It wasn't laminitis!

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Millysmum

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Thank goodness. Digital pulse, temperature and heartbeat all normal. Vet
was happy with his stride and how he stood.

Have had bad cases of laminitis in the past and the Laminitis Clinic were
very helpful with advice. One horse had a hoof abscess which caused
laminitis in the other hoof. Their frog supports were brilliant.

I am a bit surprised by all the comments about Happy Hoof.

Thanks to all who posted for your comments. Interesting to hear what others think as my horses are not at a livery yard.
 
Low grade laminitis resulting only in sole sensitivity (usually only noticed by owners of barefoot horses) does not give raised pulses, temperature, heartbeat or alteration in stride or standing on flat ground. Lots of vets don't even believe in it, which is bizarre.

If your vet says it's not laminitis, then what does he say it is?
 
Indeed, low grade laminitis, or more correctly; equine digital elastosis, can be the precurser to more serious inflammation of the laminae or laminitis. Early signs are a slight heel first landing as the horse avoids discomfort at breakover at the toe or 'footiness' over uneven ground. This is due to a reduction in health to the internal arch apparatus which alters proprioception and blood flow in the sole. BUT the heel first landing causes further distortion of the lateral catilages which due to the ongoing elastosis no longer want to return to their original shape...which puts more pressure on the lamella in the toe as the pedal bone moves backwards ever so slightly with upward movement of the cartilages..which increase discomfort...which causes more heel first landings and so on. I would recommend you seek advice from a DAEP as they are trained to recognise subtle signs of changes in the foot which would allow for proactive changes in the horses environment to allow for healing to take place. For more info about elastosis and laminitis there is an interesting artice by KC LaPierre: http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/Text_Files/EDE_Paper_Sept_2010.pdf

To locate a DAEP: http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/iaep/locate.html#UK

Beccy
 
Beccy please do not take offence at what I am about to write, but I do think it is necessary to point out that "Equine Digital Elastosis" is a coin termed by K C la Pierre (founder of Equine Podiatry) and not recognised by the veterinary profession although it sounds very medical. K C does have a bit of a habit of coining scientific sounding terms and some vets and farriers can be very irritated by them, so people need to be careful before using this term with any confidence around horsecare professionals.

It is also probable that the OP's horse does not have any of the stuff you have described going on with heel first landings and lateral cartilage misplacement. If the horse does have low grade laminitis then its symptoms were simply that standing on a frozen point of ground was sore at that point where the sole made contact. What she needs to work out is why, and the answer to that will probably be diet, as it usually is. Unfortunately, having come to the conclusion that the horse is not laminitic at all, it is difficult to see what the vet might recommend except shoes.
 
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No offense taken...just an opinion... If people and/or professionals are irritated by KC 's stuff then its for them to deal with. This new info brought into the equine world may not yet have been accepted by the entire veterinary world but it has made many sit up and take notice...but most importantly, many horses and their owners have already benefitted from the development of these new sciences. They take time to filter through but if they do no harm and only provide more insight then the progress is good.
 
cptrayes said:
Beccy please do not take offence at what I am about to write, but I do think it is necessary to point out that "Equine Digital Elastosis" is a coin termed by K C la Pierre (founder of Equine Podiatry) and not recognised by the veterinary profession although it sounds very medical.
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I went off to google it as I'd never heard of it and came up with Equine Podiatry information.

Doh! Forgot the linkl http://www.appliedequinepodiatry.org/Text_Files/EDE_Paper_Sept_2010.pdf

I know of many horses who have benefitted from EP care.
 
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brucea said:
Actually that is really an arrogant and unhelpful stance to take.
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I was concerned about that reply myself, so I googled what K C la Pierre is saying lately on the EP website and found this on the front page:

"I have gone so far as to develop theories that support the science of Energetics. Energetics defines a science that goes beyond simple bio-mechanics, and embraces physiology as a component of the whole."

It should be noted that Energetics is also the trademarked brand name of KC's hoofcare products, so there is confusion between the commercial operation and the science which is concerning. That is also the whole statement, I have not left out anything that actually makes it make any sense.

To be honest, my first thought when I read the paragraph was "David Icke".

There are at least two problems with this current direction of US based EP:

1. it gives valuable ammunition to the many folk who think that people who have unshod horses are unhinged. It makes it much easier for them to rubbish factual things that we are saying, like barefoot rehabilitation can resolve the issues of horses with foot lameness that cannot be cured by conventional veterinary medecine and farriery.

2. Blinding people with "science", using big words to describe simple things, makes ordinary folk scared of what is actually a very simple thing in the vast majority of cases - allowing your horse to grow the foot he wants to grow, unrestricted by a shoe.

Lets go back to the OP. I'm guessing that her vet has told her that her horse bruised his soles on the frozen ground, and that his only solution to that is shoes. If she was to tell this vet, who does not even believe in sole sensitivity from an incorrect diet (in this case probably too much frosted, therefore high-sugar, grass) that the horse has "equine digital elastosis" he will laugh so hard he will find it difficult to walk back to his car and drive away to tell his colleagues all about "those idiot barefoot evangelists!".

OP, I really sympathise, it is so difficult for you, because your vet has given you the all clear and it would be easiest to accept his advice. But I and others believe that you have been given a warning sign - sensitive soles. If I saw one of my barefooters feeling the ruts like your horse, I'd have him off the grass like a rat up a drainpipe. We have another month of heavy frost to come, please be hyper aware of any change in his sensitivity. None of us want to see you post "the vet was wrong, it was laminitis after all" while your horse rocks from one foot to the other to relieve the pain of an acute laminitic attack.
 
There are also problems with the term 'laminitis'. Some vets will only diagnose when they have x-ray evidence of 'rotation' and are disinclined to agree with the condition existing on a spectrum.

My own old horse was misdiagnosed with sprains for years, in fact she had LGL. When we treated her as a laminitic she never got another 'sprain'.

Another horse (now sound) was lame for months. No laminitis apparently. But did have laminitic event lines and a hugely stretched white line (and on x-ray a ski tip pedal bone). When managed as a laminitic, oddly it came sound.

I sincerely hope your horse hasn't had laminitis and never gets it, but don't put your guard down just on someone else's say so, no matter who they are.
 
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KC La Pierre has got a lot of front! Claiming he has discovered this new condition... other hoof care experts have been talking about it for years. Why do people always seek to reinvent the wheel? Nothing to do with making money and feeding egos of course...
 
many folk who think that people who have unshod horses are unhinged
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Well, we are...really ;) Anyone who would question conventional. received wisdom the way we do must be unhinged :)

Having 2 laminitics, the whole concept of LGL not existing as a condition is simply laughable. Too much simple observable evidence to be otherwise.
 
I find it's a bit like saying it's not possible to have toothache unless you need root canal work. The disease is so obviously a continuous line between a very mild inflammation and shedding of the hoof. No vet would dispute the line from acute laminitis up to shedding the hoof, so why can't they see the other half of the line from acute laminitis down to a very mild inflammation?
 
So interesting to read the previous comments.
This is the very reason why I decided when I became a barefoot farrier after 35 years of shoeing not to ally myself with any particular , method, system, sect, cult, teaching, whatever.
I am sure there is good in most of the approaches to barefoot care, but in the professional years I have been around horses I have also come across so much arrogance, and it is this arrogance that will lead to horses suffering.
There seems to be a plethora of people who wish to have something named after them, believe me I know, in Farriery I have had my share of it!
When I look at some of the work that is coming out of universities from places like Australia and the USA that are based on advancing the well being of the animal and not on wanting to start a new system or whatever, then for me this is where I would, and did chose to go for help and information.
I would implore anyone who is looking for help on any site to remember the following:
1) In a lot of circumstances you can be desperate, upset, worried and not knowing (could be all three) therefore easy to be mislead or confused.
2) If there is a possibility that the motive to help my be due to another agenda, then beware!
The hundreds of laminitics I have worked on from just having a little heat in one foot, to P3 coming through the bottom of the foot, have all belonged to owners that at some time would have believed me if I told them that you needed to put a bell in the corner of the stable and mustard seeds in one ear. which by the way Equtonics Sinapi genus
 
I agree with others who say don't let your guard down op.

I too think we should learn from all the 'schools' we can and I do have a problem with labels tbh, it often just adds to the confusion that reigns and takes a lot of sorting out what is actually meant by some new terms. Simple descriptions are best imo rather than trying to tease out some symptoms of a process or condition and give it a name and call it a new discovery. We have names for metabolic conditions it's the detail of the process that isn't fully understood...

Laminitis in my understanding is, as has been pointed out, a continuum and is also imo inextricably linked with dietary/toxic issues. My worry is that people try to deny this and give concussion etc. as lone causes and don't pay attention to diet as well.
 
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My old lady was diagnosed with chronic LGL this summer. My vets are really good, and took the approach of weight and feed first and then looking at environmental factors afterwards. Through a combination of diet change, environmental change (bare, hard paddock to soft stable) and NSAID's when needed, Mels is now on the road to recovery. She has lost a lot of weight, is sounder than I have seen her in 18 months (up until the wet and mud flared her spavins again anyway!) and her feet look great.

The vet did say to put heartbars on her, but between us, my farrier and I decided to try a really hard trim, and monitor her - the trim did the trick and we managed to keep her out of shoes.

Op, even if you dont think there is anything you can do with your horses diet, and your vet is adamant that he isnt laminitic, dont take your eye off the ball... I put Melody on AlphaBute and Laminitis Prone and Im certain they have both helped (the Laminitis Prone especially) immesurably.
 
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