Ive been reading replies on another post.........

Can i just straighten 1 or 2 of you out on here if he boots out at me wtf do you think i do pat him on the neck and tell him he is a good boy???NO but until you know the animal you will quite frankly never understand.
1. You can ask anybody that knows him will tell you he actually hates being turned out summer or winter
2. He is very happy to be in his stable providing he is in there alone
3. If you show any sign of aggresion towards him either verbal or physical it just makes the matter 1000 times worse
4. If he gets out for just 10 to 15 mins a days even if its only tied to the wall he is totally different
5. Only the week before xmas a horse on neighbouring yard slipped on ice fell and broke its leg resulting in said horse being shot,then having to be left their for almost a week because knacker wagon couldnt get there to collect it.
6. as my horse has already suffered 1 broken leg and dislocated hip that has taken 3 years to recover from i think most people should understand why i am a little caucious to take him out in this weather
7. I would rather run the gauntlet than put my horse at risk
Sorry but this post made me bloody angry
 
Can I just say that whipping a horse when it boots you is negative reinforcement - you are whipping it for doing something wrong. Then when you use the whip to get horse to move off your leg he will then associate it that he has done something wrong, having a negative impact and could ruin your horse.

And my horse is a saint to work around (after some manner training of course) but there are times when horse takes over and theres not much i can do about it. Its called being a horse!!

The lady in question explained that her horse is a loony (her words!) in general and that she cant do much about the situation, so its very unfair to nit pick/rant/rave on something that is out of her control.
 
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But who wants a fight with a half tonne creature? Because I know some horses where if they want you to eff off out their 'area' aren't going to take kindly to being told off. For example, when you feed my horse, he will kick out behind him if he thinks you're 'stealing' his food. He does it to horse and human (more horse though) and as a result once we've fed we leave him alone. Letting him get away with it, or picking our fight? You never know the full story on a forum (Cheeky has a good reason why he's overly protective of his food) so its never our place to judge, just offer advice.

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I completely understand this as Bear's only 'quirk' is food, but he has had a few tellings off in the past when I 1st bought him (3 yrs ago)
He's fine now
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He'll pull the odd face but would't dare bite/kick.
 
Richie- i feel for you. Unfortunately you are in a situation that is not your fault and i can see you are trying your best. You have a horse with special needs that requires alot of understanding and on going training/ re-education. Good for you for trying.

As to your predicament there was lots of helpful advice on the other post. Good luck
 
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I've just read most of the post about Richie and have to say i'm not sure giving that horse a smack would fix anything. If it were my mare a smack would definitely give her a shock and make her behave but sounds like Richie has lots of other problems about people being in his space etc. I'd say he needs some professional help to retrain him and make him less dangerous.
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Thats just my opinion. So i can see why the responses are different.

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I think the point was that he should have been handled firmly earlier on in his life. I doubt smacking him on the arse now would make a difference.
 
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Can i just straighten 1 or 2 of you out on here if he boots out at me wtf do you think i do pat him on the neck and tell him he is a good boy???NO but until you know the animal you will quite frankly never understand.
1. You can ask anybody that knows him will tell you he actually hates being turned out summer or winter
2. He is very happy to be in his stable providing he is in there alone
3. If you show any sign of aggresion towards him either verbal or physical it just makes the matter 1000 times worse
4. If he gets out for just 10 to 15 mins a days even if its only tied to the wall he is totally different
5. Only the week before xmas a horse on neighbouring yard slipped on ice fell and broke its leg resulting in said horse being shot,then having to be left their for almost a week because knacker wagon couldnt get there to collect it.
6. as my horse has already suffered 1 broken leg and dislocated hip that has taken 3 years to recover from i think most people should understand why i am a little caucious to take him out in this weather
7. I would rather run the gauntlet than put my horse at risk
Sorry but this post made me bloody angry

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And i dont blame you,i too havnt turned my boy out for the same reason,his gateway is lethal
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but if i were you i would get on at farmer huge time,and maybe just ask vet if they have something that will calm him down,acp's i dont think work,my lad has had them for certain things and they dont do anything for him!But there must be something they can give him,just to keep you safe!?
 
I don't know how many of you who say he needs a good whack have ever dealt with a horse with psychological issues, as this one clearly does. But it's a completely different kettle of fish from if your average horse is in a grumpy mood and kicks out at you now and again. In this instance, yes a smack might make them think twice about their place in the hierarchy next time before they clamp their teeth on you/ send a hoof your way.

But a horse which is that insecure in the stable that it is in a constant state of arousal when someone else goes in, and is that defensive, then a smack will do them no good at all. Probably because that is where this extremely defensive behaviour often stems from in the first place. I have to say i don't know how to solve this problem, it's not an easy one to solve, i've been there.

In a year of working with a horse who was a lamb in the field, but always wanted to come in, yet an absolute horror in his stable trying to take your head off every which way, i can sympathise. We tried smacking him every time he bit or kicked, and he got worse if anything. We tried screaming and waving at him to scare him when he did it, and he just lunged for you. I tried join up, which had no effect- as he was a lamb in the school, just not around his stable. In the end he got chucked out 24/7 and eventually got used to it, and was a very happy horse (unless put in a stable again or having rugs on- so not a true fix).

But that's no help to this situation... so all you can do when the weather means you have no choice, is try and keep him occupied and not wind them up any more, or else is will just escalate.

FWIW, i do think this was a bit of a silly post to start, especially to name names specifically. Maybe a general 'manners' post would be better?
 
Just out of interest: those of you who suggest hitting a horse to teach it manners and show it who is boss, how many horses have you rehabilitated?

I am not against a smack by any means, but some seriously wound up or aggressive horses will become 100% worse in response to aggression and I can't help but think that all this talk is bravado in front of a computer.

This thread is uncalled for. Richie_is_a_loonie's horse sounds like a seriously challenging animal and she is doing her best with him in difficult circumstances. Would anyone like to volunteer to handle him better?
 
Can I clarify I said ''some of the replies to Richies thread''
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I didn't point the finger at anypne
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Im not silly, I think a lot of the replies to Richies thread were silly
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I KNOW she doesn't keep him in 24/7, and he isn't usually as bad as he is ATM
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I can't recall seeing a single 'silly' reply, I do remember seeing a lot of replies (many with excellent points) from people who were genuinely trying to offer sensible advice to another owner who was asking for ideas. The problem is that what often works for one horse doesn't work for another so what you see as silly may have been a genuine cure for someone else's problem. I didn't reply to Richie's owner because I didn't have anything to offer in her situation, had I replied then seen my reply being labelled as silly I may have second thoughts about replying to any other posts in future. If everyone was made to feel that their ideas/advice was silly and they daren't reply then what would be the point of this forum. Surely the more ideas that are put forward the better and the more chance of something that will work being suggested.
 
PLEASE READ OP PROPERLY!!!!
I just used the thread as an example of some peoples way of handling animals! I Didn't mention Richie did I ??!!??!!




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Richie_is_a_looney's post about her horse being stuck in.
Some of the replies stunned me!

I cant understand how some people let their horses get away with it!!!
If my horse booted me for no reason, he'd have a whip accross his ass!!! If it was a mistake then fair enough but they were doing intentionally then god help them!!
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Manners Manners Manners!!!!

Unbelievable
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rant over
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Richies horse was obviously (to me anyway) not being bad mannered though. He had a reason for kicking out.

So if the post wasnt about manners then why did the replies stun you? Im confused
 
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from what i remember of the post, she wasn't keeping him in on purpose.



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I understand that sometimes a horse has to be box rested or has to stay in due to other circumstances such as ice. However my point was that the majority of horses undesirable behaviour is man made. You cant then whip it if you have caused the problem in the first place (intentionally or not).

I have read the other thread now and to me the poor horse just isnt coping with being shut in. This is not abnormal behaviour for a horse that isnt meant to be shut in a tiny space. Yes, it is not safe but giving it a whip across the backside is NOT a solution and wll hardly make the situation any better. Its not about manners in this situation- the horse cant cope and is trying to get out, it is highly stressed and as such is displaying behaviour that is dangerous to the owner. The owner therefore has to try and reduce the stress through sedation and many of the other suggestions so th horse becomes less dangerous. The horse then needs ongoing training so it becomes less stressed and reactive.

You have to think about it from the horses point of view- what will it think if it gets whipped or kicked because it is trying to communicate it is stressed? Or you can to put it another way - get your OH or friend to shut you in your bathroom for a week without explanation then when you complain they punch you in the face. Is it bad manners that you are complaining or is it because you are stressed?

Whipping/hitting a horse is very rarely acceptable, it should not be used due to a lack of understanding of horse behaviour and certainly not to punish a behaiour that you have caused, even for good reasons. Manners are different but even then you dont need to beat a horse to teach it manners.

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HERE HERE I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this, so if they require special treatment give them it dont respond by beating them up!! If my horse is treated with the respect he demands then he gives you 100% respect back do things wrong and the human will pay, hence the fact he will remain with us for the duration of his life, i for one dont feel that smacking an animal around will teach them manners and respect, whereas understanding them, listening to them and respecting them will reward you with manners and respect!!
 
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I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this,

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The Richie poster has owned the horse since he was a foal, so if the horse was not born nasty, then you must be saying that she has made him like this?
 
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Just out of interest: those of you who suggest hitting a horse to teach it manners and show it who is boss, how many horses have you rehabilitated?

I am not against a smack by any means, but some seriously wound up or aggressive horses will become 100% worse in response to aggression and I can't help but think that all this talk is bravado in front of a computer.

This thread is uncalled for. Richie_is_a_loonie's horse sounds like a seriously challenging animal and she is doing her best with him in difficult circumstances. Would anyone like to volunteer to handle him better?

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Thanks for this response that was my next post that if any of the posters that think i should hit or kick him to make him behave would like to come and show me they would be made most welcome
 
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I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this,

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The Richie poster has owned the horse since he was a foal, so if the horse was not born nasty, then you must be saying that she has made him like this?

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I bought richie as a 5 mth old foal that had been hand rearered he had quite a few issues when i got him mainly due to not having a mum to put him in his place and it didnt help that the day before i went to see him a farrier had literally wrestled him to the floor to trim his feet,so although i will accept some of the blame for maybe being slightly too soft i WILL NOT accept it all
 
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I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this,

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The Richie poster has owned the horse since he was a foal, so if the horse was not born nasty, then you must be saying that she has made him like this?

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In most cases undesirable behaviour is man made but not always. A horse is made from its genetics and its environment. Whilst human handling contributes to the environment a horse can also respond to other influences such as physical surroundings, feeding, etc. It is also genetically designed to live in open spaces. Some horses can cope with confinement but others cant. So technically the behaviour may be partially man made due to stabling but it is not necessarily because the owner has been a bad owner.
 
I laid no blame on your door, I was quoting the poster above me.

I am a breeder and thankfully all of my mares offsprings have grown up to be well rounded individuals. Most of my foals have had their moments with the farrier though the first couple of times however it has never had a lasting effect on any of them but yes I know it takes a lot of time and patience to teach them to be accepting of lifes trials.
 
Yes teddyt, I was asking the valentino person as she was the one making the statement. Ive bred countless foals over the decades so I am quite aware of all influences in their lives.
 
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Richies horse was obviously (to me anyway) not being bad mannered though. He had a reason for kicking out.

So if the post wasnt about manners then why did the replies stun you? Im confused

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It goes on all around us, on line and in RL. People getting walked all over by naughty horses, there was a couple of replies to Richies thread that made me cringe. Not naming people
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Richie, you say he was hand reared... That'll be why he's like he is, he was humanised, I bet they played with him etc and treated him like a dog.
I know someone that had the mare stolen when the foal was a day old, she has now had to be stern with him, he's only 7-8 months but he was getting too humanised, he wouldn't acknowledge other horses! So now he's turned out with one other by day and they dont pamper him.

I guess what Im trying to say is that it was drummed in him from day 1 he could walk over people?

Not that I was aiming this OP at you anyway
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Im confusing myself now! Its way past my bed time
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Sorry for the rambling
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I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this,

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The Richie poster has owned the horse since he was a foal, so if the horse was not born nasty, then you must be saying that she has made him like this?

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No i am not making judgement on someone that I dont know, but i stand by what i said animals are not born nasty/evil maybe he was not handled with experience when young i dont know because i dont know either the owner or the said horse, i am just giving MY opinion on what i believe!!!!
 
nor me! I think your experience is proof of how unpredictable horses can be regardless of how well mannered we believe they are!! Until someone has an experience such as yours they will never understand just how easily it can happen, no matter how much they batter their horse for showing bad manners!!! Im with you in that after one has been stuck in, or is even a bit giddy when being led, I am terrified whilst leading them even though I try to pretend not to be.
 
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I have a difficult horse who will rear up and pounce at you if you dont give him the space and respect that he requires, he requires this through past human handling, animals are not born nasty/evil its humans that make them like this,

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The Richie poster has owned the horse since he was a foal, so if the horse was not born nasty, then you must be saying that she has made him like this?

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No i am not making judgement on someone that I dont know, but i stand by what i said animals are not born nasty/evil maybe he was not handled with experience when young i dont know because i dont know either the owner or the said horse, i am just giving MY opinion on what i believe!!!!

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and to add to that horses are naturally flight NOT fight animals, so who teaches them to fight and not flight.....the faires or those caring for them? as a breeder you are obviously well experienced on handling youngsters and as you said have always had well rounded offspring this happened because they were handled with said experience and not just slapped and punched because they are not showing you the utmost respect or being impeccably mannered!!
 
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* wonders how many people on this thread think I deserved to have been kicked in the face...?! *
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Your turning the tables there Puppy, I have not said at any time anyone deserves a boot in the face!
No one deserves a boot in the face. You obviously knew it wasn't in your horses nature otherwise you wouldn't have got in the predicament.
I dont know how/where/why you did get kicked.
Im talking about people 'knowing' and accepting bad/nasty behaviour and shrugging it off
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nor me! I think your experience is proof of how unpredictable horses can be regardless of how well mannered we believe they are!! Until someone has an experience such as yours they will never understand just how easily it can happen, no matter how much they batter their horse for showing bad manners!!! Im with you in that after one has been stuck in, or is even a bit giddy when being led, I am terrified whilst leading them even though I try to pretend not to be.

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I have posted on here and would just like to add...i have never battered my horse,he has been disciplined from 6mnth old but never battered!!And i have not said in any post i have made that people should batter their horse,discipline is completely different to battering
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Hadfos, dont you like how they turn it round
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QR to hch4971
Yet again, way off OP, Im not talking about horses being un predictable! I dont trust any animal 100%, not even my cute little dogs!
The point is, people letting horses walk all over them!
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