It happened AGAIN! :( cant take anymore!

Omarkiam

Omarkiam

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I posted up a few times, latest one being I was nervous to canter my new boy as a previous horse dented my confidence as she bolted with me.
My new boy is a confidence giver but can get over excited.

I took my new one and my old one out yesterday and ended up in hospital again.

They both bolted, Omie is not a bolter at all, its not him in any way shape or form, he is a total plod, hes the one I teach kids and friends to ride on, because I trust him with my life now. But he took off with me, and my friend was riding scat.
There was a horse going insane in the field next to us, which never normlly sets Omie off, he will have a look and be like OOOOO I wanna say hello. But thats it, and Scat is never phased by anything when out, hes bombproof in company, although nervous alone.

And suddenly, scat cantered, unknown as too why, and that set omie off, and as you can guess, between the pair of them they decided that was it, I didnt fall off, I threw myself off, Omie is a big 17hh cob x arab, and there was an extremely harsh bend coming up,and what made it worse was it was down hill, and we struggle to get down it in walk without slip or two,so for both of our safety I knew I had to do the best thing and jump off. So I hit the gravel whilst Omie caught up with Scat, my friend had managed to stay on scat for ages and ages, eventully she said she too fell forward and felt she couldnt get back into comfortable position so she helped herself off.

I know that you will all say get rid, but I dont want too, I want to work with these boys as I know they both have a tonne of potential. Whats the point getting rid just to give the problem too someone else, both boys havent had great pasts so dont want to move them again, I want to be their forever home.
I am confident enough to get back on them, but I will not go that same way where there bolted for a while now. I wasn't really that scared when Omie bolted as he is so wide and has a very easily sat gallop, I attempted one rein stop several times, but it was totally useless, especially where he is ridden bitless, he just pulled his head back round.

The reason for me posting is too ask if anyone knows any paritcular ground work or ridden work that can help get them out of this bolting phase.

No its not vet related, both been recently checked, it was some sort of spook plus mixture of other factors, friend not a brilliant rider and kicked her legs a bit, therefore sending scat forward more.

thanks in advance!
 
Firstly you poor poor thing. It's never nice to get a fright like that - especially from a horse that you trust implicitly, and well done you for being brave enough to try to sort out the problem
Secondly, when you say they bolted do you mean they cantered off down the road, or was it a proper bolt? I've had one true bolter and he ended up being put down because he was so dangerous. When I say bolting, I mean literally running blind, flat out, into or over or through anything in their path, seemingly not bothering about staying on their feet. That to me is a bolt.
When a horse takes off, that's much much easier to sort out - a sudden "oooh! life is VERY EXCITING!" moment in which a horse feels the need to go cantering off down the road with his friend is a different kettle of fish altogether in my opinion.
Not meaning to sound preachy or be annoying, but which of the above two did your boys do? If we know exactly what they did, then we can be of more help I'm sure!
 
Starzaan said:
Firstly you poor poor thing. It's never nice to get a fright like that - especially from a horse that you trust implicitly, and well done you for being brave enough to try to sort out the problem
Secondly, when you say they bolted do you mean they cantered off down the road, or was it a proper bolt? I've had one true bolter and he ended up being put down because he was so dangerous. When I say bolting, I mean literally running blind, flat out, into or over or through anything in their path, seemingly not bothering about staying on their feet. That to me is a bolt.
When a horse takes off, that's much much easier to sort out - a sudden "oooh! life is VERY EXCITING!" moment in which a horse feels the need to go cantering off down the road with his friend is a different kettle of fish altogether in my opinion.
Not meaning to sound preachy or be annoying, but which of the above two did your boys do? If we know exactly what they did, then we can be of more help I'm sure!
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It was defintely a proper bolt for Omie, a landrover had to violently pull out the way because he was running straight for it and showed no signs of stopping, he was a complete wreck when he got back, nervous, pacing around,throwing his weight into the fencing, sweating profusely etc
Whereas I think scat just thought it was extremely fun, I got back to find him eating his hay happily, not a sweat on him anywhere! Omie definately bolted properly, it really was a full speed gallop, and he didnt care atall about anything around him :(
 
Starzaan said:
When I say bolting, I mean literally running blind, flat out, into or over or through anything in their path, seemingly not bothering about staying on their feet. That to me is a bolt.
When a horse takes off, that's much much easier to sort out - a sudden "oooh! life is VERY EXCITING!" moment in which a horse feels the need to go cantering off down the road with his friend is a different kettle of fish altogether in my opinion.
Not meaning to sound preachy or be annoying, but which of the above two did your boys do? If we know exactly what they did, then we can be of more help I'm sure!
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second this, and without sounding harsh, is it your confidence and lack (sorry if this is the wrong word) of ability to deal with it, if its yes, then you need some professional help, maybe lessons, gorund work to give you the confidence to deal with whatever they throw at you, there is no such thing as bombproof really, as hacking past someones house the other day our little boombproof spooked when someone slammed their front door, and he went bum out sideways into the road, my 9 year old was on him, giggling her head off she found it funny, its more on how you deal with the situation, than what they do!

I get sideways tranter past plastic, does not bother me, I just leg him on then half halt him back, on toes a little but after that calms down, its keeping the 'clear' head to sort it out, rather than letting yourself become panicked and frightened ;)
 
pillion said:
second this, and without sounding harsh, is it your confidence and lack (sorry if this is the wrong word) of ability to deal with it, if its yes, then you need some professional help, maybe lessons, gorund work to give you the confidence to deal with whatever they throw at you, there is no such thing as bombproof really, as hacking past someones house the other day our little boombproof spooked when someone slammed their front door, and he went bum out sideways into the road, my 9 year old was on him, giggling her head off she found it funny, its more on how you deal with the situation, than what they do!

I get sideways tranter past plastic, does not bother me, I just leg him on then half halt him back, on toes a little but after that calms down, its keeping the 'clear' head to sort it out, rather than letting yourself become panicked and frightened ;)
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I guess it is a lack of my ability, but I just cant afford proper professional training. Guess its just my time to give up on horses, and come back a few years down the line.

I cant keep taking these knocks they are killing me, but I really only live for my horses! I don't want to give them up but I don't want to hold them back.
 
You poor thing and poor Omie that is not nice at all. I don't think you need to write him off but you do need to get to the root of the issue. Just out of interest why is he bitless? It sounds like you do need the extra security of a bit even just for hacking. I would suggest learn to bridge your reins. get someone very experienced on Scat who can stop him joining in just for fun and he can be a security blanket for Omie. Have you any racing yards nearby?? Jockeys/work riders can be great for getting to the bottom of Bolters and helping to break the cycle. My OH has done this quite a bit for people
 
Omarkiam said:
I guess it is a lack of my ability, but I just cant afford proper professional training. Guess its just my time to give up on horses, and come back a few years down the line.

I cant keep taking these knocks they are killing me, but I really only live for my horses! I don't want to give them up but I don't want to hold them back.
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please dont give up! :eek: the only thing that will help your confidence is to work through it, this will make you a better rider in the end, trust me find the right instructor out there, and you will look back on this post and say 'pah! what was I THINKING', its hard when you have confidence to understand what it feels like to have none (would love to give you some)
 
Oh poor you, what a horrible frightening thing to happen.

Without wishing to be negative, you might have problems for a while if horses/cows run about in an adjoining field when you are hacking.

I had a mare who would tank off if that happened and there was genuine fear. Although, in her case it wasn't a true bolt but she was unstoppable if she got away from you non the less. If the other horse I was riding with couldn't have been controlled and took off too I would have been in trouble!

With mine she would set her neck and go like an exocet missile. The way I got round it was, at the first hint of trouble, bend her neck strongly in the direction of the problem and keep flexing it! (not being able to see the noise was worst for her). She was never brilliant, but was controllable. The key was flexing the neck and not allowing it out straight in front (and to not let her get out of walk!) If he gets away from you don't consistently pull on the reins, lift and pull on one, release and then the other way. Bridge your reins too.

I'm sorry not to be entirely positive. I would make sure you only hack with someone in full control for a while
 
Thank you for all replies.

Its killing me, really hard to know whats right for us both, I wouldnt say its totally knocked my confidence cos if I wasnt in a sling and was able to walk today I would be straight back on them, but I couldnt trust Omie again now with my friends, I'd never want to put anyone else in that same position.

I just feel like hving totl breakdown, I was doing so well ith them, and had bought Omie on from nervous reck to a confidence giver, now I feel back at square one. :(

I try to keep Omie in walk but his stride is like a tank, so strong and try to hold him back he will trot on the spot, if I turn him round, once hes turned the full circle he tries to bolt to catch up!

Edit - forgot to say, he is ridden bitless due to broken jaw. I did re-bit him with a rubber bit but he chewed through the entire thing in one hack, I am not buying one bit for every hack! But hes 12 and comfortable bitless, I don't want to start fiddling with his mouth.
 
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Please can you explain why he is bitless? Especially if he is built like a tank. And if he is bitless what sort of bitless bridle is he in. It really does not sound like a true bolt. more of a horse getting its head and having one hell of a party because it can. My old boy would set his neck and go, and he ripped my hands raw trying to hold him, but if i put him into a pelham for hacking in company and never allowed him to get out of control then I could keep control easily. You will never win a battle on sheer strength and when two horses are having a party you are into a pure battle of strength. Both were probably feeling fresh and looking for an excuse. Mine would go out looking for trouble some days, and I had to be ready for it.

Now is the time to evaluate your bitting. establish why he is bitless and then assess which bit will suit. And bit up hard. it is far far better to put in a harsh bit and use it gentl;y than a gentle bit and use it harshly. My problems were all solved with a straight bar vulcanite pelham. he loved it and it was a gentle bit unless I used teh curb rein - which he totally respected.
 
Bosworth said:
Please can you explain why he is bitless? Especially if he is built like a tank. And if he is bitless what sort of bitless bridle is he in. It really does not sound like a true bolt. more of a horse getting its head and having one hell of a party because it can. My old boy would set his neck and go, and he ripped my hands raw trying to hold him, but if i put him into a pelham for hacking in company and never allowed him to get out of control then I could keep control easily. You will never win a battle on sheer strength and when two horses are having a party you are into a pure battle of strength. Both were probably feeling fresh and looking for an excuse. Mine would go out looking for trouble some days, and I had to be ready for it.

Now is the time to evaluate your bitting. establish why he is bitless and then assess which bit will suit. And bit up hard. it is far far better to put in a harsh bit and use it gentl;y than a gentle bit and use it harshly. My problems were all solved with a straight bar vulcanite pelham. he loved it and it was a gentle bit unless I used teh curb rein - which he totally respected.
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I have already explained why he HAS too be ridden bitless.

It WAS a true bolt, I know Omie well enough, and I know what a true bolt is.

He bolted out of fright, I know exactly how he acts, Scat bolted as he enjoys it. Omie DID set his neck and was determined to go, I was holding and pulling back and right or left as hard as my whole body would allow and it made no difference, my hands too were red raw!

His bitless bridle is a poll pressure bridle, simple bosal over the nose.

Insurance dont cover for dentistry to rebreak his jaw and fix it, and I don't have the money to pay for private! Hes been ridden bitless for years and hasnt yet done any harm so can't see that re-bitting him will help at the moment, but let me get one thing straight, Omie properly bolted, it wasn't being fresh, or anything like that. He gets ridden EVERYDAY, and quite often we do that route, and normally he is laid back and calm, and sometimes even just lazy!
 
Omarkiam said:
Hes been ridden bitless for years and hasnt yet done any harm
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Except that you couldn't stop him on this occasion and had to bail out - that's potentially fatal, never mind just harmful. :o

If you could get a rubber bit in, presumably there's no physical reason why you couldn't try something else that he can't chew through? If you just don't want to, that's fine, but that would certainly be my first port of call and it doesn't sound as though the jaw problem absolutely prevents using a bit.

It's difficult to know exactly what the circumstances were, from your post - you say he bolted, but you also say he will "bolt" to catch up, and that Scat "bolted as he enjoys it", but neither of these situations is ever is a bolt. I hope you don't mind me saying so, but it would be clearer if you maybe used "took off" rather than "bolted" for those times when it isn't a bolt, just so that it's easier for us to understand the exact circumstances. :)

If it was a true bolt, I'm afraid that's not something I'd even be thinking about trying to work through. :( Taking off - even through fear - is very different, and can be fixed, but bolting is an entirely different kettle of fish.
 
Oh sweetie, you sound so unhappy. I really do feel for you. Have you access to a menage? Stop hacking for at least 4 months and get some groundwork in so you can let the little bugger know YOU are in control and when you say stop - he stops. He needs to start listening to you again - and that means hours and hours of groundwork.
Please read Perfect Manners by Mary Wanless - that is where it ALL starts. Get the bugger to listen!
 
I think you need to, at the least, upgrade your bitless bridle, a simple bosal doesn't give a lot of control

Or it sounds like he was ok in a bit (other than eating it) I'd try again but with a metal one as long as his jaw is completely ok now.

I wouldn't turn in a complete circle, the objective is to get safely past the problem not orbit around on the spot. But I would bend his neck strongly at first hint of danger as its way harder for them to tank (think variation on 1 rein halt or whatever its called!)
But I'd look at your brakes as a matter of urgency.
 
It sounds utterly terrifying especially if unexpected behaviour but I think it's worth making whatever savings you can somewhere to put towards lessons with a good RI who can give you some solid schooling to maybe help deal with such problems and also get your confidence back on track (as sounds like over last few weeks it has totally gone) then I think it would be worth it's weight in gold. I couldn't get on my horse for a week once when I first had him as he'd scared me so much out hacking with vile napping and if it hadn't been for our weekly lessons it would have trickled on being an issue. Once you feel nervous the horse is obviously going to pick up on it too and it just snowballs. Hope your arm is OK and heals quickly. Not on the scale you describe but it is a funny time of year too now, most of the mares and geldings at our yard are having a funny 5 mins on a regular basis at the moment as the grass is coming through and with the light shifting they just want to get out in the fields and go mad and a few have been a bit of a challenge when ridden.
 
If Omie was panicked be careful when you take him out again. He could well tank off again even though it is not in his nature. He will need some confidence building. Tiny steps.
 
Omarkiam said:
It was defintely a proper bolt for Omie, a landrover had to violently pull out the way because he was running straight for it and showed no signs of stopping, he was a complete wreck when he got back, nervous, pacing around,throwing his weight into the fencing, sweating profusely etc
Whereas I think scat just thought it was extremely fun, I got back to find him eating his hay happily, not a sweat on him anywhere! Omie definately bolted properly, it really was a full speed gallop, and he didnt care atall about anything around him :(
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Please get some professional help- you could have caused a serious accident or killed yourself, the horse or another road user.
 
Kaylum said:
What feed are they getting and how much turn out. If they were mine they would be out 24/7 if poss.
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They do live out 24/7.

They get simple hifi with half scoop of pony nuts and some codlivine supplements.

Yes he does take off, thats a better word, he can bolt to catch up but its controllable, and I could even halt him if I felt it necessary.

As for the turning on the spot, I only do this when he is being too forward going, I would NEVER dream of doing this if he was frightened of something!

I am going to stop riding him I think and go back to some simple groundwork and some de-sensitizing. Thank you for replies.

I do need an instructor and will get one asap.

Omie CANNOT be bitted with a metal bit, as the break is right where the bit would sit. And the reason it is broken is misuse by previous owner of a Chifney bit. I would never metal bit him, metal on bone would be horribly painful for him, and would cause me more problems than bitless!
 
If he can wear a ruber bit then I would seriously consider bitting him. I have wrked a horse that had previously badly broken its jaw and we could use a bit no problem. I understand why you want to keep him bitless but if it was me I would forsake bitless and try bitting if it meant a safer happy horse and rider. If you really don't want to try a bit then a stronger bitless bridle or proper hackamore sounds necessary
 
Omarkiam said:
Omie CANNOT be bitted with a metal bit, as the break is right where the bit would sit. And the reason it is broken is misuse by previous owner of a Chifney bit. I would never metal bit him, metal on bone would be horribly painful for him, and would cause me more problems than bitless!
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Just out of interest have you tried a bit wrapped in latex? It makes a fantastic difference and you could even use it on runner bits to make them more comfy! I know it is not a good analogy but I used latex bitwrap on crutch handle and it made such a difference to my hands so on a softer bit it would be a great help to his mouth!
 
I had a nasty accident on my young horse when he bolted. I used a fantastic trainer who resolved all his issues - most of all bolting, and he's now safe as houses. Can provide details if you like.

Just a warning - getting somebody good who can really help you and your horses resolve problems for the long term isn't going to be cheap.
 
Thanks for replies, I might try a ne bit, one with stainless still inside, but rubber outside, he defintely cant have a bit, vet has confirmed this, just rubber is the only option, possibly happy mouth.

I have a hackamore and it sends him crazy, he hates it and starts to play up with it, horrendous head throwing aswell so thats out of the question.

I hve few tricks up my sleeze to try first, then I shall resort to professional help, but I defintely willl go back to basics with him!
 
A lot of horses get full of themselves at this time of year, and spooky. It can continue through spring as the grass starts to come through. You are lucky that yours live out, so don't have to be ridden. Did I remember right that you're in a sling? Give yourself a break, rought them off for a few months, get yourself right, perhaps save up a bit of money to get some help. Leave it to summer, when they're fat with grass and its hot - they won't feel so spritely! Could you find someone experienced to ride them first?
 
I can absolutely tell you now, that your horse will bolt with you again if you continue to ride him in a bitless bridle in those situations, you basically have no control with one of these. Thats why bits were invented....

I had this happen to me once many years ago, i was riding a hore in a hackamore on a fun ride and she bolted flat out down hill, and straight over a 5ft cotswold stone wall into a thicket of trees... she crashed one way i went the other...

Please, please do not continue to ride in this situation, the horse is now well aware of his strength and this situation will arise again. As many people have posted there is many gentle bits you can try, and the bit is only as hard as the users hands, if the horse is behaving it shouldnt be a burden to have a bit in its mouth.

I do sympathise with you, but quite honestly from what i have read so far, you are asking for trouble.
 
Omarkiam said:
Yes he does take off, thats a better word, he can bolt to catch up but its controllable, and I could even halt him if I felt it necessary.
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This phrase worries me. I understand from this that you LET him tank off to catch up, so basically he now thinks he can make all the decisions about where he goes and how fast, when he wants to. I have to catch up with my hacking buddies at times, but I choose when we do that - the one time my horse set off at a trot of his own accord, I made him walk again then trotted when I wanted to.

Perhaps some schooling and a calmer hacking partner would be helpful for you both? I hope you heal from your injuries soon - it's not nice falling off at full speed!!:)
 
You really need someone to come and see you ride, to ride one/both of these themselves, and to set up similar situations in a safer environment to see the reaction. Most horses will become wound up by other horses running around, as the only reason they can see for that is fear of something dangerous, and their instincts tell them to get away too. Also, most horses will go if their companion does, and once 'gone' it turns into a race and is then VERY hard to pull either up if they're not well trained and rider doesn't know what they're doing in that situation.

I would suspect that horses running around = your guys getting a bit antsy = you being just a little nervous = horse(s) picking up on your nerves, thinking there actually IS something dangerous, and going. Your ensuing panic (understandable), then fuels that fear and therefore fuels the running.

I was run off with a fair few times as a child, once because my friend's horse spooked and went on open moor. I had NO brakes whatsoever, not because it was a true bolt, but because my horse wasn't stopping until it caught up with its friend and its friend stopped too!

True bolting comes from paralyzing type fear or pain. If your horse bolted out of fear and you can't reassure him confidently, don't ride him out until you can.
 
Unless I have misread this, it seems that omie isn't the sort to bolt ususally and just got carried away when the other horses took off presumabley due to the horse in the field hooning around. If that is the case then I really wouldn't get fixated on it, horses are flight animals/ herd instinct takes over in certain situations and no horse is boomproof enough to always turn a blind eye to that. As awlful as it is when these things happen they are part of having horses. Get an instructor to help build your confidence and go on short slow hacks for a while.
I really feel for you I have only had that happen to me a couple of times but it is the worst feeling to be that out of control.
 
I think you need lessons.

I'm picking up on the fact you have these two because your old horse shattered your confidence bolting, and now they bolt. I don't think you have bolters par se, but horses you encourage to run away.

My sister is the same, every horse she rides bolts. Horses who never bolt with anyone else. She is too soft on the hands and encourages them to keep going, confusing them with mixed messages and so they don't stop.

I'm the opposite, and I've ridden practically every horse she has and I've rarely had problems with bolting.

Not the horse, the rider, in this circumstances.
 
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