It's January, and fatty's still not losing any weight?

ShadowFlame

ShadowFlame

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Right, question time.

I have a fatty. No two ways about that, he's a 14.3hh heavy cob, weighs around 510kg at the minute according to weight tape. Ideal for him, I would say, is around 470-480. He has an apple bum, big belly, and fat pads behind his shoulder. He's not particularly cresty. The dentist weight scored him at a 4 this time last month.

He's worked most days (not heavily, as he's still very green), he's out in the day, in at night. He's been chaser clipped for winter, and is rarely in anything thicker than a rainsheet. Usually naked at night, has a Fal Domino rug on if it's getting down towards zero. All his hay is double netted / in an elim-a-net, he gets around 7kg per night, it's always gone of a morning. There's still a little grass in his field, not an awful lot (he comes in hungry after 10-12hrs out). He doesn't get hard feed, he gets a couple of handfuls of high fibre nuggets in a Decahedron to keep him amused when the others are eating.

His weight isn't budging. Not even a little bit, and I'm slightly concerned. His clip has partly grown out, because it's currently minus figures he has a 40g turnout on during the day and a 200g stable rug at night (doesn't feel that thick).

Ideas? Carry on as I am and hope this cold weather does its job? Reclip? Leave the half-fluff as it is and whip the rugs off completely? How are you all managing your fatties?

Any advice appreciated :) Thanks!
 
Ha ha... guilty conscience... you could have been talking about me! all that extra exercise I am doing and I am shifting very little weight!
 
It's very hard I don't think you can feed less than that you could soak the hay toget the sugar out and lower the feed value .
I have got 200 kilos off my fatty it took two over too years exercise is key if possible work twice a day and increase the length and do some more intense work I did short bursts of trotting up hill and lots of hill work up steep banks in walk up and down up and down hard work but easy on his legs .
He looks like a different horse now.
 
You could maybe swap some of the hay for oat straw, or for a fibre block (Halleys Feeds do some good ones). Will take longer to eat, but provide less calories?
 
My cob is turned away a the min, so is out 24/7 not clipped and...... nude :eek:

To me he still looks fat, has fat pads behind his sholder and a round belly (although if you stand behind him and look you cannot see his belly sticking out), no apple bum and hardly any crest (I think he was gelded late). Although I have been told by OH, farrier and some friends hes ok.

When I had him in work last winter, he was chasser clipped and out nude unless it rained, snowed or dropped below 0, then I just put a lightweight rug on him. When in at night he was in nude as well, never hurt him and had about 2% - 3% of his weight in hay (about 4 - 5kg). Fed on two hands full of happy hoof (not feeding this any more) just to give his supplements.

I would try reclipping yours, keeping him out nude as much as poss and not ruging in stable or you could use a thin fleece (some times I did this with King if it was really cold)

Hope that helps, I know your pain on trying to keep a fatty's weight down :)
 
I feel your pain! I thought my cob would have lost more weight by now. Everyone is telling me he is a good weight for this time of year, but I don't agree.

Do you have pictures?
 
The only way I managed to get weight off my fatty was by soaking his hay to take everything out of it. He was on box rest though so getting no grass at all not sure if that helped. Did also have a lo cal balancer so he still got the vitamins he needed.
Is hard soaking hay in winter (pony was on boxrest over winter) and quite often would have to drag a frozen net out the water. But it did really make a difference.

I'd probably re-clip as well and rug as little as possible.
 
Well you're giving him around 15lb's of hay (in old money) which is perhaps more than he needs.

Have you thought about giving him half his ration as straw instead??

Your other option could be to have him out 24/7.
 
My girl is 16.1hh and is 484kgs on the weigh bridge, she is spot on. I feed her 15lbs of soaked hay overnight, she is usually turned out for 5 hours every day still muzzled although she hasn't been out this week because of the ice. I work on 1.5% of her body weight, if she gets more then she puts on the pounds.
 
I feel your pain, only difference is this is the first year my boy has been out of work - try keeping the weight off a retired (but not yet veteran) horse is frickin impossible. My vet and farrier say he is at a great weight now but I still want him thinner as he'll go from being good weight to overweight in a matter of days when the grass comes through!

I'd half the hay and make up the rest with straw (this is what i've done this year). Soak the hay as well to remove all sugars etc. If you can i'd say the best thing would be to leave him out 24/7.
 
I feel for you, I have a 13hh companion pony. He's been on strip grazing and a greenguard muzzle on all summer and all winter has been out naked on rough grazing with no hay, no hard feed and walked out in hand several times a week and he's still far too fat
 
Right, just trying to pick out main points here:

GS - I've tried soaking his hay in the past. The only way I can fit it in with work is by putting it to soak when I turn out (about 6.30am), then throwing it in his stable when I get there (5.30pm). Pone wouldn't eat it, he'd barely touched it by the next morning (plus I'm not much a fan of soaking in this weather :o ) I do as much hill work as I can - there's a great one just up the lane. However with the ice, it's off limits at the mo :(

TS - I've thought about it, but we're not supposed to bring our own forage onto the yard. I may try talking to YO about it, but we're not allowed to use straw as bedding either... I've yet to try a fibre block though, are they any good?

PN - You can't see his belly from the back, but if you look at him from the front he looks like he's in foal :o I'm still torn between reclipping or just leaving nekked 24/7... how effective is half-fluff (not sure what else to call it lol!) at keeping them warm?

CG - Mm, I have the same issue. A lot of people keep saying "don't worry, it's winter, it won't hurt him to carry a little extra!". Thing is I know he'll balloon come spring, so I'd rather get the weight off now when it's easier to do. Trying to find some pics now, I seem to be lacking any recent ones that show his weight very well. I'll upload as soon as I find!

AM - Perhaps it is, but I didn't really want him standing round for hours on end with no forage. The 7kg is always polished off when I get there, unless I start triple netting? I'd kill to have him out 24/7, but yard doesn't allow it. See above re: straw.

I appreciate the replies guys, keep them coming. Not trying to shoot any ideas down, just explaining what we've tried and results :)
 
AM - Perhaps it is, but I didn't really want him standing round for hours on end with no forage. The 7kg is always polished off when I get there, unless I start triple netting? I'd kill to have him out 24/7, but yard doesn't allow it. See above re: straw.
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I can absolutely understand the dilema. Hence the suggestion for straw.

And of course remember, you can always split the ration. So a little hay when he first comes in - and then some fed later at around 8.00 - and then final ration at late night checks.
 
I will try speaking to YO about straw, though I'm not sure they'll be on board. There's no straw on the yard whatsoever, and all hay is just packaged into the livery cost. In regards to splitting, yard is around 6 miles from home and we're not allowed on the premises after 9pm. It's times like this I wish I had him in the back garden!
 
ShadowFlame said:
I will try speaking to YO about straw, though I'm not sure they'll be on board. There's no straw on the yard whatsoever, and all hay is just packaged into the livery cost. In regards to splitting, yard is around 6 miles from home and we're not allowed on the premises after 9pm. It's times like this I wish I had him in the back garden!
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I can't see why the YO would have any issue with you supplementing his ration with straw. After all it's your horse to feed as you like. And it won't affect any income they make from you.
 
True, I'll ask next time I see her.

McN - When the schools aren't frozen solid ( :rolleyes: ) he's worked pretty much every day, either schooling, hacking or lunging.

Best pics I can find at the min (haven't got many on this comp).

Apple bum:
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And please excuse the sticky face, it was a one off to keep him still for the farrier:
Bromsgrove-20121223-00505_zps5f482ab6.jpg
 
Straw has actually shown to be higher in sugar than some hay! Obviously depends on your hay. It is also treated at least 4 times with nasty pesticides so Id rather not.

Id soak the hay - can you not ask YO to do it? Or a fellow livery? Offer to muck their horse out on WE in recompense?

Id not reclip but leave out naked. Def lots of interval work, i.e. trot for a min walk 30 secs repeat - and make sure its a spanking trot and an active marching walk etc

Thats a gutter bum not just an apple, id put him at a 5 not a 4 tbh.

This is my fatty - shes nearly 60kgs less than when I bought her back in may :o :(
Shes about a 4 - 4.5 I think now
DSCN0688_zps8c11cfc8.jpg


DSCN0694_zps587d162d.jpg
 
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Luci07 said:
Ha ha... guilty conscience... you could have been talking about me! all that extra exercise I am doing and I am shifting very little weight!
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For the sake of everyone in the Dorking area, can I please butt in and say don't whip your own rugs off? Clip yourself by all means... ;)

OP, I'd remove the rugs completely and give a bib clip.
 
ShadowFlame said:
PN - You can't see his belly from the back, but if you look at him from the front he looks like he's in foal :o I'm still torn between reclipping or just leaving nekked 24/7... how effective is half-fluff (not sure what else to call it lol!) at keeping them warm?
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Didn't hurt King having half-fluff (I totaly understand what you mean about this) Also King looks the same really, really fat from the front and not fat from the back.

If your not working him that hard you could leave him unclipped and nude, on days you work him when stabled just through a wicking type of rug (as thin as you can get away with) on him. I also used to hide treats around Kings stable so he had to look for them, slowed his eatting as he was more botherd about finding the nicer treast than his hay. By treats I mean some fibre cubes or something along thoes lines.

We should start a support group, "slowly going mad about my fatties weight" lol
 
TigerTail said:
Thats a gutter bum not just an apple, id put him at a 5 not a 4 tbh.
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Sorry, but from what I understand about condition scoring, he's not a 5. At a perfect weight he still has a positive crease over his hindquarters, it goes with the breed. He doesn't have any bulges anywhere bar his shoulder. His ribs and pelvis can be felt with pressure. He's fat, but he's not obese. My EDT also confirmed him at a 4.

I'll join the support group!! Going to need it at this rate... I'll definitely be whipping the rugs off, would you stick with a thin fill while it's minus figures out? He was fine out unrugged in this kind of weather last year, but he was completely unclipped... it's the lack of proper fluff that's throwing me.
 
Thanks for the pictures, I would also agree that he is probably nearer a 4.5 than a 4.

Re soaking hay - my horse also didn't eat it to start with. I found I had to introduce it to him slowly. First I just made his hay wet and fed it to him, then I soaked for 10 mins, then a couple of hours, and then could fully soak for 12 hours and he would still eat it.

This is my fatty (excuse the strange muzzle we were trying a new 'homemade' design!) - what would you condition score him at? I think maybe 3.5-4?

IMG00228-20130106-1206-1_zps5460aa8e.jpg
 
The only way I keep my welshies weight 'maintained' throughout the year is on the following routine:
Stabled at night all year round on soaked weighed hay in small holed nets.
In the spring and summer he is kept on the paddock that has been used throughout the winter - i.e. it is bare and he nibbles at stuff as it grows so has to work for it a bit.
In winter I strip graze him daily onto the rest of the field - a set amount each day and no more.
He has no hay in the field at all, even in this snow, he has to dig through the snow for it - mean that I am.
Not rugged at all all year round either in or out of the stable.
Lots of hill work when hacking.
He has a couple of handfuls of chaff twice a day for his supplement but no other treats at all - no veg, mints etc.
It is very hard to maintain these good doers!
 
Interest comments re straw being higher energy from hay as that doesnt match with the research Ive read, unless it refers to soaked hay. Straw is acc to the info Ive read, slightly higher energy than 12 hour soaked hay but a lot lower than unsoaked hay. Oat straw is a little higher than barley or wheat but is more palatable and less likely to cause impaction colic.

In addition it is bulkier, giving a more satisfying longer chew for greedy beasts who bolt their hay.

It shouldnt make up more than 50% of ration as it is low in protein and minerals. For this reason it is also best to feed a general purpose vit and min supplement.

OP Halleys do mail order bags of chopped oat straw which from YO perspective would be no different than feed bag of chaff etc so they shouldnt have any issue with that even if they would with actual bales - worth googling it - if you cant find it on the product pages (it hides sometimes the right page!) go as if you are going to make an order and it appears on the options there with all the info.
 
I know exactly how you feel. Its SO hard to get them to drop weight. I've got a 14.3hh fat cob too!
He's had laminitis so I have to be so careful. Found a Tricklenet (I soak but not in this weather) is the only thing that has helped. It takes him a good three hours to get through a couple of slices of hay.

I weigh his hay too. Vet advised 9kg a day when he was on box rest. When he does go out (on restriced grazing) he only gets 1 slice when he comes in at 3pm then his tricklenet between 8-9pm. Then one slice in the morning before he goes out again. He's also on wood pellets so can't eat his bed either. Hard feed is a v small handful of Safe & Sound in the morning and for Formula 4 Feet in the evening. He only has hard feed in the morning as he's having Bute otherwise I'd cut it out.
My boy isnt in work at the moment either due to the lami.
Would recommend the Tricklenet though. They are expensive (£30) but three at our yard are using them, two of which are serial net destroyers and 6 months in they are all so far intact.

Good luck!
 
ShadowFlame said:
Sorry, but from what I understand about condition scoring, he's not a 5. At a perfect weight he still has a positive crease over his hindquarters, it goes with the breed. He doesn't have any bulges anywhere bar his shoulder. His ribs and pelvis can be felt with pressure. He's fat, but he's not obese. My EDT also confirmed him at a 4.

I'll join the support group!! Going to need it at this rate... I'll definitely be whipping the rugs off, would you stick with a thin fill while it's minus figures out? He was fine out unrugged in this kind of weather last year, but he was completely unclipped... it's the lack of proper fluff that's throwing me.
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Sorry but there is some rose tinted glasses going on here :o and trust me I KNOW how hard it is to look at your own horse objectively. He does have a fatty neck and a big dropped tummy and a rather large derriere. You know this deep down which is why you posted :)

An EDT isn't necessarily a an expert when it comes to weight. As a nation we have also got used to looking at overweight horses due to how we keep them, on dairy grass and stables without enough work, so few people know what a decent weight is now.
 
TigerTail said:
Sorry but there is some rose tinted glasses going on here :o and trust me I KNOW how hard it is to look at your own horse objectively. He does have a fatty neck and a big dropped tummy and a rather large derriere. You know this deep down which is why you posted :)

An EDT isn't necessarily a an expert when it comes to weight. As a nation we have also got used to looking at overweight horses due to how we keep them, on dairy grass and stables without enough work, so few people know what a decent weight is now.
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Sorry but I agree.

OP, could you turn him out in a muzzle during the day? Or is he having hay in the field at the moment?
 
You can swap hay with hi fi on a weight for weight basis and it is much lower in calories. He could have half his normal ration in hay and half in hi fi lite or good doer and that would be a lot of hi fi!
 
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