I've got a planter!

leflynn said:
I'd wait until he is more forward before attempting any solo hacking if he was mine, mine was fine in the school/at home but a swine out and about (he is 8 and does know better), be tempted to leave the whip at home, not a fan of chasing horses with a whip when they are reluctant to do something. Would get your OH to walk in front and start in the school so he trusts him then take it outside, would do some spook busting to give him confidence in you and himself :)

Good luck :)
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Funny thing is that he is less spooky than he has ever been. He jumped out of his skin at a butterfly a month ago but carried on the hack So, what's this about now, then :) ?
 
Goldenstar said:
I would sit it out for hours if necessary .
However I never put 4yos in this position I never hack them alone .
If he's doing it in the school that would worry me .
Any school work must be about I put my leg on you go , I am not a one for turning away problems but from the other things you have posted about this horse I might consider backing off to long riening or walking lunging over the roughest uneven stuff you can find to keep him thinking and developing eye to hoof and body coordination and leaving the hacking out for a while .
Then arrange a friend or pay someone to ride out with you twice a week if that's not possible I would send to a training yard for hacking in company to establish good behaviour this is what I did when I was alone .
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I'm open to the suggestion that he simply isn't a horse who can be trained by someone on their own GS. I'll send him away before I ruin him, for sure.

He doesn't plant in the school any more, which gives me some incentive to try to get him hacking alone as well.
 
cptrayes said:
Funny thing is that he is less spooky than he has ever been. He jumped out of his skin at a butterfly a month ago but carried on the hack So, what's this about now, then :) ?
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Mine is spooky but goes forward now and now we have the spooking under control a bit better! If we could read horses mind its would be so much easier (possibly??!), the demo I went to basically said if you ain't got no forwards you'll find it difficult to do most things well :)
 
The quarter horse brain is an unusual organ - think native pony but more so! If they've got any ranch/foundation blood in them they are even more 'obstinate' but a lot of it is survival instinct. The bit about the spooking rang true - yes they can jump but are very quick to work out what is a real threat and what is not.
I would be tempted to send away, to get the company and more suitable hacking - I can't really hack mine in the winter because ground conditions mean that we usually have to turn back on ourselves - by the third time he is whipping round if it is too cold/too windy/too wet to meet his aspirations! They learn routes ridiculously quickly. (On the upside it usually means that 'monsters' in the arena that scare other youngsters for months very rarely worry them after they've seen them once)
Meanwhile, things that I have found can mobilise a planted QH: the 'wip-***' action of a thick rope (see Kelly Marks) or of split reins if using a western bridle; irritating them into moving forwards, ie persistent 'bumping' with a leg aid; boring them into moving forward ie standing still until they go forward - with ONLY forward steps being acceptable, no backing or stepping sideways; turning circles, although you say you have already tried this.
I would also work a bit more on getting him mobilised in the arena to reinforce the idea that leg means go.
 
Fascinating, thank you. He certainly is like no other horse I've ever trained. His father is a top class halter bred, Like a Clu. I wonder if him coming from in hand showing stock has made a difference?

He's spectacularly pretty and very sweet, so he can have some time to mature. Forwards is getting much more established in the school. We were on pony club kicks backed up with a whip tap. Now we are on just a calf squeeze. And he has a wonderful mouth too :)
 
I don't have any experience with quarter horses in particular, and you are obviously an experienced rider who knows what they are doing!

I would personally persevere with the solo hacking, have you tried carrying a short thick piece of rope that can be flapped either side. i have found that this can work when other strategies haven't.

I had one homebred mare that was a bit of a planter, I enlisted my husband to crack a hunting whip behind her, I think it took three or four days of this and she never looked back - turned out to be my best hunter.

He sounds lovely and I am sure it is just a blip, but I wouldn't be turning him away until he was more forward thinking.
 
I'm not at all keen to turn him away, and I'm certainly not a believer in doing it routinely, so obviously I'm very happy with your advice :) ;)
 
I thought people who haven't seen him might like to know who we are talking about.

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I had a horse that napped terribly when I got them. I found the best thing after trying everything else was to turn her head in the direction I wanted to go with her nose touching my foot in the stirrup and just sit there. No kicking or anything. Eventually she would sigh and walk in the right direction. I think it reset her brain somehow. She got better and better and eventually stopped napping altogether.
 
Had a livery that did that. cured it by going backwards, three miles til we met a bridleway the first day, he then agreed to turn and go about a mile and then hacked home ok.( It was a circular route) each day reduced the distance before he agreed to walk on and after a week only had to go 100 yards down the drive backwards, then he walked on a soon as he reached the road. thereafter, he was fine and his owner could hack him out alone which she had never been able to do. He was 5. I used this approach as he was very obstinate and his owner was a tiny lady who couldn't physically ride him forwards. I thought about it and decided that she could do what I had done if he ever did it again, he never did. put the behaviour down to being nervous of facing strange things. Not scared of then when he had gone by backwards!
 
Planting is very much a Highland pony thing, have a look on the Highland Pony Enthusiasts forum. Some of the stories are hilarious but so frustrating, solutions seem to be waiting it out and the whop whip. Must be a really good natured horse with a pony brain.
 
dieseldog said:
I had a horse that napped terribly when I got them. I found the best thing after trying everything else was to turn her head in the direction I wanted to go with her nose touching my foot in the stirrup and just sit there. No kicking or anything. Eventually she would sigh and walk in the right direction. I think it reset her brain somehow. She got better and better and eventually stopped napping altogether.
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I will try this if I can get his head round, thanks.
 
honetpot said:
Planting is very much a Highland pony thing, have a look on the Highland Pony Enthusiasts forum. Some of the stories are hilarious but so frustrating, solutions seem to be waiting it out and the whop whip. Must be a really good natured horse with a pony brain.
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Thanks :).
 
What a lovely horse!!
He is still very young so I wouldn't worry too much. Did I read correctly that he's only done it very recently? I would then get your OH to walk out with you, before it becomes a habit. Make sure to do some work in the arena first so they're both prepared. Then if that works, gradually let him walk further behind you and hopefully the horse will become more confident! I would try to avoid the situation altogether, as he's so young, but once he's planted, it'll probably be a waiting game/annoying him until he moves and no giving up. Also I wouldn't hack him out too often so that he can take some time to think about it between each time.

Also doing lots of ground work might help to make him trust you and obey you, although you might already have done that with him? Maybe try doing "scary stuff" in the arena whilst you ride?
 
We bought one that planted. His previous owner had been a novice and when he planted out hacking he would get off and lead him so he learned quickly that if he stopped, he didn't have to be ridden! Unfortunately, I'm not so gullible so I wore a BP and took a lead rope with the buckle removed and a knot tied in the end. When Jack stopped I swung the rope back and forth across my body so that it banged my BP. This took him by surprise and he shot forwards. I didn't want him getting used to the rope trick so a couple of days later I progressed to carrying a small plastic bottle with some gravel in it. Again, shaking that was enough to get his feet moving forwards. Trying to out-do me, Jack then started stopping and backing up instead, so I took control and MADE him back up. Well of course then he didn't want to go back any more, when it was no longer his decision, so he'd set off walking forwards again and I would make him trot for a long time. After about a week of "discussions" he decided life was a heck of a lot easier if he just kept a-ploddin'.... He's a different boy now to the one who first arrived.

PS He was 10 at the time and not scared, he'd just learned the evasion.
 
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old hand said:
Had a livery that did that. cured it by going backwards, three miles til we met a bridleway the first day, he then agreed to turn and go about a mile and then hacked home ok.( It was a circular route) each day reduced the distance before he agreed to walk on and after a week only had to go 100 yards down the drive backwards, then he walked on a soon as he reached the road. thereafter, he was fine and his owner could hack him out alone which she had never been able to do. He was 5. I used this approach as he was very obstinate and his owner was a tiny lady who couldn't physically ride him forwards. I thought about it and decided that she could do what I had done if he ever did it again, he never did. put the behaviour down to being nervous of facing strange things. Not scared of then when he had gone by backwards!
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I tried backwards. He wasn't going anywhere :) He's not afraid of anything that is making him plant, in fact he's less afraid than he's ever been. He just suddenly decided today, on a hack he's done ten times before, that he was not going to go any further from home. Full stop. No fuss, no bother, just planted like a boulder . Mule :) (sorry mules)
 
HannaST said:
What a lovely horse!!
He is still very young so I wouldn't worry too much. Did I read correctly that he's only done it very recently? I would then get your OH to walk out with you, before it becomes a habit. Make sure to do some work in the arena first so they're both prepared. Then if that works, gradually let him walk further behind you and hopefully the horse will become more confident! I would try to avoid the situation altogether, as he's so young, but once he's planted, it'll probably be a waiting game/annoying him until he moves and no giving up. Also I wouldn't hack him out too often so that he can take some time to think about it between each time.

Also doing lots of ground work might help to make him trust you and obey you, although you might already have done that with him? Maybe try doing "scary stuff" in the arena whilst you ride?
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Yes, he'll do whatever I ask on the floor, and I have also been putting stuff on the arena and he's been getting less and less spooky every day. Thanks for the encouragement, he is young and this was new today. I won't let it turn into a habit, he's too good to spoil.
 
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Coblover63 said:
We bought one that planted. His previous owner had been a novice and when he planted out hacking he would get off and lead him so he learned quickly that if he stopped, he didn't have to be ridden! Unfortunately, I'm not so gullible so I wore a BP and took a lead rope with the buckle removed and a knot tied in the end. When Jack stopped I swung the rope back and forth across my body so that it banged my BP. This took him by surprise and he shot forwards. I didn't want him getting used to the rope trick so a couple of days later I progressed to carrying a small plastic bottle with some gravel in it. Again, shaking that was enough to get his feet moving forwards. Trying to out-do me, Jack then started stopping and backing up instead, so I took control and MADE him back up. Well of course then he didn't want to go back any more, when it was no longer his decision, so he'd set off walking forwards again and I would make him trot for a long time. After about a week of "discussions" he decided life was a heck of a lot easier if he just kept a-ploddin'.... He's a different boy now to the one who first arrived.

PS He was 10 at the time and not scared, he'd just learned the evasion.
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Interesting. He reacts to gravel inside my plastic jump poles, that might be a trick to try :)

The whipwop idea is coming up a fair bit, it's obviously something to try as well. He may jump out of his skin but at least he'll have moved!!
 
Not sure if this would work with a youngster, but mine reins back really effectively and I've taken to backing passed things that he's (pretending to be) afraid of. Does look very odd to passers by though :D
 
The thing I do when mine plants is make it as uncomfortable as possible for him to stand still. So not beat him but try and turn him away and then the other way until he decides that it's just easier to move forward.
 
I tried, but he has a neat way of spreading like Bambi, and he can't be moved - it's really quite clever if it wasn't so irritating!
 
Hi. I share your pain I also have a challenging four year old who would do the same.I have broken many others and had never met anything as bad as this one.
She is sharp as so beating her was not going to work. Sitting there sometimes worked. But in the end I used to take her for a walk tacked up and jump on her and ride back. Sometimes I would jump on and ride about 100 yards then turn back. Each day I pushed the boundaries and eventually she thought it was fun. Happy days
It only took a few days till I could hack out the yard on my own
 
Madali said:
Hi. I share your pain I also have a challenging four year old who would do the same.I have broken many others and had never met anything as bad as this one.
She is sharp as so beating her was not going to work. Sitting there sometimes worked. But in the end I used to take her for a walk tacked up and jump on her and ride back. Sometimes I would jump on and ride about 100 yards then turn back. Each day I pushed the boundaries and eventually she thought it was fun. Happy days
It only took a few days till I could hack out the yard on my own
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Hello! You're the first person to post who has resolved this in the way I would prefer to do it - walk him out and ride home.

Thank you. I might try it after all.

For other people, I wouldn't do this if I was having to lead because he was scared*. If that was the case, he would win by being led. I'm sure what he wants is to go home, so even by leading him, he isn't achieving that goal, he's going further away.


* If he is scared, he clacks his mouth like a foal. When he plants, he isn't clacking
 
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My standardbred went through a planting stage. He was also quite impatient ironically, so what worked for me was hopping off him, leading him for one stride, getting back on and asking again for him to walk on. If he wouldn't respond I got off again, led him another stride, stopped and remounted. Continued until he got fed up with it that he walked on. The first time I think I was on and off the saddle about 6 or 7 times in the space of a couple of minutes before it worked. Second time only twice. It didn't happen again.

But he wasn't young, he was old and stubborn :-)
 
I had a planter once. We got stuck 10 mins from home due to a 'plastic bag' gawp! I was going know where fast, so was all prepared to wait it out, then my phone rang... the hunting horn tone.
Quick smarted it back with a happy spring in his step!! lol Maybe an idea at least!?

Your situation, I'd get some company when possible, but I would also wait it out as long as he isn't getting scared.
Good luck!
 
mairiwick said:
My standardbred went through a planting stage. He was also quite impatient ironically, so what worked for me was hopping off him, leading him for one stride, getting back on and asking again for him to walk on. If he wouldn't respond I got off again, led him another stride, stopped and remounted. Continued until he got fed up with it that he walked on. The first time I think I was on and off the saddle about 6 or 7 times in the space of a couple of minutes before it worked. Second time only twice. It didn't happen again.

But he wasn't young, he was old and stubborn :-)
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I hadn't thought of that one. Worth a try.
 
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