It happened AGAIN! :( cant take anymore!

there are so many bits out there that are not metal, you can use rubber, vulcanite, happy mouth. You can use a straight bar, a lozenge, anythuing to give you some control. A bosal is hopeless if the horse needs to be stopped. basically you are relying on your horse being considerate enough to listen to the Bosal as he has no real need to. I can understand your not being able to use metal, but I would start with a rubber straight bar pelham with two reins and a curb and see how he reacts to that. That should allow you to stop him tanking off, and will allow you to then retain control. Unfortunately once he has realised he can run through the bosal it is unlikely that you will retain control in it. I would suggest you ride in a rubber bit, get him back under control and respectful, then maybe you can go back to the bosal once he has learned respect.
 
This is a very confusing post... firstly you claim he is a 'confidence giver' who never bolts. Then you say that he bolts to catch up and can be very forward going. This would not be behaviour that I would equate to a horse who is a confidence giver, if he bolts to catch up he clearly has always had the potential to tank off when he pleases. (and you let him) You say he cant be bitted, then say he has been bitted and 'ate through' a rubber bit in one ride!! You say that his jaw is broken to such an extent that where the bit sits would hurt him, how then would he be able to 'eat' a bit in one ride?? It would be too painful surely?
How long have you had this horse? I agree with others, you need some help as it doesnt sound as though you have the experience to manage this alone from the things you are saying.
 
Omarkiam said:
Yes he does take off, thats a better word, he can bolt to catch up but its controllable, and I could even halt him if I felt it necessary.
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I really don't want you to think I'm jumping on the band wagon but if a "bolt" is controllable...its not a bolt. Bolts are wild and unstoppable until they are calm enough to come back to you. I think you really do need professional help before you do some permanent damage to these horses. Probably not what you want to hear but as you're asking peoples opinions - this is mine :)
 
This is why I want to give up.

Its clear from everyones posts Im basically not a good enough rider for these horses. And too be honest, Ive lost all spirit in going up to the horses just too feed them now, I feel a total failure.

Judging by everyones posts, its got to be me thats riding wrong and caused the situation to arise. But what I have tried to explain is I WASNT nervous when Omie began to canter, purely because I never imagined he would be unstoppable, I was more worried for my friend.

I only threw myself off because of the harsh bend coming up, we would never both have made it round, otherwise I would have been able to stay on, but I knew it wasnt safe. Yes I let omie catch up, but only when I ASK him too, he gets forward going in his walk, so I hold him back then I allow a small catch up trot. The difference is, if Scat had stopped somewhere, Omie would not have stopped going, I know it. He would have gone stright past.

I dont understand why the vet would tell me he cant hve a bit if he could. Its the fact the bit lies on the bone where its broken. Thats why he cant have one. Vet has said it will break it further, and when it sits in the mouth it lies on the bit where its broken, especially when Omie chews on his bit so much...

I dont know what to do anymore, but I know you guys are right, and because I dont have the enthusiasm anymore, I may aswell just give up :(

Just a quick edit - please remember its not esy to explin things using a keyboard, face to face I could probably explain this much better. Omie has never been a real problem ,yes he can be forward going but with a good seat, he is plenty controllable enough, thts why this behaviour was so unexpected. Ive had plenty of people ride him out and we have had no problem past that same horse.
 
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Don't give up unless your heart is really not in it anymore. I think people just don't want to see you hurt, and I know what this is like, I think a good instructor would do you a lot of good and you'd enjoy your horse more, and isn't that what it's about?

I'm not saying your situation is identical but here's what happened with us.
When my daughter was 16 I bought her the world's most unsuitable horse. To compound this unwise purchase we then did everything wrong that you could ever do just because we didn't know any better. We ended up with a rude, spoiled horse who was becoming dangerous on the ground and under saddle.

It took someone in our real life to basically say to me "If you want your daughter to get hurt carry on, otherwise you need to make big changes or sell the horse" That really shook me up, who wants to hear that they've bought foolishly and put their child in danger? My daughter really wanted to make it work so I supported her in that.

Since then, my daughter and her horse have been on an epic personal journey and both have grown and learned a lot so even if there comes a point when my daughter can't take her any further it was certainly a journey worth taking.
 
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amymay said:
Or just buy a more suitable horse......
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Ditto this. Cobs/cob x are big strong animals who will often use the enormous strength in their neck against you. I have had several and although fine to ride in a strong enough bit I cannot stop them on a headcollar and have spent plenty of time being dragged about by them! They set their neck and go (cue skiing round the yard episode).

There are better and easier confidence givers in this world, and these type of horses are born not made. The most unlikely looking type/breed/age could be the safest horse you have ever ridden. A proper confidence giver would never, ever frighten you no matter what happened, they are too kind and know as soon as you are worried. Confidence givers do not bolt, rear, buck or anything else that is frightening unless they think you are happy.

I know that it is easy to think, oh what will happen to them if I sell them but what makes you think you are the only person who can give them a nice home? (Sorry don't mean to sound harsh but someone once said it to me and actually it is true). Also, horses cost a lot of money to keep, they are not pets, you have them to do a job of work and if they don't cut the mustard then move them on to someone who may perhaps enjoy them more.

Don't give up, just re think your current situation and look for a proper confidence giver.
 
Omarkiam said:
Judging by everyones posts, its got to be me thats riding wrong and caused the situation to arise. But what I have tried to explain is I WASNT nervous when Omie began to canter, purely because I never imagined he would be unstoppable, I was more worried for my friend.
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I don't think its that fact you can't ride, everyone has to start somewhere, just stop making excuses as to why you WON'T get professional help before you injure yourself, your horses or someone else.
 
If Omie has bolted once it DOESN'T necessarily mean he will do it again. I expect he was carried away by the situation, the other horse, his hacking partner etc. I would go back to basics, hack him out on his own or with something calmer, and try to forget about the awful experience you just had (I know it's hard!). Try to learn how to relax and enjoy him.
My horse has never, ever bolted with me. Yes he can be strong, yes he has taken off bucking, yes he has tanked, but never bolted in blind panic. I use a one-rein stop and hold on for dear life. However he did 'bolt', twice, with my sharer. She describes heading home along a bridleway, cantering and him just taking off and being unstoppable. The other time he apparently bolted away from a tractor, down the road back to the yard. Despite him being pretty much bombproof with traffic!
These incidents are completely out of character for him, he is not a bolter! He has never done it since. I can only assume that HER riding caused it somehow. So maybe you do need someone to look at your riding critically. Perhaps you tense up?
If you want to give this horse a chance, then do so. If you sell him on, how do you know any other rider will be able to deal with it? And I think maybe the issue is more within YOU, not your horse. You need to rise to the challenge and DON'T give up!

As for the bitting issue, any horse that size can throw it's weight against you, regardless of what is in it's mouth. You know your horse so you decide what bit you use.
 
Omarkiam said:
Thank you for all replies.

Its killing me, really hard to know whats right for us both, I wouldnt say its totally knocked my confidence cos if I wasnt in a sling and was able to walk today I would be straight back on them, but I couldnt trust Omie again now with my friends, I'd never want to put anyone else in that same position.

I just feel like hving totl breakdown, I was doing so well ith them, and had bought Omie on from nervous reck to a confidence giver, now I feel back at square one. :(

I try to keep Omie in walk but his stride is like a tank, so strong and try to hold him back he will trot on the spot, if I turn him round, once hes turned the full circle he tries to bolt to catch up!

Edit - forgot to say, he is ridden bitless due to broken jaw. I did re-bit him with a rubber bit but he chewed through the entire thing in one hack, I am not buying one bit for every hack! But hes 12 and comfortable bitless, I don't want to start fiddling with his mouth.
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Perhaps you need to look into alternatives regarding the bit, with the help of an instructor. I ride mine with double reins with a rubber pelham, I very very rarely need the bottom rein, the contact is taken up on the top rein, but its there for when I need it. I don't know what you could use if your horse broke his jaw. If he chewed through a bit in one ride it must have been a very soft one. Try a vulcanite one or hard rubber instead you can get most bits in these materials these days, or there's happy mouth, KK which are lovely but expensive.
 
As others have said... Get an instructor. 30 or 40 pounds (ish) a few times isn't a lot compared to what you must spend on both your horses overall. And it is a lot less than what you'd loose if you were involved in a serious accident.

Agree that you should follow your vet's advice re: safe bitting for the the sake of your horse. There are different options for bitless, you may need to try a few... with the advice of your instructor.

Good luck.
 
I agree with Doormouse here, and as my father always says to me (normally when trying to change a naughty horse's ways) 'There are far too many good horses out there to be struggling with a bad one'.
It is meant to be a hobby that is fun and if you are having no fun or enjoyment then maybe it would be better for you to sell your horses and buy one quiet calm horse?
Whatever you decide to do make sure that you make the whole horse thing fun again!!:)
 
Omarkiam said:
This is why I want to give up.

Its clear from everyones posts Im basically not a good enough rider for these horses. And too be honest, Ive lost all spirit in going up to the horses just too feed them now, I feel a total failure.

Judging by everyones posts, its got to be me thats riding wrong and caused the situation to arise. But what I have tried to explain is I WASNT nervous when Omie began to canter, purely because I never imagined he would be unstoppable, I was more worried for my friend.

I only threw myself off because of the harsh bend coming up, we would never both have made it round, otherwise I would have been able to stay on, but I knew it wasnt safe. Yes I let omie catch up, but only when I ASK him too, he gets forward going in his walk, so I hold him back then I allow a small catch up trot. The difference is, if Scat had stopped somewhere, Omie would not have stopped going, I know it. He would have gone stright past.

I dont understand why the vet would tell me he cant hve a bit if he could. Its the fact the bit lies on the bone where its broken. Thats why he cant have one. Vet has said it will break it further, and when it sits in the mouth it lies on the bit where its broken, especially when Omie chews on his bit so much...

I dont know what to do anymore, but I know you guys are right, and because I dont have the enthusiasm anymore, I may aswell just give up :(

Just a quick edit - please remember its not esy to explin things using a keyboard, face to face I could probably explain this much better. Omie has never been a real problem ,yes he can be forward going but with a good seat, he is plenty controllable enough, thts why this behaviour was so unexpected. Ive had plenty of people ride him out and we have had no problem past that same horse.
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So if the vet told you not to use a bit how come he chewed through one ? sorry I'm confused
 
NOISYGIRL said:
So if the vet told you not to use a bit how come he chewed through one ? sorry I'm confused
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Vet said rubber one could be used, with no fill, so its just a flexible rubber snaffle. He chewed through this, nd it ws in half, just before we got back to the yard, he stopped, and threw a wobbly,I tried to move him on but he kept throwing his head, so I got off to see wht the problem was, only to find hlf a rubber bit hanging out one side, and half the other.

Vet said I cannot use a metal bit.

As for the ''WON'T'' get professional help, I never said that, sorry if it seemed tht way. I am going to double rein him with a happy mouth dutch gag and start some basic groundwork, work on his respect. I will not be riding him again until I am completely satisfied with him, so I shan't be putting anyone else in danger, so until then, I shan't call a professional in. If a month down the line, he is still not respecting me in the school, I shall call proper help in. I know this was out of character, which is why I dont feel a ''professional'' would help at the moment.
 
I am going to double rein him with a happy mouth dutch gag and start some basic groundwork, work on his respect
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This is the usual solution for someone to scared to ride a horse.

Don't fanny around, get yourself an instructor who can assess you and the horse and go from there.

Horse doesn't sound as if he's lacking respect, but rather an owner and jockey lacking in understanding and experience.
 
Omarkiam said:
As for the ''WON'T'' get professional help, I never said that, sorry if it seemed tht way. I am going to double rein him with a happy mouth dutch gag and start some basic groundwork, work on his respect. I will not be riding him again until I am completely satisfied with him, so I shan't be putting anyone else in danger, so until then, I shan't call a professional in. If a month down the line, he is still not respecting me in the school, I shall call proper help in. I know this was out of character, which is why I dont feel a ''professional'' would help at the moment.
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*shakes head in utter disbelief* Please feel free to go right ahead, let more car crash behaviour put yourself and your horse at risk, because obviously it is much better to plough on ignoring problems. Get it sorted NOW before you get more seriously hurt. Or here's a really radical idea if you don't want to take advice, sell up and do something where nobody will get hurt.
 
amymay said:
This is the usual solution for someone to scared to ride a horse.
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Excuse me? What a load of boll***s.

Why are these aids there in the first place?

Using a double rein is just so the stop is there if it's needed and yes he does lack respect. When he is ridden he is a total star normally. Although on the ground he can be bulshy, will drag away from you to eat, will use you as a scratchpost, and if your in his way he'll run you down! I have bought him on A LONG way since I had him. He had no manners, and wasn't being ridden atall.

I have worked hrd to get to where I am which is why I feel so helpless that he had a sudden setback.

I am sure there are many people on here who would agree that using a double rein does not mean someone is scared! I am preventing anyone being in danger by having extra control!
 
Baggybreeches said:
*shakes head in utter disbelief* Please feel free to go right ahead, let more car crash behaviour put yourself and your horse at risk, because obviously it is much better to plough on ignoring problems. Get it sorted NOW before you get more seriously hurt. Or here's a really radical idea if you don't want to take advice, sell up and do something where nobody will get hurt.
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I have said he shan't be ridden, or taken out of the yard until henis 100% redy to go out! so therefore I am not putting anyone in danger, or any cars!. I have asked a friend to help me, and she is a qualified instructor, she doesn't do it anymore and is not a professional as such but she know's what she is doing and will be assessing the situation and helping me and my horse move forward.

This is the first time I have ever had problems with him, so I am reluctant to instantly call a professional in.
 
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Why not just get an instructor in straight away? A good instructor won't just help you with resolving his issues - they should, hopefully, be able to help with resolving YOUR issues as well, which is extremely important if you want to work through this.
Your bridle set-up worries me as well because it sounds like he is simply too big and strong for it. I understand it is extremely difficult because he can't have a metal bit, but perhaps you could try him with different kinds of bitless. I know you said he hated the hackamore, but are you 100% sure it fitted correctly and was sitting in the right place? A good instructor should be able to help you with this as well.
Please don't try and do this all on your own! It isn't failing to ask for help.

ETA cross posted with OP.
 
Omarkiam said:
I have said he shan't be ridden, or taken out of the yard until basic groundwork is established. I have asked a friend to help me, and she is a qualified instructor, she doesn't do it anymore and is not a professional as such but she know's what she is doing and will be assessing the situation and helping me and my horse move forward.
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I was going to reply with some helpful advice but TBH can't be bothered. Good Luck
 
Baggybreeches said:
I was going to reply with some helpful advice but TBH can't be bothered. Good Luck
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Why post this then? And helpful advice? You practically laughed in my fce like one of the many know it all's on here!

I AGREE I MAY NEED TO GET PROFESSIONL IN, BUT SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST ''BIG'' PROBLEM OMIE HAS HAD, I WANTED TO TRY SOME BASIC GROUNDWORK ND PROBLEM SOLVING MYSELF FIRST! DURING WHICH I WOULD NOT BE PUTTING ANYONE ELSE IN DANGER, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?
 
Omarkiam said:
Why post this then? And helpful advice? You practically laughed in my fce like one of the many know it all's on here!

I AGREE I MAY NEED TO GET PROFESSIONL IN, BUT SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST ''BIG'' PROBLEM OMIE HAS HAD, I WANTED TO TRY SOME BASIC GROUNDWORK ND PROBLEM SOLVING MYSELF FIRST! DURING WHICH I WOULD NOT BE PUTTING ANYONE ELSE IN DANGER, WHAT IS WRONG WITH THAT?
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Because I have spent far too long dealing with horses and ponies that have been ****ed up by people wanting to 'try something else first' you have a problem, DEAL WITH IT NOW BEFORE IT BECOMES A HABIT
 
Sorry Omarkiam, I think BB has a point here. You can still do your ground work whilst having a good instructor to help you, it will be worth it!
 
Baggybreeches said:
Because I have spent far too long dealing with horses and ponies that have been ****ed up by people wanting to 'try something else first' you have a problem, DEAL WITH IT NOW BEFORE IT BECOMES A HABIT
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And I know too many horses then ended up being turned into a complete mess by ''professionals''.

Every horse and owner is different. So your saying to me that whenever a horse has a naughty episode, he or she is to be sent way straight away? Or have a professional come in straight away? Wht happens when the professionl is no longer there? As long as horse and rider are not any danger to anyone or themselves, week of schooling beforehand would do no harm!
 
Omarkiam said:
I have worked hard to get to where I am which is why I feel so helpless that he had a sudden setback.
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Which is why it's time to get help.

I am sure there are many people on here who would agree that using a double rein does not mean someone is scared! I am preventing anyone being in danger by having extra control!
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Not ridden control though. By your own admission you are nervous of this horse.

So either struggle on alone - or get someone to help you.
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p.s Even professional riders do this sometimes.........;)
 
I have already stated that I have arranged for an instructor to join me in weekly sessions to assess what the situation is and how to improve it.
 
Omarkiam said:
And I know too many horses then ended up being turned into a complete mess by ''professionals''.

Every horse and owner is different. So your saying to me that whenever a horse has a naughty episode, he or she is to be sent way straight away? Or have a professional come in straight away? Wht happens when the professionl is no longer there? As long as horse and rider are not any danger to anyone or themselves, week of schooling beforehand would do no harm!
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So do I, but from what you have posted, I make judgement that you lack the necessary experience/confidence/attitude to deal with the problems you have encountered, therefore in your situation I would call in some experienced help.
If it happened to me personally I would deal with it myself because I like to think that with 30+years experience of riding and handling all kinds of 'salefodder' I would be able to cope.
The longer you leave the problem the more 'reinforced' the behaviour becomes, the harder the problem is to deal with. It will be dealt with more quickly and easily if you do something now.
 
Omarkiam said:
And I know too many horses then ended up being turned into a complete mess by ''professionals''.

Every horse and owner is different. So your saying to me that whenever a horse has a naughty episode, he or she is to be sent way straight away? Or have a professional come in straight away? Wht happens when the professionl is no longer there? As long as horse and rider are not any danger to anyone or themselves, week of schooling beforehand would do no harm!
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You are completely missing the point of what people are saying to you.
 
Omarkiam said:
And I know too many horses then ended up being turned into a complete mess by ''professionals''.

Every horse and owner is different. So your saying to me that whenever a horse has a naughty episode, he or she is to be sent way straight away? Or have a professional come in straight away? Wht happens when the professionl is no longer there? As long as horse and rider are not any danger to anyone or themselves, week of schooling beforehand would do no harm!
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I'm very confused by this thread. The title (your own words) is: "It happened AGAIN :( can't take anymore!" which makes it sound like you have a big problem, and you've suggested various times that you're at the the end of your tether, can't cope anymore etc etc. Which makes all of us think it really is time to get the professionals in. Yet now you're saying that it was just a "naughty episode" and that you don't need an instructor (I don't think anyone is suggesting you send him away btw, just that you pay a good, qualified instructor to come out and give you both lessons). If it's just a "naughty episode" I'm not quite sure why you feel the only solution is to piffle around doing groundwork and not ride him for the foreseeable future? My mare has "naughty episodes" every now and then but they're never dangerous or difficult to deal with, she just occasionally has spooky days. Groundwork is all well and good, but do you know what sort of groundwork to do to solve your problem? Is it a problem best solved by groundwork or by ridden work? If you're just doing groundwork because you think that's what you should be doing but you don't really know, then it just strikes me as absolutely pointless.
 
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