it IS the little things that count! Marginal gains - Olympic cyclists

Chloe_GHE

Chloe_GHE

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Ok so no i haven't gone mad and started posting about cycling, I have however been inspired by their approach towards training and improving performance.

Team GB's cyclists have a fantastic coach in Dave Brailsford who employed the principle of 'marginal gains' in order to achieve the astounding results they gained at London 2012

Funnily enough I sort of came across this principle several years ago at a BE CDT day where BE coach Claire Turner told me 'if you can control everything that you can control then it eliminates the chances that something can go wrong' eg if you cover ever base in your training then if you are surprised by a situation the odds will already be stacked in your favour.

I have blogged about my thoughts here http://www.gifthorseeventing.co.uk/2013/03/its-all-about-the-little-things.html for what they are worth! ;)

Has anyone else ever come across this school of thought in equestrianism?... and what 'marginal gains' do you work on to help improve your performance?...
 
I wrote a long piece about this in one of the more cerebral posts that came up over the winter. Can't remember which one, sorry! Probably one of Tarrsteps... ;)

My favourite bit from cycling Team GB this summer was where they got the French team into a flap when they let out a snippet of secret information that the reason we were so fast was because our wheels were extra round. L'Equipe even did an article on it! :D

I think it's a lot harder to apply to a sport where there are a lot more variables (not lease the horse!) but everything that can be done should be done. The Farifax girth is a good example. If it can be shown to gain you even a 1% increase in dressage scores (a marginal gain) then it should be employed.
 
Cant say I really buy into this at all . Hang on ,if you improve everything you do by 1% then you improve by............1% . Weighing your self down with a whole load of what must ultimately be obsessive crap is not my idea of a positive training programme. Hang on I dont have my usual pillow so my performance is going to fall. This is the counter side to the argument. Start believing that all this stuff is what makes it happen ,then when real life +++++ it up you have already put yourself into a loosing frame of mind.The trick is to figure out what really matters and to disregard the Bull ,regardless of how many people around you believe it.There is a world of difference between fine tuning ones performance , and saddling oneself with a load of additional things to be anxious about.
 
I'm somewhere in the middle on this. I do believe that 'controlling the controllables' is a good thing and something to aspire to but I also accept that, as an amateur who works full time and tries to have a life outside horses, it's unlikely that I'm going to be able to cover every base. Or at least if I did try, it's unlikely the horses would leave the yard very much!

At the lower levels it is entirely possible to be pretty successful with a more relaxed approach and the gains can be exponential when considering 'input vs. outputs'. As you move up the ranks the margin for error reduces, other competitors and their horses are so much better, and that's when the little things really start to count.
 
Gamebird said:
I wrote a long piece about this in one of the more cerebral posts that came up over the winter. Can't remember which one, sorry! Probably one of Tarrsteps... ;)

My favourite bit from cycling Team GB this summer was where they got the French team into a flap when they let out a snippet of secret information that the reason we were so fast was because our wheels were extra round. L'Equipe even did an article on it! :D

I think it's a lot harder to apply to a sport where there are a lot more variables (not lease the horse!) but everything that can be done should be done. The Farifax girth is a good example. If it can be shown to gain you even a 1% increase in dressage scores (a marginal gain) then it should be employed.
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oh yes great example! (have one and am a total fan)
by the logic that our sport has a lot more variables that effectively means there's a lot more scope for larger improvement if you can improve them all ;)
 
Also ultimately with cycling the main componants are the same in the track angles, materials, distance of the oval etc I appreciate that there will be small differences in nearness of crowd etc but ultimately they are a standard. Now take eventing and none of the basic things in place are standard. If we went out and jumped the same SJing course, same xc and did the dressage on the same going then its easier to start adjusting the marginal gains.
 
charlie8879 said:
I dont often post, but that was a truly fascinating and makes so much sense, thanks so much for sharing.
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no worries, I think there's a lot we can pick up and apply to equestrianism from other sports.

Another fave technique I like is visualisation. I watched a docu' about a gymnastics instructor who got all his pupils to sit and visualise a new movement rather than try to piece it together bit by bit. It is scientific fact that the brain cannot differentiate between a real and an imagined experience. After visualising doing the movement perfectly, he would then get them to go straight into it.

I try to visualise the most perfect outcome of a dressage test, it's amazing how when you start to run through it in your mind all your usual faults/bad habits also sneak into the visualisation!
 
Mike007 said:
Cant say I really buy into this at all . Hang on ,if you improve everything you do by 1% then you improve by............1% . Weighing your self down with a whole load of what must ultimately be obsessive crap is not my idea of a positive training programme. Hang on I dont have my usual pillow so my performance is going to fall. This is the counter side to the argument. Start believing that all this stuff is what makes it happen ,then when real life +++++ it up you have already put yourself into a loosing frame of mind.The trick is to figure out what really matters and to disregard the Bull ,regardless of how many people around you believe it.There is a world of difference between fine tuning ones performance , and saddling oneself with a load of additional things to be anxious about.
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Interesting point,and I see where you are coming from re: placing too much emphasis on minor things, but if you can control all the controllables, but fail on one then to me the fact that I had all the others sorted would still give me confidence as they only make a difference when done collectively, so in the same vein missing out just one won't de-rail you that badly....
 
meardsall_millie said:
At the lower levels it is entirely possible to be pretty successful with a more relaxed approach and the gains can be exponential when considering 'input vs. outputs'. As you move up the ranks the margin for error reduces, other competitors and their horses are so much better, and that's when the little things really start to count.
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but as an am' rider if you took this approach and did this 'marginal gains' thing then wouldn't you stand out head and shoulders above everyone else with a more relaxed approach?...
 
LEC said:
Also ultimately with cycling the main componants are the same in the track angles, materials, distance of the oval etc I appreciate that there will be small differences in nearness of crowd etc but ultimately they are a standard. Now take eventing and none of the basic things in place are standard. If we went out and jumped the same SJing course, same xc and did the dressage on the same going then its easier to start adjusting the marginal gains.
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when applying it to equestrianism I think I'm probably thinking along the lines of controlling things such as...

making sure you have the best fitting tack you can afford to make the horse's movement as good as possible
making sure feet are shod, well with regular assessment
working on niggly little areas of tension in flat work eg trying to eliminate a fleeting moment of tension in a transition
mocking up xc fences and striding at home
being fastidious about manners your horse's behaviour
purposely schooling in the rain to make sure than mid comp if it tips down your horse doesn't tuck behind the bit curl up and pay more attention to the rain than you

things such as that...
 
Chloe_GHE said:
but as an am' rider if you took this approach and did this 'marginal gains' thing then wouldn't you stand out head and shoulders above everyone else with a more relaxed approach?...
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I think there are still too many variables with horses and riders at the lower levels to get all the bases covered. I think it's entirely possible to get better (than lots of other people) but head and shoulders above? No, not really.
 
If you're bored enough Chloe here's what I wrote a couple of months ago. It was a Tarrsteps thread as it turned out ;)

OK. I've now thought about this further whilst mucking out (when most of my thinking happens!) and have thought about it in relation to the sport in general (by sport I mean the three Olympic disciplines) and more specifically the higher end of the sport.

I have given a lot of thought over the past few months to the stratospheric advances made by the Team GB cyclists and, to a lesser extent, rowers. They have very strong management and a lot of money invested into technological developments. Obviously those are sports where success is measured in hundredths of a second and where results are a lot less subjective (dressage) and are intrinsically fewer variables. For a start their bikes/boats don't have brains and if they inconveniently break just before a major competition can be easily replaced or fixed. I still think that there is a lot that our sport could learn from looking at the work done by Dave Brailsford and Jurgen Grobler in terms of team management and training. I think that eventing has an equal in Yogi, but change is afoot and the forthcoming appointment of his assistant will prove crucial to the development of our major championship success. Do dressage and show-jumping have anyone equivalent?

The technique of 'aggregation of marginal improvements' employed by GB cycling is an interesting one. Can it be employed in a sport where it's not all down to being the fastest on the day? In a way dressage might be the easiest place to employ this. When the scores are so high at the top and tenths of a percentage point might mean the difference between a medal or not then being, for example, able to produce a pirouette worthy of an 8 or a 9, consistently, every time out could nail it. So if you could just focus on that movement and improve it by a small amount, but a consistent amount, that 'might' be enough to nail a medal. I guess we have set off down the marginal improvement road to an extent by secretly using the Fairfax girth at these Games. I wonder though how many more technological advances there are to be found in our sport which inherently replies on one of the most technologically unsound creations ever - the horse.

And if these improvements might be enough to win at the top level are they something that low-level amateurs like myself might be able to employ to my benefit?
 
Chloe_GHE said:
Interesting point,and I see where you are coming from re: placing too much emphasis on minor things, but if you can control all the controllables, but fail on one then to me the fact that I had all the others sorted would still give me confidence as they only make a difference when done collectively, so in the same vein missing out just one won't de-rail you that badly....
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Perhaps I am surrounded by rather dumb riders ... No actualy I would say that prettywell all of them are rather gifted (makes me jelous:mad::D).The trouble is that time after time I watch them trip up because they have put too much store by "the plan". Cant get a stud to go in , starts to fret and get anxious ,then rides like ****. Deadly enemy in same class, makes you feel inadequate (god alone knows why cos you are so much better than that cow)you ride like ****. In war they say ,the first casulty is the plan. Its not just phsical core strength,but mental core strength.
 
Mike007 said:
Perhaps I am surrounded by rather dumb riders ... No actualy I would say that prettywell all of them are rather gifted (makes me jelous:mad::D).The trouble is that time after time I watch them trip up because they have put too much store by "the plan". Cant get a stud to go in , starts to fret and get anxious ,then rides like ****. Deadly enemy in same class, makes you feel inadequate (god alone knows why cos you are so much better than that cow)you ride like ****. In war they say ,the first casulty is the plan. Its not just phsical core strength,but mental core strength.
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oh totally know that feeling, something trivial can suddenly throw you off, and then you begin on a spiral of self destruction. I try to combat that by saying to myself I'm only competing against my last result, and I also find that mantra 'you have to beat the course before you beat the competition' helpful, it takes your focus off outside influences and back onto the competition in hand.
 
Mike007 said:
Perhaps I am surrounded by rather dumb riders ... No actualy I would say that prettywell all of them are rather gifted (makes me jelous:mad::D).The trouble is that time after time I watch them trip up because they have put too much store by "the plan". Cant get a stud to go in , starts to fret and get anxious ,then rides like ****. Deadly enemy in same class, makes you feel inadequate (god alone knows why cos you are so much better than that cow)you ride like ****. In war they say ,the first casulty is the plan. Its not just phsical core strength,but mental core strength.
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I'm sure the cycling team have this covered. They wouldn't be trying to get the athlete's nutrition 1% better than everyone else's without having put serious effort into controlling their psychological approach to the competition. The marginal improvements only start to count when everything else is equal and if you let small things like you've mentioned above affect your mental approach then you're not yet at the stage of being equal. It's all in the plan.
 
Chloe_GHE said:
interesting stuff, good ol' Tarrsteps for stirring up the grey matter ;)
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As someone with more than a passing interest in competitive cycling I find it utterly fascinating. I particularly like the idea of Chris Boardman and a lab full of what they call their 'secret squirrels' beavering away to find places where they might make minuscule improvements. Although perhaps the picture in my mind's eye of actual squirrels in lab coats is taking it a bit far... :p
 
Gamebird said:
As someone with more than a passing interest in competitive cycling I find it utterly fascinating. I particularly like the idea of Chris Boardman and a lab full of what they call their 'secret squirrels' beavering away to find places where they might make minuscule improvements. Although perhaps the picture in my mind's eye of actual squirrels in lab coats is taking it a bit far... :p
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yes 'cross pollination' of ideas from a seemingly obscure source is riveting, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who instantly envisaged actual squirrels ;)

how long till we see horses going xc wearing that kinesiology tape footballers wear?... we've already got horse recovery suits.....
 
Gamebird said:
a lab full of what they call their 'secret squirrels' beavering away to find places where they might make minuscule improvements. Although perhaps the picture in my mind's eye of actual squirrels in lab coats is taking it a bit far... :p
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Have you been taking your tablets game bird:D:D:D.Yes this is an interesting subject and one close to my heart. Darn you GB I am now visualising squirrels.:eek:
 
Mike007 said:
Cant say I really buy into this at all . Hang on ,if you improve everything you do by 1% then you improve by............1% . Weighing your self down with a whole load of what must ultimately be obsessive crap is not my idea of a positive training programme. Hang on I dont have my usual pillow so my performance is going to fall. This is the counter side to the argument. Start believing that all this stuff is what makes it happen ,then when real life +++++ it up you have already put yourself into a loosing frame of mind.The trick is to figure out what really matters and to disregard the Bull ,regardless of how many people around you believe it.There is a world of difference between fine tuning ones performance , and saddling oneself with a load of additional things to be anxious about.
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I went to a talk from an Olympic coach - who has coached in different sports, and he takes the approach that Mike uses above - they analyse the sport and work out where to put the most effort into improving, long distance swimming it was the final 400m, triathlon the change overs etc - so look at your sport and see where the competition is won or lost. To do that it might be best done by someone from outside the sport with an open mind - as the result might not be what you think.
 
Interesting post! And yes I entirely agree with this perspective; particularly 'controlling the controllables'. On the flip side of this - how many people do you see worrying about comparing themselves with everyone else in the warm-up, or who's in the dressage arena before them for example - no point worrying about what we CAN'T control!!

Yes, a horse is completely different to a bike (it has a brain for one thing!) - therefore equestrian disciplines will always be less predictable than many other sports - and it's unrealistic to expect to control everything - But it does seem a logical approach to me to break down a future performance down into much smaller chunks, and by improving even half of those things you're setting yourself up for a better result...

OP: Interesting that you visualise your performance; there's a lot of research on this - in that the more life-like you can make the image ('feel' the movement; see yourself performing vividly; in real-time etc), the stronger those neural pathways become that light up when you actually perform the movement. As you say - must all be positive though!
 
Thats was a interesting post Chloe -thank you. I have to admit I am not a huge fan of cycling, but the thinking and the philosophy in the coaching which has obviously been applied is applicable to pretty much every avenue of life where there is a competitive context. Whilst reading through the posts, it felt like I was back in my business coach's office - pretty much eveything discusssed on this thread is applicable.

For example, visualising a dressage test - I have been taught to do something pretty similar with what are known as IVVM statements, or I Am statements. Said regularly, with the successful outcome visualised, and you can convincen yourself to do anything. Its the same with the 1% improvements - as they say every little helps. Its helped me no end with some very difficult situations. To be fair if I was going to get competitive again with dressage, or even have a go at eventing Bonnie (need to get over fear of coloured poles first and buy a pair of huge brave pants), I would most certainly be using the techniques that I have been taught and transferring them over to riding. As my business coach says to me - 'Coaching, its not just for sports' and how true that is.

If you can control the controllables, you will eventually have control of most of the situation, and I think that applies to most things, including equestrian sport.
 
Chloe_GHE said:
when applying it to equestrianism I think I'm probably thinking along the lines of controlling things such as...

making sure you have the best fitting tack you can afford to make the horse's movement as good as possible
making sure feet are shod, well with regular assessment
working on niggly little areas of tension in flat work eg trying to eliminate a fleeting moment of tension in a transition
mocking up xc fences and striding at home
being fastidious about manners your horse's behaviour
purposely schooling in the rain to make sure than mid comp if it tips down your horse doesn't tuck behind the bit curl up and pay more attention to the rain than you

things such as that...
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But this is good horsemanship! It's nothing new. It's not even a secret. Why would people NOT do these things? Pros do.

If people choose not to or can't, then that is all well and good but aggregate results will reflect that.

It is like ticking things off a list - the more things you tick off, the greater your chances of success. And doing a few things off the chart can make up for weaker areas, at least in the short term. For example, if you buy a very experienced horse that suits your style and can do the job you want with its eyes closed, then you will probably still stay reasonably competitive if other areas are not up to scratch. But if you have that horse and, say, don't do what it needs to stay sound, then you've got nuthin'
 
Just a note on visualisation (oddly, I wrote a short article on this very subject recently) it is not AS effective as real practice but it's close. The best results come from a combination of the two.

It also relies heavily on knowledge. In order to visualise an ideal result you need to know what that is, not just in general terms - a clear round, say - but in what you need to do to get that done.
 
Agree with Tarrsteps here. In many respects in equestrian sports we have already been very much aware of the marginal gains and capitalizing on them. I don't think its really anything exciting or new, sorry!
 
I think it is more about controlling your inner chimp! Another cycling thing.

I have been to a talk ages ago about the controlling the controlables which does of course make utter sense. You cannot control the uncontrolables - i.e. the weather at Tweasledown (which I know I have just spelt wrongly for some weird reason).

Another one of my favourite sports is F1 and can remember on the visualisation thing, one of the drivers who could visualise driving round Monaco describing what he was doing and he ended up more or less with the same time as he did in qualifying, so his visualisation was down to the tenth of a second as to what he was doing. I am not sure my brain works in the visualisation way or at least not without training.
 
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