Jeep Cherokee 2002-2007 (also posted in Club House)

rose1081 said:
http://forums.4wdmechanix.com/topic/252-jeep-kj-liberty-recall-n46—a-trailer-hitch-is-the-fix/

Someone seems to have made it work with a new towbar?!
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Hi Rose1081 - I have just updated some info on 4WDmechanix regarding a long letter I have sent to Fiat - I have my own local garage mechanic checking to see if there is any possibility of moving the fuel tank as suggested on another forum. I have also spoken to a local towing place to see if there is anything on the market that meets the required distance. (BTW I'm not from CTR - funnily enough we have the same name and my daughter has the same name as one of their reporters)
 
We bhave to keep the pressure on, just emailed Jeep customer services to let them know how disgusted I am at the treatment of Jeep owners....Got to pop hubbys car in tomorrow so will ask the garage if they can tweak the towbar or move the fuel tank...
 
I am going to try the local garage and customer services again. I have just had another look at the recall notice.

It says 'your vehicle SHOULD be inspected' not MUST be. I know that's being picky but until i get told that it must be inspected, then I am keeping the jeep away from the dealership.
 
maisie06 said:
Pleased for you Cobgoblin! Can't get the mopar one now though...still sitting tight on this, are others doing the same?
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Hi all,I took my Jeep in and it failed,had beam fitted but I brought my tow bar away.They were not happy but I pointed out it was mine.
They tied up the trailer plug and left it rubbing on the tank in a gap at the front of the tank and a cross beam,i am sure it would puncture the tank by rubbing if left.
I am waiting a few weeks then I may refit (30 mins), I worked for 35 years as a Bus Fitter and have seen lots of split tanks on buses and never seen one on fire.
I also can not see why one of the tow bar manufacturers can not knock up a bar for us to buy,not a big job and a ready made market is out there. We would loose less money than trying to sell car.Better still we try to get Fiat to pay.
 
thwingers said:
Hi all,I took my Jeep in and it failed,had beam fitted but I brought my tow bar away.They were not happy but I pointed out it was mine.
They tied up the trailer plug and left it rubbing on the tank in a gap at the front of the tank and a cross beam,i am sure it would puncture the tank by rubbing if left.
I am waiting a few weeks then I may refit (30 mins), I worked for 35 years as a Bus Fitter and have seen lots of split tanks on buses and never seen one on fire.
I also can not see why one of the tow bar manufacturers can not knock up a bar for us to buy,not a big job and a ready made market is out there. We would loose less money than trying to sell car.Better still we try to get Fiat to pay.
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So sorry that yours failed, and disgusted that they thought they could steal your tow bar.
 
thwingers said:
Hi all,I took my Jeep in and it failed,had beam fitted but I brought my tow bar away.They were not happy but I pointed out it was mine.
They tied up the trailer plug and left it rubbing on the tank in a gap at the front of the tank and a cross beam,i am sure it would puncture the tank by rubbing if left.
I am waiting a few weeks then I may refit (30 mins), I worked for 35 years as a Bus Fitter and have seen lots of split tanks on buses and never seen one on fire.
I also can not see why one of the tow bar manufacturers can not knock up a bar for us to buy,not a big job and a ready made market is out there. We would loose less money than trying to sell car.Better still we try to get Fiat to pay.
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What was the justification for keeping YOUR tow bar?
 
thwingers said:
I was told it was only scrap, what did I want it for I told them it was my business.
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Thats another reason I don't want to go anywhere near the Jeep dealers. If I believed the car was a hazard or unsafe I would not be driving it; I have enough (40 years +) engineering experience to make that decision for myself. I really resent having to destroy something which really is mechanically sound.
I thought of getting the modification done and replacing the tow bar like thwingers, but why do I have too?
There really is nothing wrong with it.
 
malcbw said:
Thats another reason I don't want to go anywhere near the Jeep dealers. If I believed the car was a hazard or unsafe I would not be driving it; I have enough (40 years +) engineering experience to make that decision for myself. I really resent having to destroy something which really is mechanically sound.
I thought of getting the modification done and replacing the tow bar like thwingers, but why do I have too?
There really is nothing wrong with it.
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I have another reason to stay clear of Jordans Hull my local garage took one through for a lady,they left the tail pipe swinging about off the mounts and the silencer broke.
The bar they fitted is about 60mm off the tank,but most tow bars are far heavier duty so how do they know that a bar fixed at 40mm is not as strong or stronger.
How about blocking off the forecourts of dealerships and getting some media coverage.
 
I don't know if this has already been covered but there is a US tow bar available which does not currently have European type approval. But for those of you who have contacts in the US, it might be an option, maybe?

The whole thing sounds disastrous for jeep owners who want to tow :'(
 
cptrayes, Unfortunately the following information has come to light on another 4x4 forum regarding the recall:

"As of the 1st of August 1998 all Passenger Carrying Vehicles up to 3500 kg Gross Vehicle Weight (M1 Vehicles) can only be fitted with European Type Approved towbars if the vehicle has received European Whole Vehicle Type Approval. Non M1 vehicles, Light Commercial Vehicles and private imports from outside the EEC are not required to use Approved Towbars.

The Liberty, Patriot, and Cherokee have never been tested, and have not received (ECWVTA) certification. This is a direct quote from the article when they discussed the Patriot, Despite being launched here in 2007, the Patriot has never been tested. The aging offering is set for replacement by a new compact SUV that will fill the role of both the Patriot and its edgier Compass sibling from 2016. Later in the article they also mention the Cherokee and Liberty as not being certified either.

I may be understanding this wrong, but, if I am understanding it right, because those Jeep models have never received the certification, then under European law, they cant be fitted with a towbar of any kind, which is why the recall doesn't allow for it in Europe."

Therefore Fiat (they now own Jeep) are basically saying 'go forth and multiply' 'tough luck'. With 33,000 vehicles being recalled in the UK and a lot of them fitted with towbars (some fitted at Jeep dealerships - as mine was) it is a total fiasco. I will await the response from Fiat to my very long letter and then make a decision.
 
Hi I'm new to the forum and I have found myself in the same situation.

I use my Jeep Renegade for towing a caravan, so like everyone else the car was purchased for this job in mind and nothing else. My Jeep went into the garage in Norwich on Monday and I was told my Brink tow bar failed the test and needed to be removed or I had to sign the dreaded disclaimer. (I hadn't seen all this before I took the trip)

I told the service receptionist that the car was needed for towing etc and his reply was that my insurance wouldn't be affected in any way by signing the disclaimer to say I wanted to keep the tow bar. It just meant that Jeep wouldn't be responsible if the car suffered a fuel tank puncture due to rear end collision.

I have just been on to my insurance (Directline) and gone through the whole situation and they have said my insurance is still 100% fine by signing the disclaimer. I am awaiting written confirmation of this from the manager.

Craig
 
I spoke to my insurer who said they wouldnt offer to renew with waiver signed / or a towbar still in place as Jeep are not Recommending any towbars. I've shared with her the recall details on what passes and will see if i can work on the different towbar/ fuel tank moving which has passed for other people. It's going to cost me money, but less than trying to buy a new tow car

I'm on several forums. Everyone sounds a bit dispondent and pissed off.

I'm just not sure what to do for the best. Everyone has a slightly different story from the insurers it seems. Jeep shouldn't be saying it's no problem though if at least 3 insurance companies have issue with it!
 
I'm gutted my insurance company (AXA) refused to continue insurance with a signed waiver when others are. This would have been my preferred course of action as a temporary fix, but of course still far from ideal!! I'm alternating between being hopeful that somebody will come up with a new tow bar as a fix, and complete despair! But it is so nice to hear everyone's experiences on here.
 
Craig

I was unaware that the Renegade was affected, did you have a recall notice. According to VOSA only Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees are affected. I would be interested to know whether your recall was N46. It would seem that some, though not all insurers are being sensible. We can only hope that the powers that be come to their senses and sort this out soon. I am on several forums and whilst many of us are currently 'taking the high road' to give Fiat a chance to sort this out amicably for everyone involved, many of us are of the view that unless some sort of sensible option is given (i.e. supply of an alternative towbar, or installation of a 'skid pan' to protect the fuel tank) then I am afraid that many of us will have to take a more aggressive course of action. Only time will tell and unfortunately that is not on our side given that most of us need our vehicles to tow on a regular basis. Once I have received a reply from Fiat I will update you.
 
Interesting document on the American equivalent of VOSA (NHTSA)

Date Investigation Opened: JUN 12, 2012
Date Investigation Closed: NOV 14, 2014
NHTSA Action Number: EA12005
Component(s): FUEL SYSTEM, GASOLINE
All Products Associated with this Investigation expand
Details close
756 Associated Documents expand
Manufacturer: Chrysler Group LLC
SUMMARY:
ODI has completed an extensive analysis of rear crash fuel tank system integrity data for the subject Jeep Cherokee, Grand Cherokee and Liberty vehicles (SVs). As of June 2013, ODI knew of 56 post-collision fatal fires, 28 non-fatal fires, and 6 fuel leak incidents (totaling 90 incidents, 75 fatalities and 58 injuries) involving the SVs. Based on this analysis, ODI issued a Recall Request Letter (RRL) on June 3, 2013 requesting that Chrysler recall the Grand Cherokee and Liberty vehicles due to the rate of fatal, non-fatal fire, and fuel leak incidents when compared to peer vehicles (compact and medium SUVs) built during the same time period. In the RRL, ODI described how the location of the aft-mounted fuel tank made the SVs vulnerable to rear impact crash fuel tank failures. During the analysis, besides the high speed/high severity crashes present in both the SV and peer vehicles, ODI observed a significant number of low and moderate speed rear impact crash related fires and leaks, particularly in the Liberty. The data also demonstrated that SVs originally equipped with towing hitch receivers (trailer hitches) appeared to be under-represented in rear-impact related fuel tank failures. In the RRL, ODI requested that Chrysler provide its response by June 18, 2013, otherwise NHTSA might proceed to an Initial Decision that the SVs contain a safety-related defect. Chrysler responded to the RRL on June 4, 2013 and vigorously disputed the tentative findings of the RRL. Among other things, Chrysler argued that the SVs had an overall safety record superior to their peers, met or exceeded all applicable federal motor vehicle safety standards (FMVSS) and only experienced fires in severe high energy rear impacts. Nonetheless, while continuing to maintain that the SVs did not contain a safety-related defect, Chrysler proposed a recall (13V-252) of approximately 2.5M (1.6M currently registered) model year (MY) 1993 - 1998 Grand Cherokee (ZJ) and MY 2002-2007 Liberty (KJ) vehicles on June 18, 2013. The recall remedy submitted by Chrysler would employ a hitch receiver assembly consisting of a steel cross-member behind the fuel tank with forward-projecting arms bolted to the frame rails on either side of the fuel tank. For the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee, Chrysler indicated it would conduct a customer satisfaction campaign and inspect vehicles equipped with aftermarket tow hitch receivers, and if necessary, replace any such hitch receivers whose condition may increase the risk of fuel system failure in rear crashes. Examination of the available data established that the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee did not pose the same magnitude of safety risk as the MY 1993 - 1998 Grand Cherokee and MY 2002-2007 Liberty, particularly in low and moderate speed rear impacts. Because the agency has concluded that the vehicles do not present an unreasonable risk to safety, ODI is closing its investigation of the MY 1999 - 2004 Grand Cherokee. Although it was not within the scope of the Petition initiating this investigation or the Preliminary Evaluation preceding this EA, ODI also examined the performance of the MY 1993 - 2001 Cherokee as part of this investigation. NHTSA's assessment of the available data for the Cherokee did not establish an unreasonable risk in comparison to peer vehicles. ODI does not approve proposed defect remedies. While offering to install hitch receiver assemblies on the MY 1993-1998 Grand Cherokees and 2002-2007 Liberty, Chrysler did not, in ODI's view, provide enough evidence demonstrating the effectiveness of the proposed remedy in rear impacts. The Complete Summary for this Closing Resume (EA12-005) can be seen by opening the following document: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/cs/jaxrs/download/doc/UCM466679/INCLA-EA12005-9765.PDF


I have asked on an American 4x4 forum whether this applies to DIESEL vehicles.
 
Clannad48 said:
Craig

I was unaware that the Renegade was affected, did you have a recall notice. According to VOSA only Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees are affected. I would be interested to know whether your recall was N46. It would seem that some, though not all insurers are being sensible. We can only hope that the powers that be come to their senses and sort this out soon. I am on several forums and whilst many of us are currently 'taking the high road' to give Fiat a chance to sort this out amicably for everyone involved, many of us are of the view that unless some sort of sensible option is given (i.e. supply of an alternative towbar, or installation of a 'skid pan' to protect the fuel tank) then I am afraid that many of us will have to take a more aggressive course of action. Only time will tell and unfortunately that is not on our side given that most of us need our vehicles to tow on a regular basis. Once I have received a reply from Fiat I will update you.
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Hi, I think norfolkminis Renegade could be like mine. A Cherokee kj but a slightly different model with a bit of extra kit like driving lights/roof lights, a flat bonnet above the headlights. They made them in a small number and gave them the name "Renegade" but unfortunately not the ability to tow..........
 
Renney said:
Hi, I think norfolkminis Renegade could be like mine. A Cherokee kj but a slightly different model with a bit of extra kit like driving lights/roof lights, a flat bonnet above the headlights. They made them in a small number and gave them the name "Renegade" but unfortunately not the ability to tow..........
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Yes its the Cherokee KJ 2005.

As I say I went through the issue with the operator at Directline who then asked her manager and the reply was yes we will still insure you. I said that a few other insurers had issues and I'm getting it confirmed in writing. I wasn't planning on towing till the new year but I may just remove the bar and chop the car in. Gutting as I have only had the car since May.

There just isn't any 4x4's jumping out at me at the moment that match my needs.
 
I may have to chop mine in too...I wanted a Terrano originally but couldn't find a good one less than 200 miles away, I have had mine since july and I'm gutted as I had the towbar fitted 3 weeks before the recall (I always have bad luck) I am going to get nothing for it on PX so am considering scrapping mine and will have to get rid of the trailer too and have a cheap runabout until I have saved enough for a new towing car...I am disgusted at the way we have been treated and I am keeping mine away from the dealers until the MOT expires or I get word from the insurance company...
 
Clannad48 - somewhere on my travels around American jeep forums someone stated that jeep claimed it didn't sell any diesel liberties in the US. That document clearly refers to gasoline only. Does anyone know if there have been ANY fires with diesel vehicles?
 
Having had numerous problems with a Jeep Cherokee we had some years ago, I wouldn't touch one with a bargepole for towing. The rubbish we were told was absolute lies - we knew this as we had a friend who was a Jeep dealer.

However I digress - if Direct Line are happy to insure them then you could change your insurance company.

What a shoddy way to treat people, at least it's good this is getting out and giving them lots of bad publicity.
 
cobgoblin said:
Clannad48 - somewhere on my travels around American jeep forums someone stated that jeep claimed it didn't sell any diesel liberties in the US. That document clearly refers to gasoline only. Does anyone know if there have been ANY fires with diesel vehicles?
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Our model of Cherokee was never available in the US as a diesel so there will be no stats to prove or disprove this.

Reason I know they never did diesel was I had a contact who used to have a weekly container shipment between the U.S. and here. He looked getting cheaper parts for me over there & ship for free but the bits I wanted were European sourced only due to being for a Diesel engine.
 
Puddleduck said:
Our model of Cherokee was never available in the US as a diesel so there will be no stats to prove or disprove this.

Reason I know they never did diesel was I had a contact who used to have a weekly container shipment between the U.S. and here. He looked getting cheaper parts for me over there & ship for free but the bits I wanted were European sourced only due to being for a Diesel engine.
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On a similar note, the document tested the ZJ Grand cherokee (petrol) and made no mention of the ZG grand cherokee (diesel) which I have. Again parts (diesel related) have been hard to source.
 
The fact that the majority of Jeep cars in the UK are diesel is one of the questions I have sent to Fiat, as yet there has been no response. I amalso in contact with some people in the US who agree that the recall only mentions 'gasoline' and that in their opinion does not include diesel models. It was also raised that in one sentence it refers to the fact that vehicles with tow hitches are 'under-represented' in the fire statistics. I believe that Fiat are just trying to cover themselves against all eventualities. I could find no accident reports regarding Jeep fires in the UK. Does anyone know of any. BTW I am fully aware of the possible tragedy that could occur in the event of a rear-ender but feel that a little bit of commonsense should have been applied before issuing the recall. I sadly think that we willhave to 'wait and see' what Fiat come up with, although time is on their side, not ours.

Does anyone here have or know of a petrol Cherokee???
 
Just been chatting to my Dad about this fiasco. His view was it could be time to speak to a solicitor and get a letter off to Jeep using the evidence and information on this thread.
I've legal assistance on either my car or home insurance, can't remember which and not home at the moment to check. Am definitely going to see if I can put it to use for this.
 
Puddleduck, I have already spoken to a solicitor via the AA legal department (Gold Member) his response was that we have to be seen to give Fiat a 'reasonable time' to answer all the questions and to offer an alternative solution. Mind you he had no definition of 'reasonable time' I sent a final letter to Fiat on the 26th November (recorded delivery) with comments and questions, one of which was to ask for a timeline.
 
Clannad48 said:
The fact that the majority of Jeep cars in the UK are diesel is one of the questions I have sent to Fiat, as yet there has been no response. I amalso in contact with some people in the US who agree that the recall only mentions 'gasoline' and that in their opinion does not include diesel models. It was also raised that in one sentence it refers to the fact that vehicles with tow hitches are 'under-represented' in the fire statistics. I believe that Fiat are just trying to cover themselves against all eventualities. I could find no accident reports regarding Jeep fires in the UK. Does anyone know of any. BTW I am fully aware of the possible tragedy that could occur in the event of a rear-ender but feel that a little bit of commonsense should have been applied before issuing the recall. I sadly think that we willhave to 'wait and see' what Fiat come up with, although time is on their side, not ours.

Does anyone here have or know of a petrol Cherokee???
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They did two the best is the 3.7 V6 but eats auto gear boxes.
From what i read their hands are tied by the fact the tow bar that can be used are not E.U. speck,that old chestnut.I bet the French are rushing to change their`s. Last time i was over there they were still smoking behind the bar.Do you think they would fit one in the States that was no good.
As far as i`m concerned they can stick their E.U.and let me get on fetching logs, feeds etc.
And as a thought; Today i pulled my trailer with a series Land Rover.
Land Rover 1 Jeep 0
Wish they were still British.
 
I went back in to my stealership today for a copy of disclaimer for my records and they were totally unware of any insurance issues this is causing but said they are amazed at how badly Jeep UK have handled this recall.

I signed my disclaimer, but have been told that I can have the work done to remove the tow bar if I want or have insurance issues. He also mentioned about moving the tank or slotting the holes for the bar! I'm going to have a look tomorrow at my clearance. (I believe mine has approx 41mm gap) Apparenlty one truck came in and the towbar was touching the tank!!
 
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