jogging on the way home WWYD

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oldie48

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So, Mr B has been a reformed character of late, carrying a whip, keeping him in front of the leg and dealing quickly with his annoying "head waving" when we are nearing home, has pretty much stopped his silliness. However, I hacked out to meet a friend yesterday, had to wait for 10 minutes at our meeting place then realised that she wasn't coming so went round the block and came home. As soon as we turned towards home, Mr B started to jog, no silly head waving, I just could not get him to walk properly and he was winding himself up to the point I was struggling a bit. I got off (don't usually) as we were becoming a traffic hazard and marched him home, went into the school and worked him hard in the pouring rain. Today I set off on exactly the same route, having decided to turn him back every time he started to jog but he was fine, he actually slowed down as we approached home and he walked very quietly up the drive. He got a pat and I didn't take him into the school. Question is, would you keep hacking and schooling separate so you can use the schooling if he plays up on the way home. He's a clever horse and clearly made the connection between being silly on the way home and having to work when he got back. I'm just a bit unsure the reason for asking is he schooled very well indeed yesterday and I rather like the idea of a short hack followed by a short schooling session. your thoughts appreciated!
 
when you say turn for home do you mean - actually turn on one spot for home or on your route he gets to a point which he knows he is on the way home?

when my horse is getting fit I prefer to school first and then use a hack as my cool down, its not a bimble by any means but it means she's not fresh out on the hack and a lot less spooky!

I also have limited routes but I try to mix it up as much as possible so that she doesn't become used to it.

I have to say she is feeling very well in herself at the moment!

Edited to say - if I had gotten off during hack I would have done the same, got home, gotten back on and schooled for a bit
 
When my mare started to jog on the way home, every time she jogged I turned her in a circle and then started walking again. It did not take her long to realise that if she jogged she turned a circle and was not getting her own way. She only did it on a couple of rides, I believe she was getting stressed as her eye sight was failing (not suggesting thats your case, just saying it was why mine was stressed) and she wanted to get back to her herd.

and yes it took a while to get home but was worth it in the long term
 
I only do circular routes, some are longer than others but I never turn him round.
He's rather an anxious horse so I am careful not to let him get wound up or he stops listening, I think he's anxious to get home but he's so much better than he used to be. the question really is, would you school or not when he's been sensible coming home. I feel I know how to cope with his silliness, I've had him a couple of years now so he's very much a known quantity.
 
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All the good things in life are at home, so he is keen to get to them. Change his perception - put him to work when you get home. If he settles before he gets there, don't reinforce the jog jogging by allowing him to - push him on, trot home and then go and do some circles and serpentines in the school. Don't feed him straight away, or get off and untack him straight away, or let him chill until he has done some work. Worked well for a really busy mare we had here
 
Thanks that makes sense to me!
JillA said:
All the good things in life are at home, so he is keen to get to them. Change his perception - put him to work when you get home. If he settles before he gets there, don't reinforce the jog jogging by allowing him to - push him on, trot home and then go and do some circles and serpentines in the school. Don't feed him straight away, or get off and untack him straight away, or let him chill until he has done some work. Worked well for a really busy mare we had here
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Do you have a short circular route close to home? This worked for my old boy. We have a short circular route that takes about 10 minutes to get round. When he started jogging on the way home, he didn't get to go up the drive, he was made to carry on and do the 10 minute circular route. The first time, we did 4 circles before he either got the idea or was so confused he didn't know which way was home or so tired he didn't have the energy to jog! After that we never needed more than 1 circle. If you don't have a route like that I'd make him work in the school when he's jogged. If he's good I'd be less strict about going into the school, although if it was part of my plan for the day I'd still do it.
 
Thanks I do have a short route, I'll try that next time he jogs. I've tried going past the gate and turning back etc but it just winds him up!
annagain said:
Do you have a short circular route close to home? This worked for my old boy. We have a short circular route that takes about 10 minutes to get round. When he started jogging on the way home, he didn't get to go up the drive, he was made to carry on and do the 10 minute circular route. The first time, we did 4 circles before he either got the idea or was so confused he didn't know which way was home or so tired he didn't have the energy to jog! After that we never needed more than 1 circle. If you don't have a route like that I'd make him work in the school when he's jogged. If he's good I'd be less strict about going into the school, although if it was part of my plan for the day I'd still do it.
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annagain said:
Do you have a short circular route close to home? This worked for my old boy. We have a short circular route that takes about 10 minutes to get round. When he started jogging on the way home, he didn't get to go up the drive, he was made to carry on and do the 10 minute circular route. The first time, we did 4 circles before he either got the idea or was so confused he didn't know which way was home or so tired he didn't have the energy to jog! After that we never needed more than 1 circle. If you don't have a route like that I'd make him work in the school when he's jogged. If he's good I'd be less strict about going into the school, although if it was part of my plan for the day I'd still do it.
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This is what I do too, jogging drives me batty and this sorts them out in no time!

Would also add as soon as they start to jog, if they ignore request to walk, I send forward into a working trot, maybe add some leg yields, shoulder in that sort of thing, when I feel they want to walk I'll keep the trot for another couple of mins then ask for walk. Even one single step in jog then results in working trot all the way home, straight past home, then once we are past any potential for napping through the yard gate I ask for walk. A step of jogging and it's back to trot all the way past home again (this time on that small circular route) repeat as necessary.

It isn't long before you are walking towards home on a long rein although exact amount of time depends on how stubborn your particular pone is but the key is always to be that tiny bit more stubborn than them :)
 
My Arab had a real problem jogging home as he knew that was where his herd was and got excited. Non the less it's rude lol! Holding on to him makes it far worse. The thing that has consistently worked is after a command WALK and light half halt, if he doesn't comply, he has to back up several paces. To start with I had to do this 5 or 6 times until he realised I really meant the command WALK. Now he normally does what he's told first time. Everyone and then he might need backing up once . He doesn't like backing up so for him jogging becomes more hassle than its worth x
 
As others have said, when he jogs, push him on into a proper trot and take him past home. I think taking them past home is the key, because the jogging is a form of napping back home in my eyes, so taking them past home shows them that their jogging will not mean they get home quicker. And if needs be, take him on the circular ride you've just been on again if you can, or a shorter circular as others have suggested, but DO NOT turn back on yourself for home.

I cannot abide by this sort of thing and I've been known to take a horse around the same 4 mile block we've just been on if they mess around on the way back to the yard.
 
Sukistokes2 said:
When my mare started to jog on the way home, every time she jogged I turned her in a circle and then started walking again. It did not take her long to realise that if she jogged she turned a circle and was not getting her own way. and yes it took a while to get home but was worth it in the long term
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I agree, the turn a circle method worked for me!
 
None of the above worked for me with my mare. She would get her knickers in a massive proverbial twist and all you could do was sit really quietly and not react. I found I had to ensure she didn't reach the point in the first place. I did try the whole turn around, stopping etc etc but it just wound her up more. It wasn't so much that she was heading for home, it was more that she had wound herself upto such a degree before hand. Hacked out with a friend on her (who was a very very good rider) on the basis that Madame would be a nice change from all her green baby horses. Mare got incredibly excited and passaged all the way home, dripping with sweat with my friend literally dropping her reins. My mare obviously thought that we were going to do something more interesting, like hunting or XC...
 
I've decided to take him in the school every time he rushes to work him. Like your mare, he's pretty sensitive and gets himself wound up quite easily then he just stops listening. It's not a major problem as it only starts when we are close to home but I dont like it and am determined to stop his silly behaviour if I can.
Luci07 said:
None of the above worked for me with my mare. She would get her knickers in a massive proverbial twist and all you could do was sit really quietly and not react. I found I had to ensure she didn't reach the point in the first place. I did try the whole turn around, stopping etc etc but it just wound her up more. It wasn't so much that she was heading for home, it was more that she had wound herself upto such a degree before hand. Hacked out with a friend on her (who was a very very good rider) on the basis that Madame would be a nice change from all her green baby horses. Mare got incredibly excited and passaged all the way home, dripping with sweat with my friend literally dropping her reins. My mare obviously thought that we were going to do something more interesting, like hunting or XC...
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marmalade88 said:
I agree, the turn a circle method worked for me!
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me too, as we turned - ben would start to walk, I would praise him the second he did, I still have to do it now when he gets a bit upity wanting to canter and I will insist that we start our canter in a different spot (even if I had planned a canter) or not at all, first he must relax and walk. As much as he is enthusiastic and I love him for that, he must listen to me and allow me to control the pace.
 
oldie48 said:
I've decided to take him in the school every time he rushes to work him. Like your mare, he's pretty sensitive and gets himself wound up quite easily then he just stops listening. It's not a major problem as it only starts when we are close to home but I dont like it and am determined to stop his silly behaviour if I can.
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its a very fine line with the circle technique, it certainly can wind them up and does to begin with, the key with ben (I found) was not to just use circling as a method, but to use it as a tool to get the message across, as he circled.. he would break into walk - immediately he would get praise. As he kicked into jog - the only reaction I made was to circle - no telling off, no tension, just ignore and circle, cue a couple of walk strides and immediate scratch on the neck and praise ... it can take a while but it does work. My first pony had done it all his life, and this was not something that could be rectified, but it made me damned sure I would not allow any horse of mine to develop such behavior.
 
IME circling does wind them up, as does pushing them on past the gate to another circuit - the brakes go on, napping is the order of the day and they start to think about rearing. Working when they get home avoids all those confrontations.
 
Luci07 said:
None of the above worked for me with my mare. She would get her knickers in a massive proverbial twist and all you could do was sit really quietly and not react. I found I had to ensure she didn't reach the point in the first place. I did try the whole turn around, stopping etc etc but it just wound her up more. It wasn't so much that she was heading for home, it was more that she had wound herself upto such a degree before hand. Hacked out with a friend on her (who was a very very good rider) on the basis that Madame would be a nice change from all her green baby horses. Mare got incredibly excited and passaged all the way home, dripping with sweat with my friend literally dropping her reins. My mare obviously thought that we were going to do something more interesting, like hunting or XC...
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My boy was exactly the same. He was a Blue Cross rescue case of which I got him when he was 13 and always got so wound up he would just jog and get himself in a complete state. He is now 23 and no longer ridden as he just gets so stressed from it and ends up absolutely dripping with sweat and puffing, no matter how tired he is he just will keep going despite me even just us going for a short walk and ignoring him. It's a real shame but some of them just cant switch once they have got wound up.

Put me off having a jogger for life! He was amazing at everything else back in the day though so im ok with him being retired if he cant cope with it as he gave me his all for many years :).
 
JillA said:
IME circling does wind them up, as does pushing them on past the gate to another circuit - the brakes go on, napping is the order of the day and they start to think about rearing. Working when they get home avoids all those confrontations.
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I think that is a bit of a blanket statement, circling can be a very useful and effective tool, but it has to be appropriate and clear, immediate as they jog and even a split second of relaxation - praise. This sends a very clear message and helps them understand what is required. It can and does work very well although not for all horses and not for all riders.

Working when they get home, may benefit some, but I think that its a far less clear message to them. For a start - how are they supposed to associate that work at home is as a result of jogging that may have started 20 mins before? It makes no sense. Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick but it seems that you are suggesting taking them in to the school for extra work as a reprimand for behaviour that happened out on the hack. I want my horses to enjoy going in the school, to be responsive and relaxed in there. Using the school as a method for reprimand is IMO more likely to make them resent school work and do nothing to change their jogging.
 
We don't have very good circular routes where we hack/and go out and along the same lane each way. With naughty horses that are naughty on the way home the minute they start doing whatever they get turned around and walk away from home again until they settle, they get a pat, few more strides then we turn back for home again and repeat until they get the message - hasn't taken many that long to work it out!
 
Queenbee said:
Working when they get home, may benefit some, but I think that its a far less clear message to them. For a start - how are they supposed to associate that work at home is as a result of jogging that may have started 20 mins before? It makes no sense. Forgive me if I have the wrong end of the stick but it seems that you are suggesting taking them in to the school for extra work as a reprimand for behaviour that happened out on the hack. I want my horses to enjoy going in the school, to be responsive and relaxed in there. Using the school as a method for reprimand is IMO more likely to make them resent school work and do nothing to change their jogging.
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It changes their perception of getting home = end of work, rest and relaxation, food, which is what they are rushing towards. It isn't a reinforcer as such, it is difficult to reinforce if they aren't about to offer the behaviour you want (relaxed walk).
 
JillA said:
It changes their perception of getting home = end of work, rest and relaxation, food, which is what they are rushing towards. It isn't a reinforcer as such, it is difficult to reinforce if they aren't about to offer the behaviour you want (relaxed walk).
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Whilst I understand your point, I believe that enjoyment of schooling is important for horses and so to encourage them to be reluctant to end their return home due to work in the school would dampen their enthusiasm for school work in general. I use variety as standard, but more to benefit the horse as opposed to switch them off. I often use hacking and schooling together, a short warm up hack, into the school which means we can go straight into work proper as opposed to 'boring warm up' ;) then a 10 min cool down walk. Or a hack then school and cool down in the school... sometimes we go straight into the school, sometime we just hack, sometimes we warm up and school then hack to cool down...

But if my standard practice was hack then straight to the school, knowing my boy - it would affect any schooling work we did. He is not an anxious jogger, rather an enthusiastic one, as in 'oh its canter time' or 'oh the fun stream is up ahead - lets get there fast' Having owned a jogger before - this is a 'no way in hell' for me! I think though that whatever tactic you use, one of the key things is to relax yourself, jogging is a pain in the butt and many people therefore get tense and frustrated - this tension goes straight to the horse and compounds the situation. Of course I also recognise that circling must be not only timely and correctly implemented but that also it must be consistent, and if you are on a road with traffic coming... circling your horse may not always be possible... but I find it far more effective to work on the behaviour the second it presents (again I repeat, if the rider is tense then circling is a pointless exercise), than changing the horses attitude to hacking or even schooling in general.

Every horse is of course different, as is every rider - but circling has worked for me and the beast. But then with him, he is a ****** and if he got away with jogging once - he would be a nightmare the second time and very quickly it would become a big issue
 
The only way to stop Flame jogging sideways all the way home was to go faster on purpose. She did improve in general with lots of regular, relaxed, ploddy hacking alone rather than in company but if she started hotting up the only thing I could do was ride more forward.
 
Well thanks for all your replies, I've stuck to my original idea of working him when I get home if he rushes and it's worked like a charm and hasn't spoiled his enthusiasm for schooling. He came home today very sensibly in a lovely relaxed forward walk and stood at the bottom of the drive on a loose rein for several minutes before walking the final bit home.
 
Well with a bright horse you sort one thing and something else crops up. He didn't initially make the connection between hacking on his own and in company so I had to show him the two situations were the same. I think we underestimate a horses ability to learn and process, I could be fooling myself but I could almost hear him thinking out loud and working out what to do. I am very lucky in that I have a horse that really wants to please and totally blame myself for allowing this behaviour to escalate, fortunately I feel we have turned a corner, one of many since he came to live with me!
JillA said:
Well done, great that you have got it sorted
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I have always found that if they want to jog home, putting them into trot and keeping it going when they want to walk - even for a few times - soon sorts them out. However, I have heavies so a jog is really a walk with a knee-lift
 
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