Jeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeesus

umm, wheres the difference?? Again, I have no children but when I do, if they show the inclination to ride and be sucessful at their sport and I had plenty of money, would I buy them the top ponies, yep, I would.
I imagine that an even better feeling than you suceeding would be seeing your child do the best that they can.
 
I bet if Lewis Hamiltons dad could have afforded to buy him an F1 car at a young age he would have done! The reality is that most normal families are not mega rich but some are and the ones that are, if they can afford it, why the hell not???
 
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BrambleandMonty said:
have no issue with horses - all the money in the world couldn't compete against a top talented rider - am sure if I spent 200K I still wouldn't be nudging Pippa out of Team GB. It's for the KIDS. - They'll never get all the fun, messy mucky pony swapping fun of PC etc.

Does ring bells of the child russian gymnasts scandal - adults making kids compete
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....am hoping will not have to keep saying the same thing over and over, before anyone mentions MK/WFP/Totilas again.

it just sounds like something a dispatches documentary will be made of in the near future - Britains answer the to Russian child gymnasts. Can only imagine parents who spend 35K on a pony will not be too happy if the child decides they want to go to a sleepover, or lose interest in ponies, or just doesn't do very well?!

Where's the childhood in it? Where's the fun of messing around and being a kid?
 
bexcy-bee said:
Actually, for England isn't internationally, its National, He was a loan pony from a very good family friend, who still own said pony, and give me 2 mins and I will upload a photo, with the border around for all you delightful people [=
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Well no actually, not if you are using correct English. Competing nationally would be competing IN England. Competing FOR England implies that you are representing your country at an international competition. There's quite a difference between PC national champs and international junior competitions. Lol!
 
The_Hooligan said:
Again I'm going to say this as you simple seem incapable of getting it, These children CHOOSE to compete and be bloody good at it!! it is their CHOICE to do this they are not pushed into it by anyone, like I said on the yards I have worked at mummy and daddy where rarely seen or heard from and used as walking cheque books and cash points.
are you going to deny your children the right to choose and will you hold them back if good at something? seeing as you seem to beleive children should not compete to a high standard!!
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Just can't picture a 5/6/7 year old saying "mummy, will Santa bring me intensive training sessions this christmas"... Can only imagine parents who spend 35K on a pony will not be too happy if the child decides they want to go to a sleepover whilst they're supposed to be 'training', or lose interest in ponies, or just doesn't do very well?!

Wasn't getting frustrated with you - was with people going on abou thow much competition horses cost, and talking of MK?WFP/Totilas, which is outside the point.

I do see where you're coming from, it's just very difficult to imagine. Unless £35k pony is for a teenage ride, which I suppose would be less heinous - am hoping that maybe these parents do allow the actual children (i.e. under 12s) to have a few years of being a child, but I can imagine there are some pretty pushy parents of 7 year olds...
 
BrambleandMonty said:
it just sounds like something a dispatches documentary will be made of in the near future - Britains answer the to Russian child gymnasts. Can only imagine parents who spend 35K on a pony will not be too happy if the child decides they want to go to a sleepover, or lose interest in ponies, or just doesn't do very well?!

Where's the childhood in it? Where's the fun of messing around and being a kid?
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There's plenty of childhood in it - at a show they'll have to concentrate for their class - so approx 15 minutes per round incl warm up multiplied by the appropriate number of classes / ponies - it doesn't actually take that much time. The rest of the time.. .I remember playing in the river, talking to my friends, playing LOTS of pool, going to the discos that certain venues always held on the Saturday night, and generally behaving like I was out with a group of mates - which oops I was. We had sleepovers in one another's lorries and were KIDS. Yes there were a very few that were treated more strictly by their parents - tighter bed times, etc but you see that at school and in other circumstances as well.
(Although I will put a slight disclaimer - we never bought a £35k pony... but we sold a few :p)
 
Mary King spent in excess of 40k on two horses for Emily and lobbied for a change in the rules of BE to allow her to compete as a 12 year old. I really can't see a problem with that, if you've got the money, why not?
 
Oh, and whilst I read your points op, you'll note I was responding to other people, who'd taken the conversation in a different direction...it happens ;)
 
The pony is 14.1hh, how many children aged 5,6,7 are going to be riding a 14.1hh FEI schoolmaster??
Maybe a county standard leadrein/first ridden?
 
charlie76 said:
umm, wheres the difference?? .
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Childhood? Fun? A few years of childhood NOT spent being told the only thing you are worth is a red rosette, that your entire value in life is to win, that winning and competing and beating people and training, training seriously hard, endlessly, just to win.

People can do what they want with themselves, but I just think a child should be allowed to remain a child, without the pressure of FEI international competition.

It's the same kind of thing as the children who are forced to study 18 hours a day on their own solidaly, so they can have a degree by age 12 - there's just no childhood life in it.

I suppose if the child has had a great time as a kid, and then turns into a competitive teenager, then that's something different.
 
Puppy said:
Well no actually, not if you are using correct English. Competing nationally would be competing IN England. Competing FOR England implies that you are representing your country at an international competition. There's quite a difference between PC national champs and international junior competitions. Lol!
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Actually, no. Competing for GBR is competing internationally, and competing for ENGLAND is competing nationally.

At no time did I say there was not a difference between PC Nationals, and International junior comps, I was merely stating thats PC doesnt just mean 75cm! If you could read, you may have found that out prior to posting this comment. At no time did I state I was doing more than PC Nationals, People may have read it as that, for which I apologise, but please note, I competed for U21's for PONY CLUB, and I am NOT saying its the same as INTERNATIONAL JUNIOR COMPETITIONS. Has everyone got that now?
 
Brambleandmonty - sorry can't quote off phone!! I know what you are trying to say!! I've seen a lot of kids & parents this year at SJ events around the country where the kids are crying because mum & dad have really shouted & screamed at them for having a pole down or being a second too slow - "I haven't paid all that money on this pony for u to ******* it up" was one I heard!! this isn't enjoyment for the child!! Yes its the minority that I hear things like this from, but its frustrating because its usually the ones who have tons of v.expensive ponies to compete on. I got a lot of strange looks when at POYS the last thing I say to my girl before she goes in the ring is "just go & enjoy"! She is very determined & has high expectations but she knows that realistically we will never be able to afford for her to have a top pony, or even a 2nd pony, so she just enjoys what she does & tries her best. PC is her time to relax & play about with her pony
 
So what you are saying is, even though this pony is an obvious saint, has all the talent in the world, has won numerous titles and is a total superstar, they should advertise it for £3500 instead of its true value of , I have no doubt £35,000 on the off chance that some one might buy the pony who is a terrible parent that will force their child to ride and compete the pony against their will and have no childhood and no life- this it itself is a very strange assumption!
Or
Maybe they should just give it away?
Or
Put it down so no other child can have the benefit of learning from the pony?
 
its going round in circles now!! I think she was saying , "wow - expensive pony, no way I'd spend that on a kid, wouldn't be able to have fun at pc on it" its all personal opinion, freedom of speech & all that!! That's what op thinks, others don't (I do BTW!!) Done. It's getting boring now...
 
BrambleandMonty said:
Well.. yes. But as I have reiterated many, many times. It's not about spending £££££'s on a HORSE, it's about spending £££££££'s and putting children thruogh a life of strict competition.


have written this 1000 times already, but if the parents spent £500K on a horse for themselves, I wouldn't bat an eyelid, and would definately do the same for myself or OH, but would never do that for a CHILD, who should be playing and enjoying being a CHILD, not strictly tied down to the international competition lifestyle. You hear of some schools not running any competitive sports (eg races) on sports day - this is like the opposite end of the spectrum!


*wishing people would READ what is written*
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You don't know what it feels like to be in that situation in the same way that someone who spends £35k on a pony doesn't know what it is like to be you. Just give it a rest and appreciate your life for what it is and let everyone else get on with theirs!!! And I have read what you have written. You HAVEN'T written this 1000 times.

To be fair, how do you KNOW how a child with a £35k pony lives their lives. I could tell you, (having had contact with children who HAVE had that money spent on them - not me I hasten to add - I wish!!!!) but no matter WHAT I told you, you just would not listen. You have a fixed idea in your head and nothing anyone says will change your mind.

So - no point writing what you think the remaining 995 times (to make it up to your 1000 times) - as most people appear not to agree with you.
 
Bloody hell... This is all a bit dramatic, though I love the idea that doing PC stuff makes you a national rider if you get to the champs! FWIW, several ponies contesting the PC champs in the last few years would have cost that money. There is no price on a safe pony to pop round 1.15m and do a decent dressage test.

Al is deadly competitive of entirely her own accord. She voluntarily took her ponies round 1.10m BE Novice courses (unaff, but same course) at the age of 12. She was doing 1m ODEs age 11 without batting an eyelid. This pony did PC camp, PC rallies, the lot. He was, however, a nightmare. He was worth about £8k as he was totally off his head but would go round that height. If we could have afforded to support her ambition with ponies who were safe and weren't prone to random bolting/ napping/ rearing episodes and who'd jump that height at FEI pony trials then yes we'd have bought one for her. It wouldn't have ruined her childhood. It would have probably made it one heck of a lot safer!

Having fun is different for different children. For some, it's all in pushing themselves to their best over testing courses and winning. For others, that would finish them off. If your child was desperate to win at that level and you could afford to help them realise their dream then why wouldn't you?
 
If a parent can afford to pay 35k for a pony for their child chances are they can afford to lose it! If the parents had mortgaged themselves upto the hilt for said child's pony I can understand the pressure argument.

The 'deadstock' comment is very naive, these ponies/horses are insured for many many thousands and are unfortunately often worth more dead than alive, hence the reason many don't survive minor injuries :(

Pony Club isn't the be all and end all of enjoyment, I honestly think it is extremely overrated and full of half cop instructors who only seem to advise 'shorten you reins'. Not a good environment for a genuinely talented rider to learn in my opinion. Pony Club are far to keen on rough riding for my liking.

Regarding the 'pony swap' I wouldn't let some kick happy child get on my inexpensive pony and I wouldn't have done as a child.
 
The_Hooligan said:
FMM Although I doubt we have met, seeing you look to to be a showing person, and me up until recently a showjumper through and through, we could not have a closer oppinion on this subject, even if we had been cloned!! I whole heartedly 100% agree with what you have said above
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I gave up the jumping lark many years ago and concentrated on showing - but when I had the guts as a teenager, I would have given everything to have had a proper jumping pony and be able to compete at the same level then as I do now in showing!
 
I can't say I find it very admirable, parents paying 35k for top ponies. Who buys the ponies for the children who have talent but not rich parents? And who do you think will be more successful as adults, having gone through the route of riding a mixture of ponies, worked for a top rider or two and learned how to get the best out of not so good ponies and horses?

Of course its the parents that are competitive. Once you get one set of parents buying a 35k pony and their child doing well on it, other parents see it and buy a comparable one.
 
Mithras said:
I can't say I find it very admirable, parents paying 35k for top ponies. Who buys the ponies for the children who have talent but not rich parents? And who do you think will be more successful as adults, having gone through the route of riding a mixture of ponies, worked for a top rider or two and learned how to get the best out of not so good ponies and horses?

Of course its the parents that are competitive. Once you get one set of parents buying a 35k pony and their child doing well on it, other parents see it and buy a comparable one.
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Are you actually naive enough to think that all the top ponies are easy to ride? The kids that ride most of these ponies are fantastic jockies - most of them have a top pony or two and some younger ones that they are working on behind the scenes. Strangely, just like "grown up" show jumpers. Who do you think produces these top ponies if it is not the children?

The odd parent or two that has a non talented child doesn't keep wasting their money as the child is generally unable to ride said pony(ies).

My parents did not have a horsey bone in their body but I can assure you my competitive spirit was alive and well at the age of 11 even if they didn't come to watch me compete. And I suspect I am not alone!!!

And it is not just horse riding that the poorer children find it hard to excel at. Sailing, tennis, gymnastics, swimming - just about EVERY sport that you may like to compete at top level is enormously expensive without sponsorship.
 
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team barney said:
If a parent can afford to pay 35k for a pony for their child chances are they can afford to lose it! If the parents had mortgaged themselves upto the hilt for said child's pony I can understand the pressure argument.
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Definitely and I have seen it happen and parents bankrupted - but as I pointed out in an earlier post and as you seem to know it doesn't always have to be that way.

team barney said:
The 'deadstock' comment is very naive, these ponies/horses are insured for many many thousands and are unfortunately often worth more dead than alive, hence the reason many don't survive minor injuries :(
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Not that naive - it was actually the owner's reaction when we rang to tell him :rolleyes: to me it represents that he was a realistic chap and realised that sometimes these thing happen.
 
The trouble with these super expensive ponies is that the parents fork out all that money, plonk the child on and expect them to go out and win, and they often don't give the new partnership time to get to know each other.

I have known of two really good ponies, both advertised in H & H for around £12,000 but selling them became a nightmare. The previous owners had brought them on over years and been really successful, but the new owners just assumed the pony was just going to go out and win, with no input from the rider. (We paid all that money, why isn't it happening), and both ponies just kept coming back, confused and loosing form.
Reunited with the previous riders they were fine, but of course they were growing out of the classes.

Both found good homes in the end, but it was quite tricky, and one minute you have a pony worth £lots and if something goes wrong for the new owner, the gossip goes round and suddenly no one wants to know.
 
Don't laugh, but 20 years ago we sold a pony for £700. He was purchased from a lady who let him graze the verges for grand sum of £600. We sold him because I didn't have a need for him, and he scared my sister by trying to jump the fence dividing the paddocks, and she already had a pony anyway.

We made a grand sum of £100!!!

Eight years later, he was sold for £145,000, and became the number one 14.2hh jumping pony in europe!!!!!
 
He was a lovely pony, always trying to please. The lady who we purchased him from got scared of him as she really couldn't ride, bless her. He used to be called 'Gormy Stormy' as he was always grazing along the verge with an artic up his backside!!

He really could move, and I did want to keep him for endurance, but we decided to sell him as I already had my mare, and my sister was scared of him.

I think his later nickname was 'the helicopter'!!!

I wonder if he is still around?
 
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