stables/with horses still in the field. I do wrap the lead rein round the noseband, and if I catch them early enough with this then I can stop them.

It's not just me - they are both the same with everyone and as far as I can tell the owners have always had trouble with both of them. One is a gelding, and one a mare. Anyone got any tips on how to stop it?
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We have one here who does this and the owner uses a catching bridle. There used to be a gadget on stopthathorse. come but the website is not active no more
 
Not read previous comments but have you tried walking them backwards in ?
redfoxhunter said:
I ride on a private hunting yard with 5 horses, 2 of which I have serious issues with bringing in from the field.

I always have to take food to catch them, and then when I do its a fight to get them from the field to the stable. I will get half way down the yard (about a 150 meter stretch to stables) and 9 times out of 10 they will break away. This is when leading alone/with someone else with another horse/me with two horses/when there are horses already in stables/with horses still in the field. I do wrap the lead rein round the noseband, and if I catch them early enough with this then I can stop them.

It's not just me - they are both the same with everyone and as far as I can tell the owners have always had trouble with both of them. One is a gelding, and one a mare. Anyone got any tips on how to stop it?
Click to expand...
 
TheresaW said:
Totally agree with this. I bought my youngster off Clodagh, and he was a nightmare to lead. Not all the time, but when he got the urge, he would just go. Ended up on the road, and I had to do something. I tried a be nice halter, a rope halter, didn't try the dually, but to be honest, I don't think I would have had any success with it. He wouldn't let me catch him with the chiffney, so I put his headcollar on, and once I had him, would put the chiffney over the top. First few times he tried to ****** off, it pulled him up short and he really didn't like it, obviously, but now, he walks like a dope on a rope at the end of the lead. His manners overall have improved ten fold since we've mastered the chiffney.

I know the chiffney isn't everyone's cup of tea, but when you have one that will piss off because he knows he can, and gives no warning, they are a danger to themselves and everyone else.
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Blush!!
x
 
My horse did the same with me once, when leaving his friends. Waiting until I had help, then led him in in a chiffney, a lunge line each. He tried to pull back and rear but as there was two of us he couldn't sod off and gave up trying. Did this a few more times and touch wood, if you now put anything in his mouth, including the lead rope he stays with you and gives up!

In regards to the rope halters I have always found the Be Nice to be the most effective, but it is horses for courses!

Good luck!
 
With the rain last night he was an absolute pain in the bum to catch, so knew he was going to be a prat to bring in. Tried to get the chifney on him just inside the gate but he bolted across the field so in the end my sister and I had a lead rope each wrapped around his nose both ways, and he came in like a little lamb!

Think I might try the chain lead rope idea, before getting the owners to spend any money on gadgets that might or might not work.

Possibly the most frustrating horse I've ever had to handle! He's such a lovely horse to ride, but bringing him in puts me off!
 
redfoxhunter said:
With the rain last night he was an absolute pain in the bum to catch, so knew he was going to be a prat to bring in. Tried to get the chifney on him just inside the gate but he bolted across the field so in the end my sister and I had a lead rope each wrapped around his nose both ways, and he came in like a little lamb!

Think I might try the chain lead rope idea, before getting the owners to spend any money on gadgets that might or might not work.

Possibly the most frustrating horse I've ever had to handle! He's such a lovely horse to ride, but bringing him in puts me off!
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That's because they have no 'eyebrow' as such to stop wind and rain making contact with their eyes.... When my horses are lead into driving rain, they're always given 'slack' to decide how they handle it, and any 'problems' are immediately overlooked and forgiven... it would be churlish in the extreme to reprimand a horse because it was having difficulties because of the weather.

Frankly what you've posted earlier, about the horses refusing to be caught when you carry a chiffney, tells me that others have tried and failed with this device to cure these horse's ills. As these horses don't belong to you, I'd be inclined to tell the owners that it's their responsibility to get them in for farriery and at night... there's no point in getting injured if someone else can't take responsibility for their own horses.

However, if you are in the position of being 'employed' to care for them, then it's up to you to train yourself to handle horses of this nature. Sadly this is something that message boards, books and DVDs can't teach.. the only way to learn about handling difficult horses is to handle difficult horses, then you will find that there are better and easier ways than using devices and lead ropes round noses. Sorry to be so blunt.
 
redfoxhunter said:
Think I might try the chain lead rope idea, before getting the owners to spend any money on gadgets that might or might not work.
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All gadgets work if they are used correctly and sensibly. It's up to us all as handlers of horses to learn how they work and should be used.



To my mind, however, using a Chiffney or ropes/chains over/under/the nose or in the mouth is only using restraint to control the horse. He is only controlled through a degree of force as he feels pain/discomfort if he 'misbehaves'. Such methods of control suggest only lack of imagination and enthusiasm for learning on the part of the handler, in my view.

redfoxhunter said:
Possibly the most frustrating horse I've ever had to handle! He's such a lovely horse to ride, but bringing him in puts me off!
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He's only difficult to bring in because he has never been taught how to come in nicely. He must have been trained to be a lovely horse to ride. Why don't you learn how to train him to be a lovely horse to catch and lead? I can tell you that good handling and kindness will encourage your horse to behave well. A horse is controlled through his mind, not by coercion or force.
 
I agree the owners of both horses need to take responsibility for their equines bad behaviour. Unless it is your job why risk being injured. If it is then putting a couple of carrots and apples in their feed bowls so they have something to look forward to when they come in. I would also definitely be doing 10-15 minutes groundwork training a day until their rudeness stops. Otherwise someone could end up being seriously hurt. How easy are they when they are taken to the field?
 
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You have to be aware that severe constraints like a chain could cause injury if things got out of hand.
I had to use a bridle on my boy for a while as he was very spooky at night, and I banned any inexperienced person from bringing him in as his default was to jump on top of me. There was no drama, he just had to learn to behave.
Seems to me you should be wearing a hat, strong boots gloves and a long lead rein, if they won't behave the owner will have to come and assist.
I did a lot of ground training with a thin pressure release halter, and once he realised its effects he was fine with it, it was very quick to fasten.
They are pretty cute when it comes to bad habits, but safety first, they must not get away from you, end of story. Do not worry about owners having to buy a control halter and long lead rope. That is their responsibility. You cannot afford to end up in hospital.
 
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I use a chain extension under my horses jaw. He is a pain to bring in, but I have found that works better then a bridle or a chifney. Oh, and use a lunge line too!
 
Urban Horse said:
it would be churlish in the extreme to reprimand a horse because it was having difficulties because of the weather.
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Thanks for your insight, but at no point did I mention reprimand. He came in, with two of us leading without food, and got a treat and fuss when he reached his stable.


AengusOg said:
He's only difficult to bring in because he has never been taught how to come in nicely. He must have been trained to be a lovely horse to ride. Why don't you learn how to train him to be a lovely horse to catch and lead? I can tell you that good handling and kindness will encourage your horse to behave well. A horse is controlled through his mind, not by coercion or force.
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I would love to, which is why I was asking for some advice. I'm well aware that a battle of wills or force gets us nowhere. The horse in question is 12, and the mare (that is away at the moment) is over 20, I have been working with the horses since last August so I'm 'fighting' years of bad behavior.

Myhorseeatsmoney said:
How easy are they when they are taken to the field?
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The mare is fine. The gelding is fine as long as you lead him out straight away, no waiting around. If he has to wait for more than 20 secs or so, he will bolt and wait outside his gate.

He's good in the stable generally, walks back as you walk in and doesn't try and barge his way out. If he is left in the stable without horses around for a length of time, he will jump out. He also jumps between fields. The bad behavior is generally in the summer, when he is turned away. I think it is lack of routine, he is much better in the winter when he is being brought in every evening for tea and warm. The aim this summer was to keep him ticking over whilst I worked with a youngster but he is still not in a routine. I think this is where I will start, bringing him in every evening for a bit of a treat.

Thank you everyone for you advice, and safety concerns!
 
I think you need help rather than advice, actually. If you have been working with these horses for six months and really not making progress, you need someone to demonstrate techniques which you can learn.

Horses' behaviours can be dramatically changed for the better in a matter of minutes with correct use of pressure and release. The horse is hard-wired to oppose pressure; he leans into pressure and must be taught to yield. The amount and duration of pressure must be measured by the handler so as to not cause resistance in the horse. If the pressure is used without incurring resistance, the horse is encouraged to offer some response. The handler then works with horse to help him discover which is the correct response. Repetition and consistency then fix that behaviour as the norm, so the horse learns a new way to behave.

It is always easier to teach new behaviour than it is to correct old behaviour.

It's a shame our locations are so distant, as I would love to help you.
 
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