Ivy's found her voice...

SaddlePsych'D

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...and it can be quite loud! She makes various funny noises but we've discovered her bark which is really high-pitched, loud and goes right through you.

She seems to be bringing it out in frustration/excitement around her dinner time, and to 'answer back' when asked to go to her bed (a cue which has been much improved so she does understand what this means). It doesn't seem to matter what we have done in the day (i.e., longer walks, a visit to the secure field for a run, eating a bit more through having a stuffed Kong etc.)

This evening I'm quite worried because she got really over excited/aroused and was jumping up on me on the sofa and barking at me. I tried to keep really calm in saying 'no' and moving her off the sofa, and rewarding her for being more settled but being totally honest it was a bit tense - or at least I felt tense. I don't know whether this is her feeling a bit brave/bossy in wanting her tea or something more concerning.

I'm getting worried about boundaries and on the one hand pleased she is coming out of her shell more (she's started trying to play with me, we working on not including 'mouthing' with that), but on the other not wanting this behaviour to continue or escalate. I really messed up with her last week and we had a couple of really stressful/unsettled days so maybe it's the fallout from that? The day times with her are fine and we've had some fab long walks the last few days, lots of time out in the garden, some toys out for her, hiding treats for her to sniff out but still in the evenings she seems a bit unsettled and today shook my confidence with her because she's shouting quite loud!

I keep hearing it will get easier with her but if anything it was easier when she first arrived, although that was probably because she was so overwhelmed and tired most of the time which isn't what we want for her at all.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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If she were mine, I would put her into her crate for 'time out' if she started barking at me from such close quarters. Remember, *you* are in charge!

Supposedly I am! She's generally been so easy with us we haven't felt we needed to take much charge outside of basic training and on walks but she does now seem to be 'challenging' (for want of a better word, she's obviously voicing her opinion/expressing what she needs or wants in dog language). It does tend to be directed towards me, I'm not sure what that says about our relationship! It might just be that I'm the one home most often but even when OH is here she's directing her noise towards me.
 

stangs

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I really messed up with her last week and we had a couple of really stressful/unsettled days so maybe it's the fallout from that?
Yes, that may be it. Hopefully, she'll settle again in a week or so, but, in the mean time, I'd be thinking more mental enrichment and rewarding her more throughout the day when she's relaxed.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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Teach her to "speak" and then teach her "quiet".

Simplest way to stop barking. It becomes another on command thing like a recall or sit

I've got it in mind but a little wary of trying to teach her the speak part in case we can't get the quiet part! Our other training is slooowly getting there but at worst results in her just doing 'down' for everything just in case that's what we want.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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I never put a dog in a crate as a punishment. If mine get overexcited I shove them off and tell them to go and lie down, if shoving is play/ exciting I’d get up and walk away. It’s all about getting the energy levels back down again.

I've been trying down/on your bed/settle and when she's really wound up it's just getting me more barking - like a teenager answering back: "Ivy, on your bed"..."No!"
 

Clodagh

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I've been trying down/on your bed/settle and when she's really wound up it's just getting me more barking - like a teenager answering back: "Ivy, on your bed"..."No!"
If you say it then she needs to do it ( I’m all flush with knowledge after a dog training weekend). So I would guess if she’s totally hyper there’s no point trying to get through and try to absent yourself ( turn back, or stare at ceiling) until she’s back in some sort of reachable zone. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will be able to just say what’s best, but that’s my guess.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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If you say it then she needs to do it ( I’m all flush with knowledge after a dog training weekend). So I would guess if she’s totally hyper there’s no point trying to get through and try to absent yourself ( turn back, or stare at ceiling) until she’s back in some sort of reachable zone. I’m sure someone more knowledgeable will be able to just say what’s best, but that’s my guess.

Thank you I do appreciate the suggestions. I try not to get into an argument with her when she's like that, sometimes I can repeat the cue calmly and she'll bark but then go and do it (with a bit more gusto than necessary!)
 

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A poor attempt to explain...

My dog doesn't really bark (unless he's twanging the spring door stopper ?) but with barking dogs whilst they are barking say "speak" in a "ssss" excitable way in between barks.

So:
Dog- bark bark bark
Me Speak
Dog Bark
M speak
D bark
M Good Dog
The praise usually shell shocks them for a second so me "quiet" then would treat

I'd also teain thr bark/speak when they aren't ramped up and barking of their own accord. I only reward thr quiet after the bark but vocally encourage the barking if that makes sense.

I don't use a crate as a punishment but then I've never had a dog see a crate as anything but their bed and a nice place. Mine is a "proper" bred working dog and his tiny mind can get a bit overloaded at times so he does get a time out in his crate with a chew when needed.

He know sit/lie/stay but I use a settle command to get him to chill in the house. It was a work in progress and required a lot of repetition and slow build up until he'd just chill on his bed. Now due to selling my house and not finding another I'm at my parents with their 2 dogs. It's impossible to do "settle" because mum's two want involved with everything. As soon as I place him on a bed they chamber all over him. A firm "enough" gets hid attention and ignoring him works together him to settle at night.

Consistency and repition are pretty much the keys.
 

lozzles

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Just a thought as I'm by no means experienced Is it worth having a house lead on her in the evening for a bit of extra control? Could then pop her in her crate with a nice chew for some chill out time without needing to make a big thing about going to bed. Maybe a bit over tired mentally still from having been away?
 

some show

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Greyhound girls are renowned for being cheeky madams, if you follow Greyhound Gap on facebook it's always the little black girls who cause trouble ? Barking for attention is pretty common too, there are lots of youtube videos of greyhounds doing it - a lot of people find it endearing, them 'throwing a tantrum', but I know I'd find it a bit much! Doing it before dinner time is totally normal, usually about 30 mins to an hour beforehand! Usually starts with whining and then picks up to barking - they're so good at reading cues about what time of day it is/what you're doing.

If e.g. she was barking at you sitting on the couch, my choice would probably be to get up and walk away - I think any kind of response to her (unless you're actively trying to teach 'speak' as others have said) is giving her the attention she wants, so she'll keep doing it. Walk away, and as soon as she settles praise her/start making her dinner. Always praise for the behaviour you want.

 

SaddlePsych'D

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Greyhound girls are renowned for being cheeky madams, if you follow Greyhound Gap on facebook it's always the little black girls who cause trouble ?


Uh oh! :D

The video is a bit reassuring, that's pretty much exactly what she was doing. The barking more intermittent but loud! The same look in the eyes too which I was finding really hard to 'read' and was making me feel uncomfortable.

She's settled right down now having had a good chew on her yak cheese thingy and a chill in her crate while we had dinner (last night she had started barking at me during dinner, very not cool and totally unlike her as she is very good at not being a pest around the table). Now up snuggling on the sofa with OH - scratch that, just had to ask her to move off because she grumbled at him even though she decided to position herself too close, wedge her paws under him and then complain about it.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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Just a thought as I'm by no means experienced Is it worth having a house lead on her in the evening for a bit of extra control? Could then pop her in her crate with a nice chew for some chill out time without needing to make a big thing about going to bed. Maybe a bit over tired mentally still from having been away?

I've been meaning to get a house lead, I must get on it. The over-tired thing is definitely possible as she decided to bring OH home early on her walk today when she'd had enough.
 

some show

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The video is a bit reassuring, that's pretty much exactly what she was doing. The barking more intermittent but loud! The same look in the eyes too which I was finding really hard to 'read' and was making me feel uncomfortable.

The 'side eye' thing while doing those staccato barks at you is a weird greyhound thing, it does look unnerving if you're not ready for it! It sounds like Ivy is feeling very much at home and enjoying herself, to me ? You're doing great by managing her e.g. at dinner time by giving her a chew to keep her occupied.

Mine had a bit of 'sleep startle' to begin with, especially if we were up on the couch together and I didn't realise he'd fallen asleep, that's something to watch out for in the beginning if she grumbles/snaps at you at all.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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So many weird greyhound things to discover! She looks a bit scary when she's trying to play with me and also her face when she's running full speed towards me is quite dramatic. I posted these in the photos thread of her 'smiling' yesterday morning...terrifying :D

1649709554381.png

We've not seen any sleep startle from her but she does have this annoying habit of coming in for a snuggle on the sofa then grumbling when she hasn't got enough space. We don't make a big thing of it but do move her off as we don't want any snapping.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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Tawny has always grumbled at us if she’s not comfortable (on the sofa or bed) if I rest my arm on her on the sofa or if you turn over in the night when she’s sleeping. So it might not mean anything.

I should have said growl rather than grumble. She does lots of grumbling/groaning in her own bed when she's settling down. With the sofa thing it's been little growls and she lays there, head up, looking at you with a cheesed-off looking expression so I think they are like warning growls to make us move. Hopefully is nothing like with your Tawny but bearing on the side of caution while we're still working out what's what :)
 

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I should have said growl rather than grumble. She does lots of grumbling/groaning in her own bed when she's settling down. With the sofa thing it's been little growls and she lays there, head up, looking at you with a cheesed-off looking expression so I think they are like warning growls to make us move. Hopefully is nothing like with your Tawny but bearing on the side of caution while we're still working out what's what :)
Sounds sensible.
 

Pearlsacarolsinger

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Supposedly I am! She's generally been so easy with us we haven't felt we needed to take much charge outside of basic training and on walks but she does now seem to be 'challenging' (for want of a better word, she's obviously voicing her opinion/expressing what she needs or wants in dog language). It does tend to be directed towards me, I'm not sure what that says about our relationship! It might just be that I'm the one home most often but even when OH is here she's directing her noise towards me.


I didn't suggest the crate as punishment but as time out. But ours look upon their crates as a safe space.

ETA, meant to quote Clodagh, no idea what happened there!
 

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Our first lurcher grinned like that when he greeted us. Very cute! When Dylan (greyhound saluki x) was a teenager he would get quite hyper in the evenings. Dusk is the time to go hunting for many predators and their energy levels can soar ready for action. We realised we could not alter how he felt so we ritualised our interactions by giving him a game of searching one of his favourite toys all over the house (in the washing-machine, inside a bed, under a bed, behind a radiator..). Now he is 10 he still gets a hectic five minutes of ball game in the living-room. The action incorporates stays, gives and other cues so he knows he has to abide by rules while this is happening. When we say 'enough' and 'settle down' he knows there is no point badgering us any longer.
 

SusieT

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I think if shes growling on the sofa while beside you, I would not let her on the sofa for the moment - it just presents an opportunity for there to be an incident. I would calmly have her on the floor- and a line attached to her may help. Obviously have a nice bed for her.
 

CorvusCorax

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Agree with Susie, I wouldn't have her anywhere elevated.
Mine (who also grins!!) tends to go over threshold/into a frenzy and I just have to hold her calmly in the collar and wait her out. She can't do anything because I won't physically allow her, I wait her out, she must just sit or stand still and she calms down then she can go to her bed. Plays up again, nope.
I would go down the house line route also BUUUT train her that you touching her around the head and neck is a great thing as sometimes constantly reaching for them to 'stop their fun' can make more conflict.

I didn't know enough when her father was this age and I fought him and it escalated.
He is also an extremely noisy dog in drive/when frustrated, as well as being irritating it knocked him down at least one grade in competition before we even started.
You have to stop it when it's squeaking/whining that's when they're thinking about it. By the time they're barking it's too late.
Some dogs just love barking!!

It sounds like you might need to do a bit of relationship rejigging and get back control of resources and be very black and white about things/calm and confident. It's your house, it's your sofa, they're your toys, you bought the food, once she knows that and there's less ambiguity, she'll feel a lot more secure and you've removed her need to think/worry about that sort of thing.
 

SaddlePsych'D

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Ah it's a Silver Peacock one, I really love their martingales too! https://www.silverpeacock.co.uk/

Uh oh they have a Liberty print department!

Dusk is the time to go hunting for many predators and their energy levels can soar ready for action.

Oh this makes sense of why her evening walks were getting a bit 'peppy' with her cat patrolling before we were able to do them fully in daylight!

The sofa thing is a shame because she's not on there very often and most of the time when she is there it's quite nice but I do agree we don't want her on there with these little growls going on. She can't be climbing up and then telling us we need to move.

Definitely need a rejig of something. It feels like she is getting 'pushy' - I'm not sure if that's the right word. I know she wants her dinner but she's again just now she's come and started whining at me then leapt on the sofa at me (no barking) when that didn't get her anywhere. The lead has gone on and once she's settled I will feed her, I don't want an argument or to be 'alpha' or whatever but I'm not having this keep going on.
 

some show

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I honestly think you're doing a great job with her! Am I right in remembering she's only about two as well? I've been told greyhound adolescence goes on til at least two and a half to three years old, so that would explain her being full of beans at times. Joe was 3 and a half when I got him and even then his activity level was much higher than it was by, say, 5 years old.

My mum reminded me the other day that he growled a few times at sharing the couch in the early days, for which I always asked him to get off. He quickly learned to share and has spent a lot of his life on it ever since. I know in his case that he was kept in a shed with a concrete floor and no bedding, so for him the couch must've been quite a luxury and something worth guarding!
 
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