eahotson
Well-Known Member
I
100% Agree with that.
It’s no longer true that hard work…
- Thread starter LEC
- Start date
millikins
Well-Known Member
But suppose there were 2 equally talented 8 year olds at PC level, but one is from a wealthy background and the other "ordinary", I don't even mean poor, parents are teachers/nurses. Unless the one from the ordinary background is incredibly lucky, being in the right place at the right time to attract a sponsor, they won't be able to afford the animals or training to make it to the top. I think that has probably always been the case to some extent but I do think it's got worse.
Muddy unicorn
Well-Known Member
i think ‘influencers’ and riders at the top of the sport are completely separate. This Esme is probably the equestrian influencer with the biggest following and therefore making the most money but she is not a particularly good rider and barely competes. However she obviously loves her animals and does a lot of work on her channel. The vast majority of her followers are pre-teen girls who don’t have their own pony - if they’re really lucky they’ll have a riding lesson once a week. But they look at Esme and see someone that is relatable - forgetting that she’s extremely privileged for her family to have horses at home etc
Then you have the billionaire’s daughters (and it is mostly daughters not sons) who never have to work, can afford the best horses, the best training, and never have to worry about how they’re going to make ends meet. I’m sure the likes of Eve Jobs, Jessica Springsteen and now Annabella Pidgeley work very hard but there’s no denying they’ve been given a huge step up which other young people, who may be just as or more talented and hard-working just don’t have. I don’t know what the answer is …
Then you have the billionaire’s daughters (and it is mostly daughters not sons) who never have to work, can afford the best horses, the best training, and never have to worry about how they’re going to make ends meet. I’m sure the likes of Eve Jobs, Jessica Springsteen and now Annabella Pidgeley work very hard but there’s no denying they’ve been given a huge step up which other young people, who may be just as or more talented and hard-working just don’t have. I don’t know what the answer is …
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
I think work counts for more than money. I know several trainers who are trying to get as high up as possible and teach or school to fund their horses. 2 local trainers started out as working pupils of Andy Heffernan’s with the opportunity to ride his youngsters and he trained by him. Another was a working pupil of Georgie Spence. That deal must be replicated all over the place. Many others do not have their own horses but ride other peoples. Several do schooling/sales/competition livery - renting space on a yard. A friend got as far as 4* eventing with very little money behind her. Now works in children’s care homes as a resi worker! Not exactly a profession that pays much. My friend’s daughter has been schooling other people’s horses since she was 12. And buying unbacked, producing and selling since she was 14. Plus her mum bought her cheap quirky, talented ponies and she succeeding competitively with them. Many BS and BE placings or wins with cheap/free ponies. She won’t be at ‘the top’: she’s good and works bloody hard but isn’t talented in a world beating kind of way. But I don’t think she’d be any better with money. If anything she’d be less driven, less resilient and with less ability as riding those ponies probably helped a lot.
The common ingredients for everyone I know is supportive families and hard graft. I wish I’d had support for my passion as a child far more than I wish I had flash ponies. Not getting a horse till I was an adult has meant learning the basics is very hard I think. Nothing feels natural.
The common ingredients for everyone I know is supportive families and hard graft. I wish I’d had support for my passion as a child far more than I wish I had flash ponies. Not getting a horse till I was an adult has meant learning the basics is very hard I think. Nothing feels natural.
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Showjumping is ruled by children born into privileged/ "names" families
Look at the GB team there's almost always a Whittaker on it now we have Harry Charles and Joseph Stockdale on the teams. Probably because of their parents, they get easier access to nice horses/sponsors etc.
Look at the GB team there's almost always a Whittaker on it now we have Harry Charles and Joseph Stockdale on the teams. Probably because of their parents, they get easier access to nice horses/sponsors etc.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
I was giving an example pertaining to my aspirations , I know even with a ton of money I wouldn’t be good enough to compete with the top riders but was successful in a small way competing against my peers. I mainly have enjoyed my horses hacking and just loved spending time with them, but did compete at riding club level and was very happy if we went well even if not placed..I could spend ages just watching my horse grazing in the field and feel very lucky that I had horses in my life for over 50 years, sadly not now
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Combine money with support and an intensely competitive ethos within the family and that deffo a winning combination! But there are also people at the top who are not from riding dynasties. Hester wasn’t. His success may be more to do with the fact that there are no cars onSark so everyone rides to get around - mostly bareback. He went the working pupil route I think .
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
me too ambers echo, I got my first horse when I was 21, saved for ages worked at stables in my free time so I could be near horses and get the occasional free ride…. When you look at Charlotte do, she has been riding for as long as she can remember and had a very supportive family which gave her such a good start
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Also Anabella Pidgeley for example- I expect her parents could afford far more lessons than anyone with a working class parent could, so she'd have had more repetition to hone her skills
Also so very few parents could afford to buy their junior child a horse that's been to the Olympics- I dread to think how many zeroes would have been on the end of Pumpkins price tag. Same for Jessica Springsteen
You then have the likes of Harry Charles and the Whitaker children- given a leg up almost because of their name, due to their dad's they'd have had access to all the top class ponies and then horses.
Also so very few parents could afford to buy their junior child a horse that's been to the Olympics- I dread to think how many zeroes would have been on the end of Pumpkins price tag. Same for Jessica Springsteen
You then have the likes of Harry Charles and the Whitaker children- given a leg up almost because of their name, due to their dad's they'd have had access to all the top class ponies and then horses.
Rowreach
👀
But these families have been involved in SJ for generations, they were generally farming/horse dealing families who grafted really hard for their successes, travelled the circuit in the summer and worked hard all winter to earn the money to follow the sport. Sponsorship and riding for owners came later.
Nobody can deny the graft put in by Peter Charles when he was starting out, and I certainly don’t begrudge the success of Harry, Scarlett and Sienna, whose talents are awesome.
It may look like there’s pots of money behind these riders but the reality is they work bloody hard and never know when the rug might be pulled.
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
He was funded by the Bechtolscheimers (sp) so did have a reasonable advantage.
The biggest one from nowhere I would say is Jock Padget who was a bricklayer, decided to learn to ride and then was winning 5* couple years later ?
Crazy_cat_lady
Well-Known Member
Another example is Lance Stroll in F1 - he's one of the less talented drivers (obviously more talented than most) but would he have that seat if daddy didn't own the team? I don't think he would
Marigold4
Well-Known Member
I went to the Equitogs shop this week - teacher/ summer holidays/spare time. There were no breeches for less than £175. Everything very sparkly and expensive. Lots of parents shopping with their teenage daughters and not batting an eyelid. I used to save up my pocket money for a riding lesson once every two months. It blows my mind!
silv
Well-Known Member
Karl Hester was only funded by the Bechtolscheimers due to his outstanding talent as a rider, he was spotted and given a great opportunity. Had he not been a great rider this would not have happened.
I have no idea what an influencer is by the way! I don't tend to get influenced by others, perhaps due to my age and life experiences. Neither could I care if people have rich parents or not.
Life is not fair, you only need to see people living in the 3rd world ridden with disease and starvation, people being killed in accidents, developing horrid diseases etc to realise that.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
I thought he was good so they decided to support him? I’ve got his autobiography somewhere but maybe he glossed over the huge leg up bit?!
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
X posted with silv x
shortstuff99
Well-Known Member
Yes I get his talent but it shows that you still need HUGE financial backing to get there, which he was very luck to get.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
Yes but you can attract rich backers with talent and hard work. The thread is about just being born rich and having everything handed to you on a plate. That is an advantage (if you back it up with hard work) but you can get there other ways too.
teapot
Well-Known Member
Great article here about Joe Stockdale:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/equestr...ive-knew-dad-dying-had-choose-cricket-horses/
Cortez
Tough but Fair
About a million years ago, when I was first starting out, I did the antiquarian equivalent of a spreadsheet to discover what the top dressage riders had in common so I could emulate them. The common denominator was MONEY, followed by family connections; talent came quite far down the list.
Ambers Echo
Still wittering on
How do you know how much money they had? How did you evaluate their talent? Genuinely curious as with some people it’s obvious: Jessica Springsteen, Gemma Owen etc. But not everyone’s net worth is public knowledge.
I know 2 seriously rich horsey kids. One has a private stables with full sized arena, grooms, top trainers and string of smart horses. She got as far as sunshine tour. Another was bought a 6 figure experienced pony trials pony but did not make the team and is now off ponies. Money did not buy them placings or places on teams. Of course it helps massively but there is no point begrudging people their advantages. And there are enough exceptions to show that the belief that you have to have serious money to make it is just not true.
I know 2 seriously rich horsey kids. One has a private stables with full sized arena, grooms, top trainers and string of smart horses. She got as far as sunshine tour. Another was bought a 6 figure experienced pony trials pony but did not make the team and is now off ponies. Money did not buy them placings or places on teams. Of course it helps massively but there is no point begrudging people their advantages. And there are enough exceptions to show that the belief that you have to have serious money to make it is just not true.
teapot
Well-Known Member
I think these days it’s much easier to work out someone’s wealth, or where their money may be tied up.
Also worth remembering in GB team set ups at least, a pushy parent could/can cost a kid a team place, regardless of money or talent.
Also worth remembering in GB team set ups at least, a pushy parent could/can cost a kid a team place, regardless of money or talent.
WispyBegs
Well-Known Member
In my personal opinion I don’t believe there is necessarily a correlation between equestrian influencers and people at the top of the sport.
I for one, am an equestrian influencer and content creator on Instagram. While I wish I could say I had bags of money, the best of horses, tack and a beautiful yard it’s just not true.
The only reason brands gift me things and pay me to promote is because people seem to find people like me documenting the ups and downs of equestrian life quite relatable.
I’m not the best of riders myself and my horse although he is lovely and tries his heart out is never going to be a worldbeater!
Although I do agree, it must help to have a flashy horse and be amazing - we aren’t all like that!
I for one, am an equestrian influencer and content creator on Instagram. While I wish I could say I had bags of money, the best of horses, tack and a beautiful yard it’s just not true.
The only reason brands gift me things and pay me to promote is because people seem to find people like me documenting the ups and downs of equestrian life quite relatable.
I’m not the best of riders myself and my horse although he is lovely and tries his heart out is never going to be a worldbeater!
Although I do agree, it must help to have a flashy horse and be amazing - we aren’t all like that!
blitznbobs
Well-Known Member
The basic equation is
(talent + opportunity (money) + timing - injury) x work = amount of success
work is still fundamentally important but its not the whole story.
(talent + opportunity (money) + timing - injury) x work = amount of success
work is still fundamentally important but its not the whole story.
splashgirl45
Lurcher lover
i thought that carl hester left sark and went to work for the Bechelsteiners and then he started competing their horses and that is similar to lottie fry who carl introduced to the van olsts and look where she is now. she won the world dressage freestyle tonight, amazing test and well deserved..
LEC
Opinions are like bum holes, everyone has one.
Jock went to Kevin Mcnab as a working pupil though and his family had horses. He might have not ridden much at 18 and only trail riding but I can guarantee he had sat on a horse before 18
SO1
Well-Known Member
Lottie Fry was training with CH from age of 14. Her mother was a dressage rider. I doubt the lessons with CH whilst she was still at school were cheap. She came from a horsey background but sadly lost her mother at an early age.
She is not someone who came from nowhere she started riding at a young age and was well connected not like an average child riding at a RS.
She is not someone who came from nowhere she started riding at a young age and was well connected not like an average child riding at a RS.
SO1
Well-Known Member
Yes I believe his mother is a show jumper. It is not just money but connections. If you have limited means but have good connections it can help with getting into training programs or finding mentors.
Arzada
Well-Known Member
Carl Hester was talent spotted on Sark by Jennie Baillie one of the founders of the Fortune Centre/College. He trained at, competed from and was supported by the Fortune Centre, I think for about a year. In that time he won the 1985 Young Dressage Rider Championship on Jolly Dolly owned by Jennie Baillie and based at the Fortune Centre. Dolly was a talented little skewbald mare of unknown breeding, about 15.1 hh who had previously competed in other disciplines with Mrs Baillie's daughters. Here they are https://www.pinterest.ch/pin/451767406360961744/ Carl moved from the Fortune Centre to the Bechtolsheimers.
SO1
Well-Known Member
Influencers tend not to be professional riders in the same way as love Island or other reality tv stars are not professional actors. It is all gloss and showing off and light entertainment often no substance. The main goal being selling a story that people will buy into, self promotion and gaining followers either to make money or to satisfy a craving to get lots of likes.
A professional rider's main goal is to be at the top of their game. Money is helpful as are connections but time is also important. If you have money and don't need to work this gives you not just access to top horses and trainers but time to train. If you are a multi millionaire with access to top horses and trainers but are so busy working that you can only ride once or twice a week you probably won't get to the top levels.
Young people who are well connected and get free training and support from family who are in the business or successful riders themselves also have an advantage.
I don't think you need to be rich but you do need access to horses and time to learn in order to develop and showcase your talent in order to get a backer. This is easier if you or your family have the funds to loan or own horses and you are able to complete.
A professional rider's main goal is to be at the top of their game. Money is helpful as are connections but time is also important. If you have money and don't need to work this gives you not just access to top horses and trainers but time to train. If you are a multi millionaire with access to top horses and trainers but are so busy working that you can only ride once or twice a week you probably won't get to the top levels.
Young people who are well connected and get free training and support from family who are in the business or successful riders themselves also have an advantage.
I don't think you need to be rich but you do need access to horses and time to learn in order to develop and showcase your talent in order to get a backer. This is easier if you or your family have the funds to loan or own horses and you are able to complete.