I've got a planter!

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I've got a planter, and unfortunately I bought it from a horse dealer and not a garden centre :)

So, excuse the length this is going to be but I'm going to try to give all the relevant information up front so people don't waste their time giving answers that can't help.

Horse is four, was backed for me this spring and I have continued his education. He is spectacularly unaware of his own body, very immature mentally, and both nervous and curious in character. I have broken many horses successfully, including another four year old I currently own.

He was hacking out alone with increasing confidence (but still not what you would call confident, just improving each time). When nervous, he clacks his mouth like a foal and is very easy to 'read'.

Today, he planted, and nothing I could do would move him. In the end, I led him out and rode him back. I think this was mostly napping, because he was not foal mouthing.

So, obvious answers to this are:

Go out in company. Difficult. Nearest horsey neighbours are three miles away or more, ten miles by horsebox. Friends who are experienced enough to come and accompany me on my other four year old are busy with their own horses. I could pay, but I'd like to avoid the twenty quid an hour it will cost for the two people I know who I would trust to do it.

Beat him. I would have done this in the past, but I would prefer to take a different approach now that I don't bounce so well, and in view of what a nervous horse and slow learner he is generally.

Get off lead him. This is what I did today, and what I would prefer to do in future of necessary.

So..... what's the question, I hear you ask:) ?

There are two

- have I missed an alternative way of stopping him planting?

- do you have success stories of where 'get off and lead' has worked for horses of this type? Our is your experience that the problem will simply continue if I do this?

All suggestions welcome, thanks in advance :)
 
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I wouldn't want to get into a habit of hopping off to lead, although appreciate at times this might be what is needed.

I think investing £20 once a week for someone to come out with you would be worthwhile in the long run.

In between, could someone join you on a push bike and be prepared to step in and help as required?
 
I had a quarter horse who could glue her feet to the ground, but I was never in your position of being stuck on my own, as I was boarded at a busy stable so could recruit mates to lead us out and play "leapfrog" games on the trail, until she was happy being out front when in a group and going out by herself.

If you don't have a friend who can ride out with you regularly, could you pony your guy from another horse? Get him used to being out and about.

Edit as crossposted: A friend on foot or on a bike is a good idea as well.
 
Caol Ila said:
I had a quarter horse who could glue her feet to the ground, but I was never in your position of being stuck on my own, as I was boarded at a busy stable so could recruit mates to lead us out and play "leapfrog" games on the trail, until she was happy being out front when in a group and going out by herself.

If you don't have a friend who can ride out with you regularly, could you pony your guy from another horse? Get him used to being out and about.

Edit as crossposted: A friend on foot or on a bike is a good idea as well.
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Interesting! This is a quarter horse too. I've never met a horse like him and I thought I'd seen them all!

I edited my post after you answered it to explain why I can't lead and ride, sorry.

I think I'd have to be the one on the bike for him to follow it :)
 
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Did you only ask him to move forwards?

I ask as we had one (who whilst did not have the excuse of being a youngster, was very nervous of the world), and would plant. Some people try to turn a circle, but he wouldn't as the initial movement was forwards, so we taught him to go sideways (green cob, badly schooled) and this helped to 'unstick' his feet and he'd go forwards again.

We started teaching this inhand in the school, then progressed to ridden and then did the same out hacking as he'd plant regardless of whether he had a rider or a leader.

Other horses, people, and increasing lengths did nothing for him, it was almost like he'd get a fright at something then freeze and almost forget how to move forwards. Moving sideways was his coping mechanism. He eventually built it up into shoulder in past scary things.
 
An alternative and something I was considering with mine is to long rein out, they are not taking the lead from you so still gaining some independence, then getting on to ride back, if you can avoid actually turning round by having a loop it obviously helps prevent napping, you would also need a place to leave the reins to collect later without them being picked up someone.

My first answer was to buy a nice shrub or some herbs but not really what you require.
 
He sounds like a candidate for being turned away to grow up, both physically and mentally. He sounds very immature for his age. He may be an altogther different, and easier, prospect next spring.

You need to end the current spell of ridden work on a good note, though, so it would be worth enlisting the £20 a time helpers to help you through the current glitch.
 
Ride and lead and long reining cured my (much worse) planting paint horse. You have to be ready to drive them strongly forward with the long reins so good boots/gloves/hat etc and make sure he understands the principle somewhere safe. Was not easy with mine the first time but it did work very well once she realised she could not get back and had to go forwards.
 
DiNozzo said:
Did you only ask him to move forwards?
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No, I tried all the tricks that have stood me in good stead before with napping flat racers hacking alone for the first time. Sideways, backwards, any way at all. At first I managed to rock him off one front foot and get one sideways step, but then he got wise to that and stood splay footed. He was very calm, just completely obstinate. He tried to shut down mentally, but I stopped that by tapping him randomly all over his body. He just point blank refused to lift a foot off the road!
 
FfionWinnie said:
Ride and lead and long reining cured my (much worse) planting paint horse. You have to be ready to drive them strongly forward with the long reins so good boots/gloves/hat etc and make sure he understands the principle somewhere safe. Was not easy with mine the first time but it did work very well once she realised she could not get back and had to go forwards.
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I can't safely do either I'm afraid, because of the roads :(
 
Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods ;)
 
Fides said:
Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods ;)
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Oh yes. It worked the first time at about ten minutes. I'm afraid I gave up the second time at about fifteen minutes. Maybe longer would do the trick, I need to take a book :)
 
Fides said:
Have you tried just sitting there till he gets bored? I had a planter who would reverse at speed if pushed. Seems he equally disliked being told to stand still for
Long periods ;)
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I've had success with that too. An eventer that would nap for England - he napped 15 minutes from home this one time. Middle of winter, fully clipped.

I sat there for 45 minutes. He was shivering his butt off. And then just walked forwards home. He never gave me a real battle after that day
 
Tiddlypom said:
He sounds like a candidate for being turned away to grow up, both physically and mentally. He sounds very immature for his age. He may be an altogther different, and easier, prospect next spring.
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He does, doesn't he? I'd rather not if I can get through this. He is improving all the time to handle and to ride on the arena. And physically he is developing beautifully with the hill work, he's twice the horse I bought already :)

I will seriously consider your suggestion, though.
 
Does he plant anywhere else, if you could long rein him around a field or just in and out of the yard to get him going without taking the opportunity to stop and look, he sounds very immature mentally so you could find giving him a short break will help, they often come back with a different attitude even after a week of doing nothing.
 
Mine used to plant, wouldn't go sideways, backwards. Eventually I just sat it out. Was once there for an hour but it reduced each time and now she's one of the best hackers.

I also had to make sure I only did circular routes or lollipop routes to prevent her thinking she was going to turn around. Every spook I had to make sure it was forwards etc.
 
ihatework said:
I've had success with that too. An eventer that would nap for England - he napped 15 minutes from home this one time. Middle of winter, fully clipped.

I sat there for 45 minutes. He was shivering his butt off. And then just walked forwards home. He never gave me a real battle after that day
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Sounds like I definitely need to take a book next time :) !

I did sit a warmblood out for forty minutes once, I'm sure I can do it again.

He definitely wasn't scared, is so easy to tell when he is. It was sheer obstinacy at not wanting to leave home.
 
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Charmin said:
Mine used to plant, wouldn't go sideways, backwards. Eventually I just sat it out. Was once there for an hour but it reduced each time and now she's one of the best hackers.

I also had to make sure I only did circular routes or lollipop routes to prevent her thinking she was going to turn around. Every spook I had to make sure it was forwards etc.
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This is obviously another problem, but I don't have any circular routes available. I have to do a minimum of a mile and a half before the road branches. I could move I suppose :)
 
be positive said:
Does he plant anywhere else, if you could long rein him around a field or just in and out of the yard to get him going without taking the opportunity to stop and look, he sounds very immature mentally so you could find giving him a short break will help, they often come back with a different attitude even after a week of doing nothing.
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He has planted for very short periods of time on the arena, but that stopped after I waited him out for a few minutes. His arena work is getting better and better but he is a long, long way behind where you might expect a horse who is into his fourth month of being ridden to be. (It's lucky my other one is way ahead or I'd be really miserable :))

A week off might be a good thing to try, we'll have lost nothing if it doesn't work.
 
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I've just realised that an edit which I did to my first post has been lost. I live in an area of very steep hills, blind bends, blind summits, and single track road. Ride and lead and long reining are both too dangerous, which is a shame since I'm pretty sure they would work.
 
cptrayes said:
I've just realised that an edit which I did to my first post has been lost. I live in an area of very steep hills, blind bends, blind summits, and single track road. Ride and lead and long reining are both too dangerous, which is a shame since I'm pretty sure they would work.
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Can you get someone on foot to be your safety net so you can do this?

Mine used to be a total arse hacking on his own. I had no choice but to get him going myself due to times that others were about. I long reined, then went hacking with someone on foot (still an srse but less bad). I waited it out, I whip whopped him with my reins (only thing that would make him move his feet at all). At one point he wouldn't leave the yard and we sat looking at the shavings pile for almost an hour with a wheelbarrow up his own backside for company *sigh* (on more than one occasion too).

Whats he like in a field on his own sort of schooling? Does he listen to aids to stop/go? Can you long line him in the field so he knows to GO forward? In the end I waited it out, then got tough and made him trot from the minute I got to a flat enough bit - not the best way to bring a horse back into work after time off due to tendon/ligament damage and almost 2 yrs of box rest (had been turned out and rehabed on horse walker for months first). Growling a lot was my other method, kicking/whips/shouting never worked but a very deep growl did occasionally, I also lunged him so he knew that go from voice meant go. He also got clever and would know when he was going ot be whip whopped with reins so would shuffle, so I used to try and make use of that - I have been laughed at a lot by a local farm, whose farm we frequently ground to a halt at. Another lady form another yard even got out of her car one day to try and persuade him to walk on, even with a carrot he wouldn't, persistant b*gger!

I never let him stop trotting as it was easier as he had less to think about other than stopping. When he did stop I made go in any direction even home and then turned him round again. Another milestone in 'being a brill hacker on his own' was a Gemma Pearson Clinic - back to basics but VERY good (he is also v spooky). He hacks alone, through traffic, canters along tracks, pulls up and is no longer scared of his own shadow :D
 
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He stops and starts in the arena though the trot can be very sticky to keep going. He steers fine, leg yields, and is generally a quiet, kind boy but very lacking in forwardness. I don't think this is me, he was like it with both the riders who backed him for the first three weeks ridden, and they were pros.

I can see my poor old OH being drafted in to walk behind us with a lunge whip at this rate :)
 
Been there, done that. :)
MY solution (NOT saying it works for all) - Is waiting, not 'beating' but wiggle wiggle (Bottom not hands!) or poke poke poke - Just make him know that this is NOT what you want, make going forwards the nice easy option. Have to admit I have used one of those big fat rope things swung about just to get some movement, anything!
Waiting with a book is just standing still fun for them!
How is he at Long reining??

What do you mean planted - Do you mean all four feet actually stuck to the ground and on space station 9 not listening to anything around him? (Oh this is the worst kind,,, trust me!)
Or a more 'active' plant, i.e. I will not move past that imaginary line on the road - but i will rear, buck, spin and chuck my head about!?

Either that, or wait until they are cubbing (Sorry Autumn hunting) around the corner,,, hack to join in - and for the next month he will be dragging YOU out to go have some fun!!!
Good luck
 
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Oops, there seem to be two copies of this thread running, I'll ask admin to amalgamate them.

Thank HH. I don't think he'll be physically strong enough in time for Autumn hunting. I go with the drag and it's a proper lot of exercise.
 
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I would sit it out for hours if necessary .
However I never put 4yos in this position I never hack them alone .
If he's doing it in the school that would worry me .
Any school work must be about I put my leg on you go , I am not a one for turning away problems but from the other things you have posted about this horse I might consider backing off to long riening or walking lunging over the roughest uneven stuff you can find to keep him thinking and developing eye to hoof and body coordination and leaving the hacking out for a while .
Then arrange a friend or pay someone to ride out with you twice a week if that's not possible I would send to a training yard for hacking in company to establish good behaviour this is what I did when I was alone .
 
cptrayes said:
He stops and starts in the arena though the trot can be very sticky to keep going. He steers fine, leg yields, and is generally a quiet, kind boy but very lacking in forwardness. I don't think this is me, he was like it with both the riders who backed him for the first three weeks ridden, and they were pros.

I can see my poor old OH being drafted in to walk behind us with a lunge whip at this rate :)
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I'd wait until he is more forward before attempting any solo hacking if he was mine, mine was fine in the school/at home but a swine out and about (he is 8 and does know better), be tempted to leave the whip at home, not a fan of chasing horses with a whip when they are reluctant to do something. Would get your OH to walk in front and start in the school so he trusts him then take it outside, would do some spook busting to give him confidence in you and himself :)

Good luck :)
 
Mine thought she'd go through a planting phase early on in our relationship. It was accidentally cured by going out with a horse that was MUCH slower than her and keeping her behind. She was furious at having to do pigeon steps the entire ride as I wouldn't let her go past to plant. She wasn't 4, she was being difficult and questioning my leadership.
 
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