JAMES GRAY TO FACE TRIAL IN DECMBER

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Paddywhack

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EXCELLENT NEWS,So there must be enough evidence for a trial ????,and i assume that the horses/donkeys will remain in the safe hands of Redwings,ILPH and THS ? Was anyoe fom here there
"Jamie Gray to face 10-week court hearing in December

Abigail Butcher, H&H news editor

13 May, 2008

Jamie Gray, the man accused of causing unnecessary suffering to 125 horses, ponies and donkey will appear in court in December.

The hearing at Bicester Magistrates Court is expected to last for 10 weeks — and finish mid-March.


On 4 January this year, 31 equines were found dead at Gray's Spindle Farm in Amersham, and 111 other horses, ponies and donkeys were rescued in one of the biggest horse welfare cases on record in the UK.


The case and plight of the equines involved sparked intense media interest.


The case is expected to run from 8-19 December, adjourn for Christmas and start again on 12 January 2009 until early March.


RSPCA deputy head of press Becky Hawkes told H&H: "This is a long hearing for animal cruelty, but we were expecting it because of the large numbers of witnesses being called and evidence that needs to be heard.


"It may conclude earlier, depending on how quickly the evidence is heard."


The family — James John Gray, Julie Gray, Cordelia Gray and Jodie Gray, of Spindle Farm, Hyde Heath, Amersham — have pleaded not guilty to 12 charges related to section 4 and section 9 of the Animal Welfare Act 2006 — which cover causing unnecessary suffering to and failing to meet the needs of a total of 125 equines.
 
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Why is it taking 6mths to come to court?

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Because this country is hopeless when it comes to court cases! Why can't we be like other countries where cases like these are dealt with asap?
My friend in Canada was burgled, the guy was caught, tried and sentenced within 3 weeks - it would take 12 months here!
 
Despite all the denials and what's disturbing me somewhat, the charges still don't actually mention any dead horses or donkeys, just unecessary suffering.
I'm a bit puzzled why they don't mention them at all, I do hope this doesn't turn out to be just a neglect case, though obviously better still if nothing had died.
 
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Despite all the denials and what's disturbing me somewhat, the charges still don't actually mention any dead horses or donkeys, just unecessary suffering.
I'm a bit puzzled why they don't mention them at all, I do hope this doesn't turn out to be just a neglect case, though obviously better still if nothing had died.

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This isfrom Free Press and they do mention vet care to prevent death
" A TRIAL date for five people facing animal cruelty charges has been set for later this year.

James Gray, 44, Julie Gray, 40, Jodie Gray, 25, and Cordelia Gray, 19, all of Spindles Farm in Chalk Lane, Hyde Heath, and a teenager, who cannot be named for legal reasons, appeared at a pre-trial review at Banbury Magistrates Court today.

The hearing follows the discovery of 32 dead horses, donkeys and ponies at the farm near Amersham in January.

advertisementThe 12 charges relate to causing uneccessary suffering to a protected animal under the Animal Welfare Act 2006.

They include failing to provide a suitable diet and veterinary attention to prevent death.

District Judge Vickers decided the five should face trial starting on December 8 at Bicester Magistrates Court.

All five have pleaded not guilty to the charges
 
The trial will last for 50 days at most but there is to be another hearing on the 18th of July this year to which the trial may be condensed to around 40 days. The Gray family do not have to attend but can do if they wish so.

I thought the hearing today would be about looking at possible evidence for a trial but it consisted of just preparing things for a trial.

The reason the trial will be for such a duration is because certain witnesses are to be questioned & cross examined for a number of days - thats besides the witnesses being questioned and cross examined for a less number of days.

There are several witnesses who I cannot wait to see ribboned in the dock.

Like I said, some people must be careful to who they chat to because reliable sources coming from sutton in surrey are singing about certain other individuals.
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The hearing on 18th July at 10 AM at Bicester Court to hear an application by the R.S.P.C.A pursuant to Criminal Justice Act 2003 To admit bad character of James John Gray....
Jamie Gray is involved in a very large network he got caught and now got to face the music,not sure what other individuals M.J is talking about probably another way of distracting us from J.G,but when you get caught you are " on your own "

And I doubt that M.J knows the witness list,why would she/he unless she/he is in his legal team, and who will be in that dock since that is not public information due to protection of a witness and when it comes to J.G i doubt that any personal details about witnesses will be released before the trial..I said from the beginning that he would get charged and i was shot down,then that it would go to trial and again i was shot down and certain individuals claimed that there was not enough evidence to go to trial..
Yes sadly there are too many abused and mistreated anmals out there,but i hope/think that all of this will result in a new beginning and that the net is closing in on all the dodgy dealers using horses/donkeys as a cover up and that they should impose guidelines in welfare of equines at market/intended for meat.The most humane thing would be to "clean up the market " but who would fund that i don't know..you would not know where to start
 
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Quote - "this must be costing JG a lot of money in lawyers fees....... "


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That's petty cash for him,he is a very wealthy man...
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The hearing on 18th July at 10 AM at Bicester Court to hear an application by the R.S.P.C.A pursuant to Criminal Justice Act 2003 To admit bad character of James John Gray....
Jamie Gray is involved in a very large network he got caught and now got to face the music,not sure what other individuals M.J is talking about probably another way of distracting us from J.G,but when you get caught you are " on your own "

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Same old rubbish!! JG belongs to no network - He has dealt with horses for years on his own.....

Oh, and just for the record - you know the individuals I am talking about but you shouldn't be trusting them when you peddle your rubbish to them.
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....and BTW, I am "on my own" but I have nothing to hide so I have nothing to get caught for.
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And I doubt that M.J knows the witness list,why would she/he unless she/he is in his legal team, and who will be in that dock since that is not public information due to protection of a witness and when it comes to J.G i doubt that any personal details about witnesses will be released before the trial..

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I am NOT part of his legal team but I do know the witness list was read out in the court - so again, you just don't have a clue.

........and don't keep pretending that you don't know my gender - you most certainly do. You once refered to me as a 31 year old married MOTHER. - Oh, and just for the laugh of it - I have a child at uni... I PMSL at that one.


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I said from the beginning that he would get charged and i was shot down,then that it would go to trial and again i was shot down and certain individuals claimed that there was not enough evidence to go to trial..

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Come on now PW - in one thread you didn't seem to believe he may get charged - you said something along the lines of, "If he doesn't get done this time......"


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Yes sadly there are too many abused and mistreated anmals out there,but i hope/think that all of this will result in a new beginning and that the net is closing in on all the dodgy dealers using horses/donkeys as a cover up and that they should impose guidelines in welfare of equines at market/intended for meat.The most humane thing would be to "clean up the market " but who would fund that i don't know..you would not know where to start

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Goodness me PW, just what rubbish are you wanting to peddle now? A cover up for what?
 
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Quote - "this must be costing JG a lot of money in lawyers fees....... "


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That's petty cash for him,he is a very wealthy man...
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LOL.....he's a wealthy man but apparently he buys animals then starves them to near death, and sometimes death.
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PW obivioulsy does not have the noddle to think that a live healthy horse is worth more than a poor emaciated or dead one.

Surely he would go out of business and be a very stupid and UNWEALTHY man if he ran his business in such a way. PW, get yourself a little common sense.

BTW, you are the female of the PW duo posting these most recent messages.
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....there is to be another hearing on the 18th of July this year to which the trial may be condensed to around 40 days. The Gray family do not have to attend but can do if they wish so

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myjack, is this to hear an application by the R.S.P.C.A pursuant to Criminal Justice Act 2003 to admit bad character of James Gray...... or is that just heresay and/or speculation?
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and HH today states that "JG is due at Wycombe Magistrates Court on 21 May to face four further charges which include failing to dispose of animal carcasses and giving false information when applying for a licence to transport animals."
 
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http://www.buckinghamshireexaminer.co.uk/archives/2008/05/gray_found_guil.html
He is going to court on 18th July and its not hearsay
Isn't it funny that he is being charged for carcasses when a little birdie told us that there were NO dead horses on Spindles Farm ?

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Show me where a little birdie told anyone that there were NO dead horses on Spindles Farm ?

also, Isn't it funny that he is being charged for 16 carcasses when it's been splattered all over the papers and news that it was 32 carcasses on Spindles Farm ? However, even that number is FAR FAR FAR beyond REALITY.

BTW PW, you have not answered my questions in my other posts.
 
Do you REALLY think that i am getting into a debate with you MJ ? I do not have to answer to you or anyone else that does nothing but quoting people..You are so far up in the sky that it is laughable..Female Duo of what ???
Nope i am now bowing out of this thread,i have said what needed to be said and i dont fancy turning this thread into another 10 page debate ! The net is closing in on J.Gand you know it,the court dates speak for itself,now its up to the justice system just accept the it and get on with it..and dont waste your time quoting since i wont be in here posting a respons !!!
 
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http://www.buckinghamshireexaminer.co.uk/archives/2008/05/gray_found_guil.html
He is going to court on 18th July and its not hearsay
Isn't it funny that he is being charged for carcasses when a little birdie told us that there were NO dead horses on Spindles Farm ?

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I dont think MJ once said that there weren't any carcasses..infact JG himself has said that he had a logistial problem over the new year with animal disposal...
 
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Isn't it funny that he is being charged for 16 carcasses when it's been splattered all over the papers and news that it was 32 carcasses on Spindles Farm ?

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Would the 16 carcasses mentioned actually be in connection with the RSPCA case? It just seems odd that at the beginning of the press release it states:

"JAMES Gray was found guilty in his absence of assaulting a police officer during an RSPCA rescue operation at Spindle Farm in January when 32 horses were found dead and more than a 100 emaciated equines were removed."

but further down it adds.....

"Mr Gray was also due to appear at Wycombe Magistrates’ Court
yesterday, Wednesday, to face charges brought by Buckinghamshire Trading Standards.
Four charges were brought against him, which include failing to dispose of 16 animal carcasses from Spindle Farm and giving false information when applying for a licence to transport animals."

Maybe it could be just a printing error?
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Do you REALLY think that i am getting into a debate with you MJ ?

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Ummmmmmmmmm - Nope. because you KNOW I will pick your lies apart.
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I do not have to answer to you or anyone else that does nothing but quoting people..

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True - you do not have to answer to me.

but the problem with my quoting is?


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You are so far up in the sky that it is laughable..Female Duo of what ???

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I do not have to answer to you or anyone
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who doesn't answer my questions, but expects me to answer theirs, and is a proven liar.
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.....and you KNOW the answer to that question already.


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Nope i am now bowing out of this thread,i have said what needed to be said and i dont fancy turning this thread into another 10 page debate !

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If this is your true intentions then don't pose questions. Re; Female Duo of what ???


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The net is closing in on J.Gand you know it,the court dates speak for itself,now its up to the justice system just accept the it and get on with it..and dont waste your time quoting since i wont be in here posting a respons !!!

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All I know is that people along with YOURSELF are dragging his name throught the mud but your motives are far from genuine - because YOU know the TRUTH.
 
It does not help reading things like this (taken from Horse & Rider)
It has only been a short while since the headlines were swept with harrowing images of the emaciated equines found on a farm. Difficult scenes for anyone who loves animals to witness.

Visiting 14 of the most critical cases at The Horse Trust, it’s even harder to see how anyone could neglect these lovely – and surprisingly forgiving – animals.

Join Horse&Rider news editor Melanie Rutherford as she meets some of the equines who had so captured the hearts of the nation…

Head Groom, Charli Pardon remembers, still a bit shocked: “When we got the horses off the lorry, they couldn’t even manage the step to the stable – you had to push them up. A couple just collapsed once inside.”

If the dramatic rescue and extra animals hadn’t created enough work, it was only the beginning of the herculean effort to get these equines well.

“I haven’t had a proper day off for nearly four weeks,” Charli tells me, without an ounce of resentment in her voice. “But who cares? When you walk in here in the morning and see this lot, that’s thanks enough.”

There are people who are going to find it hard to believe that all these horses were bought in this state.
 
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It does not help reading things like this (taken from Horse & Rider)
It has only been a short while since the headlines were swept with harrowing images of the emaciated equines found on a farm. Difficult scenes for anyone who loves animals to witness.

Visiting 14 of the most critical cases at The Horse Trust, it’s even harder to see how anyone could neglect these lovely – and surprisingly forgiving – animals.

Join Horse&Rider news editor Melanie Rutherford as she meets some of the equines who had so captured the hearts of the nation…

Head Groom, Charli Pardon remembers, still a bit shocked: “When we got the horses off the lorry, they couldn’t even manage the step to the stable – you had to push them up. A couple just collapsed once inside.”

If the dramatic rescue and extra animals hadn’t created enough work, it was only the beginning of the herculean effort to get these equines well.

“I haven’t had a proper day off for nearly four weeks,” Charli tells me, without an ounce of resentment in her voice. “But who cares? When you walk in here in the morning and see this lot, that’s thanks enough.”

There are people who are going to find it hard to believe that all these horses were bought in this state.

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This is total rubbish (no offense meant to yourself).

There are also alot of people who are going to believe that alledgely such poor animals were in such fine health just 2/3 months later when the charities said that it will be a long and slow painful process to recover....they estimated a year. And at one point during that first week they said they didn't expect some of them to last the week out. They are shooting themselves in the foot almost everytime they publish such stuff. People need to think back to what was reported in the first days from the removal of the animals and see the inconsistancies and illogical reports from then up til now.

Now we see these beauful animals galloping across a field - the very thing they were doing before they were removed from JG.
 
I, like many people on this forum, would like to keep an open mind on this case at least until the outcome of the trial.
I refuse to believe all I read in press articles, they are written to sell papers, not to deliver the truth.
However Mr Gray has just been found guilty of assaulting a police officer - not the behaviour of an upstanding member of the community.
Due to his obvious disrespectful behaviour, I am more inclined to believe reports from 'Horse and Rider' and from the rescue centres than from his friends trying to defend him.
I am of course still hoping, however, that none of these charges of cruelty/neglect are true for the sake of the horses, ponies and donkeys.
 
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..infact JG himself has said that he had a logistial problem over the new year with animal disposal...

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According to a trading standards spokesman, preliminary post mortem results showed the "fresh bodies" of the carcasses collected from Spindles Farm had died from emaciation.

Around my area, the abatoirs and governing bodies only remain closed for a few days over the christmas and new year period. This is why I find it very difficult to understand how one, let alone a number of horses could actually starve to death over such a short period.

I've tried to stay neutral regarding this case, but I'm now beginning to find it very difficult to remain "sitting on the fence".... so think it best if I make this my last post on the subject and just wait for the court verdict.
 
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