Issues with Farriers and being tied up...

The mad TB

The mad TB

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Hey everyone,

I have just bought a 4yo Thoroughbred and he is a complete angel to do in every way, until yesterday. Our brilliant farrier came out to shoe him and he just freaked, rearing kicking, bolting, breaking leadropes, hadcollars, twine, the whole works and in the end, we had to have the vet out to sedate him! Now he wont tie up, at all! He's fine if you stand and hold him by his head but if his rope is attached to anything, he just goes mad!

Any ideas? He's such a loving horse and has so much potential, I really don't want to have to deal with this problem as it means I cant do ANYTHING with him!

The mad Tb x
 
What a horrible thing to happen!
In my humble opinion I would start again as if I was teaching him to tie in the first place. Just build him up again,little steps. He is just a baby. However if you are still having issues there is nothing wrong in looking for an expert to help out. I wish you luck. I hate not having the ability to tie up, my friend has a mare who just will not stand there at all and has to be held. To tell you the turth I'd of sold her!!!
 
My youngster had problems with tying up when I first got her so I used to tie her rope through 3 loops of bailing twine, one small, the other slightly bigger and the last one bigger still. It meant that she'd pull back and get a release when the smallest loop broke but not be free. She only ever broke two of them and was happy to stand tied afterwards. However in all honesty her reaction was nothing like you describe so I'm not sure that this approach would be right for your horse as he might panic more.

Is he happy in his stable? Could you try just looping the rope through a tie ring in the box and work up to being tied properly very slowly?
 
I have a t/b mare who's 18 and sometimes when she gets herself all wound up in a tizzy she does the same, pulling and leaning backwards and rearing until something snaps and she comes loose. She did it nearly everyday when i bought her and it didn't take me long to stop her. I found that just standing her near where i tied up and giving her some carrots a few times a day and then expanding the time i stayed there eventually tying her up and just standing with her until she felt okay to be left alone long enough for me to do my jobs :). It is frustrating as its hard to get things done when they get like this but at least he's young so he should be a quick learner. but i know how you feel!
 
To be honest Suki, whilst I agree with you in principle, some hoses simply won't tie up - for whatever reason. And doing so, as in the case of the op becomes dangerous. So the obvious answer is to simply hold it.

You'll be aware, of course, that a tied horse should never be left unattended, so your example of tieing up at a show is moot.
 
There is a very well known way of teaching horses to tie up safely and positively....but if I write it on here I may get slated by some ;)

Have you tried tying him next to a friend, with a haynet? Then gradually moving the friend to the next ring when he's happy and leaving him for slightly longer?
Always supervised of course. The three baler twine loops is a good idea too.

They all need to learn to tie up at some point IMO and unless there's a serious reason why you can't it's usually just a training issue and requires patience, which if you have a 4yo tb you must have heaps of ;)

Good luck with it! :)
 
Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions!

Amymay, I kinda have to tie him up, how an I supposed to do rugs/tack him up/pick out feet ect without him being secure?

Weltonfino, that's reassuring thanks! He only needs to stand for 5 minutes but I suppose it will all come with time?

Patterdale, could you PM it to me? That's a good one, I'll try it tomorrow :) Oh yeah I have loads of patience, for about 3 minutes! When the farrier was holding his foot, doing nothing! He just went loco! And yeah, we don't know how but it wasn't with good quality shoes and they didn't fit him so it could have been really quickly done, cold shoeing that hurt him and affected him?
 
I tend not to tie my tb up... He ground ties pretty well and at a competition he goes back in the trailer anyway if we're not there. I do tie him for a few minutes if I'm popping to the tack room and there are lots of people about who think I'm odd anyway ;) He has spatial awareness issues so he tends to bash his head on things, hence Id rather he was standing in the middle of the yard than tied up to a wall etc
 
Op, I've never had a horse that needs to be tied up for any of the reasons you state.

Hope you find a solution that works for you.
 
Sounds as though he has had a bad farriery experience in the past. Regardless of trying/not tying he will prob be scared of farrier for a while so you may want to do the pick up foot, pick up & hold up, pick up & hold up & make gentle 'bangs' on it,... progression over a number of days always making sure you don't push him too far.
 
I don't need to tie my boy up, but sometimes it is more safe to do so, eg in his box. It is nice to tie up at a show just to have a break even if you are just having a snack next to them.

No help I am afraid other than go right back to basics, good luck
 
patterdale said:
There is a very well known way of teaching horses to tie up safely and positively....but if I write it on here I may get slated by some ;)

Have you tried tying him next to a friend, with a haynet? Then gradually moving the friend to the next ring when he's happy and leaving him for slightly longer?
Always supervised of course. The three baler twine loops is a good idea too.

They all need to learn to tie up at some point IMO and unless there's a serious reason why you can't it's usually just a training issue and requires patience, which if you have a 4yo tb you must have heaps of ;)

Good luck with it! :)
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Do tell!!!! i won't slate you, you always offer me sound advice!!
 
If he ties up ok when rugging up ect, think about getting either a calmer and start feeding a week before hand or some sedalin from the vets for that day when he's going to be shod. Also ring previous owner and get the low down on the horse. But don't worry as more he's handled gently the better he will get with the farrier and I know I and my farrier have been there and done that with my old mare, she nows is happy to tie up and have her feet trimmed by his apprentice and I no longer have to muzzle her,try and drug her.
 
One of the TB studs I worked at woould teach the yearlings being prepared for the sales to tie up by first placing the rope through the ring and the handler holding it whilee continuing to groom the horse. This gave some resistance but was easy to release if the horse panicked.

When they start to pull back the pressure was held by the handler for a few seconds and then eased. Horse was talked to and reassured. If things got really bad then the rope was released and the handler made a hasty exit!

Next stage was to wrap the rope around itself - this gives a reasonable resistance and allows the handler to work without having to hold the rope.

It sounds as if your boy has either been naughty to tie up in the past or has had a bad time with a previous farrier.

Another method to use is this - ring needs to be fixed firmly and footing safe when you know you have a fighter, rope is tied at the wither using a bowline and at the ring with a quick release knot. Rope is from a boating shop.
MatamataWaikatoWorld008.jpg


And something of interest - pic from a standardbred stud where I worked when I first came to NZ - a real eye opener! The Wall v The Weanling
Gettingtheweanlingtiedup.jpg

Yes the two men almost horizontal are holding the rope attached the weanling and the other man is tying the rope around the weanlings neck - with a bowline. Rope is then tied very short and the long line removed. Weanling is then left to fight! Behind the men there is a tractor and yes that was used to drag the yearling from the barn to the wall.
 
Is your farrier a man? And how is your horse with men? I have a horse who is very wary of men. I do tie my horses up for the farrier, but for grooming, tacking up etc just have them in the stable.
 
Was he in training? Lots of racing stables never tie their horses up outside the stable. Will he tie up inside? As others have said otherwise take him back to basics and just keep going :)
 
Had you tied him up ok before the farrier episode? if so then you know he can do it and it's the experience with the farrier that's upset things. I would go back to just holding a lunge line looped through the ring so that you can let him pull back and then reel him back in, over and over until he realises he's not getting away:) Are you on a yard with other horses that get shod at different times to yours? if so see if you can get your boy to just stand on the yard while the farrier works so that he can get used to the noises and the smells, desensitize him as much as you can.
One of mine is a bit of an idiot sometimes at being tied up, he can go for months and months with no problems, then for no apparent reason he will flip out and act like he's never been tied up before:rolleyes: the last time he did it coincided with the first visit from a new farrier, how embarressing:o
 
That looks a very extreme way to teach tying up, surely doing it with snacks and or feed whilst being tied up makes for a better all round outcome,,,, maybe I am a bunny hugger ?.
 
These are all fab suggestions guys, thanks so much!

He has been tied up before the farrier incident no issue, apart from when the saddle fitter came, can horses have problems with strangers? I dont think it's men, he's fine with my Dad?

He was already better this evening, standing with fussles and his feed (he doesnt know what carrots are either...) and he was quite chilled so maybe we'll get there!

I don't tend to tie them up at shows, I let them graze in hand because I'm soft :L

He was never in training although he has really good breeding (by Whitmore's Conn) but he did live at a racing stud so could that be it?
 
Echo Bravo said:
Bloody hell Tnavas, what do these people hope to gain,by treating their young stock like this,or do they have a high wastish on the youngstock.
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Interestingly they had only lost two in over 20 years - the upside of this method is that the standardbreds don't move at all when tied up - really great, but some do have neck issues afterwards but that is no different than the horse that repeatedly pulls back and puts its poll out.

I saw some really terrible things at this place. A newly broken filly lay down in the cart so the boss poured some water in its ear - it got up fast. Another time when introduced to the jogging machine one younster refused to lead, it got pulled over and the driver continued to keep moving, horse got back up and co-operated after that. Jogging machine - a contraption that holds around six horses and is towed by a tractor. Horses are in pairs on either side of the centre bar, the cross bar is in fornt of each and they are tied to this, they are then exercised around the track in trot for 1hour. Very boring for the driver but a great way to get mileage in fitness work. I prefered to drive one of the horses, the jogging cart had D's for clipping horses to - so I had one in harness, one each side of the shafts and then often led one or two behind the jogger. All fine unless someone decided to be stroppy or not lead well.

It was an interesting experience!
 
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