I've had a breakthrough! But now what?

[JFTDWS]

Yes it has, and I didn't mean to cast aspertions on your Highland, but conformation does have a lot to do with why people are not able to "make" their horses look like the pictures. It's actually not possible for you to raise a horse's forehand, only he can do that, and only as far as he is physically endowed to do so. Keep that lovely Lusitano in your mind as you ride your undoubtedly equally lovely Highland

No need to be patronising - I was merely illustrating a point. I am aware that I can't physically raise my horse's forehand, but I can ride him in a manner hat is conducive to him learning to do it for himself.

 

[JFTDWS]

why stress a horse to ride in a way thats not natural to its breeding?

I'm talking about keeping the poll the highest point of the neck, which is perfectly achievable with a highland - and I speak from experience there. By lower headcarriage you either mean the awful "breaking behind the poll" look, which is inexcusable in any breed, imho, or you misunderstand my original comments entirely.

You may get your highland mistaken for an iberian occasionally, but then if that is the case they probably know nothing or that they need to go to spec savers that takes nothing away from your horse, its just that they really aren't that similar are they?

Again, that depends on your view of conformation and indeed, of what a highland should look like. I was being flippant when I commented that he is mistaken for a lusitano (though he has been) - he has also been mistaken for a connemara on a number of occasions, which are also rather dissimilar to highlands - I am often told he "can't possibly be a highland - he's too slim" - all these people are wrong and grossly misinformed as to what a highland should look like, or what condition they should be kept in. But this is neither relevant, nor constructive.

Anyway, I would go with the lower outline and when things are all sorted and settled and going nicely there are things that you can do to adjust the headcarriage

he goes very nicely and in a manner I find appropriate as it is, thanks very much - I never said I had a problem, I said that I disagreed with a number of the instructors I have experienced (albeit not all first hand - often I have witnessed them teaching friends on their horses in a manner I find incorrect).

 

[Kat]

He is indeed, but I also have two highlands. The cob's my old lad and he's as well schooled as he's ever going to get. My 5 y/old highland is really the only one who gets schooled in a manner I am concerned about...

I do think you're generalising slightly as there is a massive difference in the conformation and paces of a highland vs a welsh D vs a traditional cob (etc.). But I digress...

I think you've misunderstood my comment about the lusitano - I'm under no illusions that my horse is anything other than he is, but if you work with a horse, you normally have a picture in your head of how you would like them to look, in an ideal world. I would rather hold a picture of a classically schooled lusitano, rather than some of the horses I have seen competing at high level dressage / photos in books where the horse does not appear elevated and the head if carried lower with a lot more rein contact. My highland is never going to resemble either of those images closely, but that doesn't mean the choice of image I aim for won't affect how he ends up working.

My comments refer to a general tendancy in instructors in my area (or maybe just those I have witnessed) who seem to favour and encourage strong rein contact holding a horse down onto the forehand, because at that point the horse's head is on the vertical. I'm not talking about vague concepts of lightness here - I'm talking about being able to take a photo of the horse and draw a line from quarters to wither and extrapolate it into the ground in front of the horse. I tend to film my horse working where possible and I am less concerned about the position of his nose as I am with being confident that drawing the same line on an image of him will not project into the ground. Does that make sense? I may not have described it well...

Sometimes we get it so that it looks (in my head, at least) "right", sometimes less so - but I am confident that the answer to getting consistent "right-ness" isn't in pulling at or playing with his mouth. If I am struggling to get the "right" feeling, I start attempting lateral work and increasing transitions within the gait to get him working properly.

I think I've definitely digressed here - I've lost the point of what I was saying anyway (got distracted by an unrelated schooling discussion with my office buddy - I love having a horsey friend in the office, but I reckon everyone else must be bored sick of us!).

Sorry I accept that the various breeds have different conformation but that is kind of my point. They all have their strengths and their limitations and you have to recognise that when schooling them to a certain extent because they can't produce that "picture" if their conformation doesn't allow them to.

Iberians are built for collected work and tend to find that easy, they also find the "advanced outline" easy, but they tend to struggle with extensions a bit. Warmbloods on the otherhand find extension easier than collection. Cobs struggle with elevation, arabs don't, but they often find correct head carriage difficult.

Rather than focusing on your imaginary line, I would focus on whether he is tracking up and whether his back is lifted you can see this on video or in mirrors. You need to get the back lifted and the hind legs underneath before he will be able to lift his shoulder at all, and even then you should be looking for lift from where it is normally, if he is built downhill, you may have to be content with a horizontal line!

I think it would be more useful for you to think about when your horse is lifting and bending through his back, rather than lifting his shoulder.

 

[JFTDWS]

Sorry I accept that the various breeds have different conformation but that is kind of my point. They all have their strengths and their limitations and you have to recognise that when schooling them to a certain extent because they can't produce that "picture" if their conformation doesn't allow them to.

Iberians are built for collected work and tend to find that easy, they also find the "advanced outline" easy, but they tend to struggle with extensions a bit. Warmbloods on the otherhand find extension easier than collection. Cobs struggle with elevation, arabs don't, but they often find correct head carriage difficult. .

Ahh, but you inadvertantly touch on my point there too - of those generalisations, the "best fit" for a highland would be the iberian description - highlands tend to find collected work easy and struggle with extensions (I know Sylvia Loch stressed this a number of times in an article in a native pony periodical) i.e. that a cob should not necessarily be the best approximation for a highland, in terms of stereotyping conformation and likely style when ridden...

Rather than focusing on your imaginary line, I would focus on whether he is tracking up and whether his back is lifted you can see this on video or in mirrors. You need to get the back lifted and the hind legs underneath before he will be able to lift his shoulder at all, and even then you should be looking for lift from where it is normally, if he is built downhill, you may have to be content with a horizontal line!

I think it would be more useful for you to think about when your horse is lifting and bending through his back, rather than lifting his shoulder.

Possibly, I will consider the latter half of that. You're right, at his level of training I am happy with a horizontal line. A horizontal line is a far cry from some of the horses I have seen ridden round here - and the reason I am so concerned with my imaginary line is because I well aware of the effects of riding a horse so heavily onto the forehand - which in my experience (not with my own horses) is crippling arthritic changes in the knees and fetlocks at an early age. But I agree there are other things to look for in addition to that line - I normally look for evidence that his muscles along his underside are engaged, amongst other things.