It's all going wrong. A WWYD ....

[Wilbur_Force]

My 14 year old dressage horse has annular ligament desimitis in both hind legs and requires surgery at Newmarket. Does anyone have experience of this? One leg is worse than the other and the ligament in that leg needs cutting, whereas in the other leg it needs fraying. My poor horse has also been diagnosed with cushings and is currently suffering with keratitis and a swollen sheath. I feel so sorry for him! At the moment he's not on meds for the cushings.

My insurance may not cover the hind leg operations due to exclusions, so the question I'm asking is would you go ahead with the surgery, given all the other ailments?

He has also had a previous eye operation under GA to remove a squamous cell carcinoma from the third eyelid!

I just want to do what is best for the horse and I'm hoping that he could be retired.

Thoughts most welcome!

 

[AmyMay]

Can he be retired without the surgery?

 

[meesha]

Sorry no help with the ailments as I have no experience of them, but ... Can he be retired without the surgery - would he be comfortable enough to mooch around the field ? if so I would probably not operate and give him as many years retirement as he is comfortable with.

My retired mare has sidebone - she is by no means sound but gets around ok - I have not carried on insuring her as I wouldn't put her through any major operation - saying that though she is nearly 20 (and has been retired for about 8 years).

It is personal choice and only you know how your horse (and you) will cope.

....cross posted with amymay........

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Amymay and meesha, he's a good 6/10ths lame in trot and lame in walk but not as bad. Surgery is the only option as far as actual treatment is concerned. I guess I need a frank discussion with the vet to explore other options. This horse is a nightmare as he's susceptible to loose watery dropping as he had a worm burden as a youngster before I bought him. He's basically an insurance write off I suppose. I'm presuming that cushings meds would sort a couple of the other issues out?

 

[Clodagh]

My boss's showjumper had this and came back sound enough to hack and do low level dressage. She has since been lame with various other problems and has now had pretty well 4 out of the last 5 years on box or paddock rest.
So, I personally wouldn't but I am pretty 'hard'. I would try retirement without it and see, if it won't make any difference if you have the op now or in 6 months then can you try without it first? Or is he hopping lame?

 

[be positive]

A friend had a pony with one hind annular ligament damaged, not sure exactly how badly, he was not going for surgery due to age and other issues, she followed vets advice and box rested, restricted turnout etc, he was certainly sound enough after several months to be kept as a pet, possibly light hack but was pts about a year later due to another issue totally unrelated.
If you are not expecting him to come back to work and happy to keep him retired letting nature take it's course, time and rest can be the best option.

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Lots to think about. I'd love to keep riding this horse, but my heart tells me that even if the insurance do cover it, is it morally the right thing to do? Coming back to soundness after both hind legs have been done is a big ask I would have thought? The vet has suggested leaving the one leg, but surely that leg will then be compromised even more from the compensating for the other one?! He's already had a GA for the eye operation and I feel very guilty about considering putting him through another.

He's not hopping lame, certainly sore in trot. He's not a good patient either and I made his paddock smaller but he fence walked because he couldn't go up the field, despite his friends being all around him next door!

 

[meesha]

my mare is not always sound at walk - definitely not at trot and her canter is a contender for ministry of silly walks !! but.... her sidebone is causing mechanical lameness as it is soooo large and bute doesn't make any difference. What I am trying to say is that for me it wouldn't matter how lame he was as long as he could get around - it is more the pain issue - lots of people get around with limps and adjust to it but if you have to bute up to the eyeballs to make him comfortable I would reconsider...

I would chuck out for winter - make sure you can find somewhere there is 24/7 good turnout (I know easier said than done) or even put him on retirement livery for the winter then come spring review.....

Just to say - for me personally it was a massive relief once I decided to retire her - no more battling to get her sound - I then bought another to ride but have my own land so double livery costs were not an issue.

Good luck.

 

[AmyMay]

Amymay and meesha, he's a good 6/10ths lame in trot and lame in walk but not as bad. Surgery is the only option as far as actual treatment is concerned. I guess I need a frank discussion with the vet to explore other options. This horse is a nightmare as he's susceptible to loose watery dropping as he had a worm burden as a youngster before I bought him. He's basically an insurance write off I suppose. I'm presuming that cushings meds would sort a couple of the other issues out?

So being totally practical about it - if your intention is to retire him (with the surgery costs on top), why not pts?

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Meesha, there are a few places local to me that I could let him live out.

Amymay, PTS is a high contender on the list. I can't justify spending £000's for him to not come right. He has so many other issues that the odds are not in our favour.

People on our yard will think I'm being very harsh, but my options are very limited.

 

[meesha]

I think if you can consider pts then that may be your best option - I need a companion so my mare serves another purpose and is very very hardy and has no other issues but if she gets other issues I will not go down major investigation route (would obviously get vet out in first instance and try bute etc) - when the time comes that she is not happy in herself and comfortable I will have to say goodbye.... even the thought of it is hard but it would not be fair to put her through loads of test/treatments when she will always have the underlying issue..

It is easy to say ignore other people but you have to do what is best. A small white lie of pts on vets advise or even say she came down with colic and had to be pts ...... it is no-one elses business what you do and you need to make it as easy for you as possible if you go down that route.

 

[AmyMay]

People on our yard will think I'm being very harsh, but my options are very limited.

No - simply practical and sensible.

 

[Wilbur_Force]

No - simply practical and sensible.

Yes, it's still hard though. I am most likely having a brain operation in the new year too, so that is influencing my decision.

 

[AmyMay]

Yes, it's still hard though. I am most likely having a brain operation in the new year too, so that is influencing my decision.

It's the hardest thing ever. But you have to weigh it all up. His issues are more than just his legs. Your medical issues as well. All these things have to inform your decision.

As for what other people think - simply don't tell them what your planning (regardless of what it is). And if you do decide to pts keep it to yourself - people always think they know better than you, and always, always judge.

Good luck. I know what it's like and it's never easy xx

 

[meesha]

you have to put yourself first - the 2 options to me sound like
1. turnout see if he comes good
2. pts

I would have a frank discussion with the vet regarding field rest/retirement and then choose whichever option you find easiest for you at the moment - if you cant face pts at the minute then turnaway until you are well enough but if you are going to pts that may take a huge amount of pressure off you during your recovery.

Hope the op goes well OP x

 

[Maesfen]

Meesha, there are a few places local to me that I could let him live out.

Amymay, PTS is a high contender on the list. I can't justify spending £000's for him to not come right. He has so many other issues that the odds are not in our favour.

People on our yard will think I'm being very harsh, but my options are very limited.

Put aside the money if the insurance don't pay up and focus on his quality of life instead (for a bit!) Would he have a quality life if he had the op or would he be totally miserable and not cope with the aftercare/box rest and so on. Is he a retirement contender or would he be totally miserable without a job to do (it's more common than you think with some horses) Can you afford to replace him with a riding model and still keep him well?

All things to consider and TBTH, with a gelding, I know exactly what I would do so I don't think you're harsh at all, just being totally realistic and it's nobody's decision but your own; as long as you are happy then you've made the right one, don't let anyone tell you differently.

ETA, just seen about your own op' in which case I know I wouldn't have to think twice because you don't need the worry about him at a time like that; I'm sorry.

 

[CBAnglo]

My 14 yr old TB had a double neurectomy (PSD) and had a year off (9 months box rest and 3 months field rest) before slowly coming back into work. He was lunged for a good 2 months (he also had KS surgery and injections into the SI joint). I then managed to get on, did 6 weeks of walking with 2 weeks of 5 mins of trot and he was kicked in the field and off for 6 weeks. I am now starting all over again with him (just back to 5 mins of trot).

It was a lot to put him through, and given the choice again I would have just let him have the summer without the surgery and pts. I was too selfish at the time and he seemed so bright in himself throughout the whole year of rehab and just happy to be there (I thought he would go mental on box rest but he surprisingly loved all of the attention). Its just that every little set back means we have to start back at the beginning and that is tough on a horse that is now rising 15 with lots of other problems that need careful management. Its a hard decision to make, and since I have two others I didnt have to ride him; if he were my only riding horse I might have made a different decision at the time (or more likely just bought another horse!)

 

[applecart14]

Its a hard one. With all you say is wrong with your horse it sounds like he might need to be pts but then my horse has moderate to severe bone spavin in both hocks, severe arthritis in both coffin joints, supsensory ligament branch injury and possible sacroilliac disease and yet despite all this was (until another injury) happily bouncing around show jumping tracks and loving the jumping. And I am hoping we can be back jumping tracks by the end of November.

So what I am saying is don't give up hope, ask the vet what he thinks is a likely prognosis following the operation. Sometimes what is down on paper isn't as bad as you think.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Tbh unless the surgery will make him sound to be ridden I wouldnt do it, I would turn him away and see what happens, I dont think having him pts is harsh if he cant cope with just being a field ornament what choice do you have, its got nothing to do with the other liveries what you decide, I wish you luck with your brain operation x

 

[Wilbur_Force]

Thank you all for your kind words. I'm going to speak to the vet and ask for the warts and all version! The prognosis is good with surgery because its primary and no tendons are involved. If he didn't have so many other issues I wouldn't hesitate, but he's not a great candidate for box rest as he already kicks the door off its hinges!

 

[Warrior_princess]

Hiya. I just wanted to share my experience of annular ligament issues. My 8year old mare went into Leahurst on 22nd July this year and on the 26th she had both her annular ligaments cut. She returned home on the 29th july and seemed to be making good progress. However on the 5th august i found her unable to walk on one hind leg and she was rushed back to leahurst fighting for her life with an infection of her tendon sheath. She was taken back into surgery to have her leg flushed out and put on an aggressive course of antibiotics for 4 weeks. Luckily after 12 days she returned home in good health. She is still currently on box rest and although she is only 2/10 lame in trot my vet is still unsure if she will ever come 100% sound again. My mare doesnt cope with box rest and the walking out in hand has been extremely difficult and dangerous. I was luckily insured but my vet fees only covered 5k so that mainly went on the main operation but i had an additional 6.5k to pay for the treatment for the infection. Plus all the costs of follow up vet visits and bedding and hay for box rest. Its cost a small fortune. I have a vet visit next week for another check up and will hopefully know then what the outcome of it all is going to be.
I wouldnt like to say whether the operation would be a success for your horse although the prognosis of this type of operation usually does have a good outcome but as you have explained, your horse has other issues. I will be honest and if i knew then what i know now,i wouldnt have sent my mare to have the surgery. Its been one heartbreaking disaster after another for us. Speak to your vet and see what they say. Personally if i was in your posistion i would maybe try box rest and bute if you dont feel that surgery would be an option given the cost if your insurance doesnt pay out. Im sorry i cant be much help.
please keep this post updated with how you get on xx

 

[Wilbur_Force]

W_P, thank you for your frank and candid response. I have huge reservations about this operation and if he does have it done it will only be the 1 leg. He's sound on the other one! I know that he'll be a pain on box rest and I already lead him to the field in a chifney because he's strong. If I'm insured I think I'm going to give it a go and see what happens.

His eye problem is viral keratitis and he had a full GA to remove the third eyelid from the other one a couple of years ago. The vet says the keratitis is down to stress and that's before the op!

I have to admit that the rehab has me very worried. He boots the door for his dinner so I am anticipating ASBO behaviour.

Only time will tell I suppose. Fingers crossed your girl comes right. Sounds like she's been through a lot x