Its difficult to know what to do, is PTS too extreme?

amymay said:
And yet you say your plan was to sell him, and bring on a youngster?

Curious.

Good luck - hope you manage to resolve the situation (which I suspect is medical, not mental).
Click to expand...
I don't mean to sell him to get rid of him, I just enjoy working away with young ponies, as I enjoy their education and their development, handling, feeding, education, not very much riding these days. I usually get others to do much of the more advanced schooling.
I have plenty of time to spend on them, the hacking at this yard is not great, and I don't like "going round in circles" , the horse would benefit from a more busy life, competing and so on, I only got him by accident [these things happen], and it seems we are always struggling, though I am very fond of him.
I have asked experienced people including vets about his health, but even in the field, he is always alert, I can be a mile away, working on hedge or something, and he gallops over to see what I am up to, if I open the big stable doors,he has his head up, and gallops down if I ask him to, so no indication of pain, more of insecurity. He will generally follow anywhere, but is less happy if I am alongside or behind him.
He once trotted round me as though I had him on a lunge, I thought it was bizarre, but can do join-up, following me, till he gets distracted by a tuft of grass.
 
Last edited:
I don't mean to sell him to get rid of him, I just enjoy working away with young ponies, as I enjoy their education and their development, handling, feeding, education, not very much riding these days.
Click to expand...

I only find it curious because I wonder how you would cope with the curved balls that youngsters throw, when you are having issues with an older horse which you have had for several years.
 
Could you bring him in very slightly before the other horses, to avoid the crush at the gate, as you say he will not come in last - presumably follows the others who are coming in and gets crowded at the gate? I understand reluctance to accept him living out his days on individual turnout. Or could you turn him out with one other horse that he gets on with? maybe a very non-confrontational one?

In terms of the napping, how is he is you take him for a walk in hand? Maybe try this, then long lining, then riding with someone leading, then on your own? What groundwork do you do? Maybe try some clicker training to relax him and reinforce his trust in people? This could also help with your loading, long term.

Did the vet actually check his back (and the rest of him) and find him pain free?

Is his tack OK? Teeth? I don't know a lot about potential problems after strangles to know of any related pain issues....it was probably pretty stressful though, combined with the moves.

I can understand your instructor's reaction if he was napping, say, down a ditch or into traffic, but the beating is likely to set him back in terms of finding the world outside a scary place - it has reinforced his fears.

Sounds like you have a good relationship with him when he is out in the field. Hope you get to the bottom of his problems the rest of the time.
 
amymay said:
I only find it curious because I wonder how you would cope with the curved balls that youngsters throw, when you are having issues with an older horse which you have had for several years.
Click to expand...
He still behaves like a youngster in some ways, due to various things, he has had more time off than any normal, well bred, well fed youngster.
I generally have steady types, spend a lot of time on groundwork [easily six months], so most are educated to a fairly advanced level, and are voice activated, I have broken five ponies in past five years, all were backed single-handed and bareback, but I send them off for a few weeks or get a good rider in to do basic schooling, this one has always been difficult when any type of pressure is put on him. Even leading in hand at night, meant using a bridle for safety, and a hard hat when conditions were icy, I did fall under him once,and he sidestepped. A spooky boy. His early life is unclear,which is why I would always buy from a breeder, out of a field in future. I have found a breeder of lovely driving type cobs, I know two of the youngsters, I dare not go and see the rest of them!..........
 
Lucyad said:
Could you bring him in very slightly before the other horses, to avoid the crush at the gate, as you say he will not come in last - presumably follows the others who are coming in and gets crowded at the gate? I understand reluctance to accept him living out his days on individual turnout. Or could you turn him out with one other horse that he gets on with? maybe a very non-confrontational one?

In terms of the napping, how is he is you take him for a walk in hand? Maybe try this, then long lining, then riding with someone leading, then on your own? What groundwork do you do? Maybe try some clicker training to relax him and reinforce his trust in people? This could also help with your loading, long term.

Did the vet actually check his back (and the rest of him) and find him pain free?

Is his tack OK? Teeth? I don't know a lot about potential problems after strangles to know of any related pain issues....it was probably pretty stressful though, combined with the moves.

I can understand your instructor's reaction if he was napping, say, down a ditch or into traffic, but the beating is likely to set him back in terms of finding the world outside a scary place - it has reinforced his fears.

Sounds like you have a good relationship with him when he is out in the field. Hope you get to the bottom of his problems the rest of the time.
Click to expand...
Good relationship, because he is not under pressure, he has things under his control, that is how I view it, I am his security blanket, but I want him to "grow up"
I don't think the instructor had any choice, [I don't think he suffered cruelly], it was unfortunate I was not on hand, she had to make sure he would go forward and this is why I don't want to hack him alone until we get over this.
Tack, and back are fine, I will check teeth myself, dilly dreamer lady vet might have missed something, I suppose, but it is all part of his nervy temperament.
Also going to try aromatherapy, I am finding new straws to clutch at every day!
 
I dont think your horse is no where near dangerous enough to even think of PTS I think making that decison is one of the hardest choices you can make. Thats my my opinion.
 
traceyann said:
I dont think your horse is no where near dangerous enough to even think of PTS I think making that decison is one of the hardest choices you can make. Thats my my opinion.
Click to expand...
You are correct, he is no danger to humans, but could kick another horse. He does not want to live on his own, [this would be detrimental to behaviour],
I only want him to be happy, also me to be "rewarded"
 
Is he shod? If so, perhaps you could have his back shoes taken off to minimise any damage he might do which might make you feel a bit better about it all.

To be honest, he doesn't sound really that bad. Maybe he just needs lots of work and leadership.
 
Rueysmum said:
Is he shod? If so, perhaps you could have his back shoes taken off to minimise any damage he might do which might make you feel a bit better about it all.

To be honest, he doesn't sound really that bad. Maybe he just needs lots of work and leadership.
Click to expand...
Yes, he is a wimp, I've been his leader for four years, he has had rather a lot of work already.
No shoes, front or back!
 
please correct me if i am wrong but arent you the poster who has been moving the horse to another yard and someone was going to buy it etc etc, seems like the horse is not happy because as you say he can feel you are not happy, why are you not happy, enjoy you only have one life, live it, unless you cannot afford it, if you are scared to ride, you can still have companionship with your horse without riding, stop worrying and feeling guilty about other people and their horses, if a horse had to be put down that is sad but it happens, it happens in the wild as well, your being unhappy will make him an insecure horse and others will pick on him because they can feel he is insecure so you need to make life better for him by being confident, good luck.
 
horses that nap 9/10 times is because they lack confidence or have a soundness/pain issue, battering is unacceptable, these type of horses need someone who will coax them on by voice/firm leg/changing direction but ending up going the direction they were going in, like leading a child really. i can't stand battering, seen too much of it in my life for too many wrong reasons.
 
Yes, entirely agree, to be honest, my instructor is of the same opinion, she rode him today, he did not nap at the point he did last week,[when he needed correction]!!!!..... she is of same understanding of horse as me, that is why I employ her, but she is more experienced, has a better seat, and he knows she is "the boss", he was better today, ie progessing, but I know he is always going to be "difficult", and to be honest, he really needs another eighteen months to get him back to where he was a year ago..
I was happy to bring him along slowly, and find a good long term home for him, but every "episode" makes it all more and more "long term"
He is as sound as a pound, it is lack of confidence.
The "battering" was more hitting with a schooling whip and leg on until he went forward, not hurting him, he does not understand punishment.
 
Last edited:
Miss L Toe said:
Previously, he has always had exercise every day or turnout never overworked, all steady work with a few jumping lessons and little shows. Gets plenty of hay type forage not much cereal, if any, not often "fresh", really nothing in diet to suggest too much sugar energy. Looks bursting with health. His diet is forage based, minimal cereal [gets a few oats if lacking energy for school work,but, this is not often.
I had lots of problems recently as he was not getting turnout, napping increased day on day, I moved,that really worried him,but at least he is out every day. I can't hack him,he is too nappy at present.
I asked two behaviourists for advice, but they had no suggestions, I am doing my best but he has "this" in him. I am very worried in case he kicks another horse, he really is hurting them even though barefoot. It always seems to happen when they are at a gateway rather than when playing in the top field, here there is running about and so on, but not this severe kick.
Recently the behaviourist took £50 to tell me he is worried, and it might take a year to settle him in, well I knew that,what I wanted was a solution! Also last episode, he had been in his yard for a year, I put that down partly to getting upset cos horses were changing day to day in the field, and his buddy sometimes buddied up with another horse if they were put out at same time.
I will try Ramitidine, but am doubtful, he shows no ulcer symptoms, most people would say he looks just fine.
He is very aware if I am unhappy, so this adds to stress on both sides.
Click to expand...

Can he not have individual turnout next to the others? We have a horse at our yard that became more and more dangerous to the others with his kicking. We turned him out separately and he is so much more happy and chilled out.
 
Miss L Toe said:
Thanks for that thoughtful posting, he kicked the other horse when it was put in to a small paddock, he chased it and belted it, even though he knew the horse, it was more a frenzy than a fun kick, soon after that he tried to reverse in to another horse by backing in and kicking as I was leading him past, both incidents indicated a nervy horse, no pain issues. He had another field incident around the same time, I took the other horse out as it had a small injury [not sure if caused by a kick]
I did get the vet out to see him [asked for a senior partner], he just dismissed any pain/saddle issue, [he felt I was fussing], he has never been lame, I massage him almost daily, and examine him for tight muscles, nothing, no spasms, he always indicates by pointing with his nose where he needs scratched,so is able to communicate on a basic level.
I have worked with hundreds of TB's, but they tend to be extrovert, a few of them [un-genuine ones] retain their poop, but the good ones always crap before race. My boy rarely poops when out on exercise, though he pooped three times and was licking and chewing when animal behaviourist led him out for a long walk [me on board as a passenger].
I realise my first post was minimalist, but I wanted to distil the evidence, now you can see,there are lots of tiny details to mention.
I took him in hand for a short walk today,he kept stopping [napping] and looking for scary things.
Click to expand...

Sounds like dominance behaviour to me. I would not be turning him out with others. Backing up and booting another horse is aggression, not nervousness.
 
Resurrecting this post to let you all know how we have progressed............. it is four months since he moved and he has had one lesson per week with my BHSII who has ridden him, and long reined him, he is a different shape, good bum, more muscular, and more balanced at all paces, as one would expect.
I can't actually ride at the moment as I have an injury.... but I can long rein him. My instructor has really done brilliantly with him, though it has been a struggle at times, and he has thrown several hissy fits when things don't suit him, it is his current nature NOT to be very obliging when doing flatwork, he needs to be kidded along, really he needs a job with a Riding Club person.
Re his temperament and behaviour with other horses, he has settled in nicely, though yet another of his "best friends" is leaving this week, and this will worry him. He is out 24/7 and will get a Fast Fibre feed with Steady Up [magnesium].
Re loading, last month I set up the trailer and did trailer training, [if you recall, I felt it was the association of moving and loading which caused problems], now he knows he gets a little feed of oats, and is fine, though he has not yet travelled anywhere.
Re napping, yes he still does it, not as bad, but it is always his first reaction to any stress, still looking for a confident and competent rider to buy him. grrrrrr........
He seems happy enough, the yard suits him as it has turnout most days of the year, but has no hacking.
 
Last edited:
Well that sounds OK. I hope your injury's not too bad and wasn't naughty horse inflicted! He doesn't sound like a particularly problematic horse, he just has a few things about him that are a bit of a PITA. Needing individual turnout shouldn't be a big deal. The napping is annoying and if it's not improving much maybe he's just not for you. Don't rule out selling or loaning him if he is good at anything that someone might enjoy him for.
 
Flame_ said:
Well that sounds OK. I hope your injury's not too bad and wasn't naughty horse inflicted! He doesn't sound like a particularly problematic horse, he just has a few things about him that are a bit of a PITA. Needing individual turnout shouldn't be a big deal. The napping is annoying and if it's not improving maybe he's just not for you. Don't rule out selling or loaning him if he is good at anything that someone might enjoy him for.
Click to expand...

Yes, I am afraid my leg is terminally unsound, not a horse related injury, in fact no accident, it just went.... fifteen months ago .............arghhhh.
I have tried to sell him, but only one person who was capable of riding him, so far, I have to assess them as he may be well behaved if no pressure on him, but he would get worse very easily.
He is fine now out in the fields, no more frenzied kicking.
He would be a great all rounder for an experienced teenager or light adult.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top