Join up!!Where can you do it

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Missladypotter

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Hi,
I am really interested in alternative methods eg.Bach flower remedies,Monty Roberts. I would love to try Join-up to strengthen my bond with my mare.I have tried it before but I have had a few problems.The first being I don't have an arena only my paddock!!The second being she comes into me when I am sending her away but not in a friendly I want to be with you way but more a I am fed up with you:mad: attitude! I really want to join up with her!! Where else is suitable to do it ??
For those of you who are not familiar with join up here is a link!!!!
Thanks,
Miss L.P;)
 
Hi Miss LP. Join up is only part of the story and not necessarily the beginning. Any area is suitable for join up. Are you saying your horse is aggressive towards you? or, is she herding you. Does she follow you like a dog in the pasture?. When you send her away what equipment (if any) are you using and what signals are you using. Are you in the habit of giving her treats?
 
It's easier in a smaller area, but as long as your paddock is not too big and you aren't worried the horse will jump out that should be achievable. I know monty uses a rope, but a lunge whip works just as well, and if you have a horse running at you I would definitely use that instead as it's easier to deflect an approaching horse. Use your stick and never let the horse come in to you until it is listening to you and moving respectfully on the circle you want. When you do let the horse come in to you it should already be in walk and should approach you slowly. If it rushes at you immediately send it out again, as that is not join up and is really dangerous.
 
Dave the dog she is not aggressive just more she couldn't be bothered and has better things to be doing,on one occasion she did become very aggressive with me and reared up in front of me!!
 
Can I be cheeky and ask if maybe she does think she has better things to be doing? :p

Are there any instructors near you that do work in such a direction, and that could come see what you're actually doing, and how your body language might be improved? It could also be someone experienced in loose schooling, not just a MR specialist.
 
ok, The people that use natural horsemanship training techniques make it look very easy, it is not. To be successful you have to think and act like a horse and read and react quicker to the horses signals this takes years of experience. You can go to classes to learn it and still be frustrated even with something so apparently basic as join up. On the ground whilst directing a horse at close quarters you are in the most vulnerable position, Most horse owners would only maneuver their horses in such a way from the relative safety of the saddle.
Your horse reared because she had no escape from her predicament or her frustration and was forced to confront you. Being into alternative methods is laudable but, you cant do this stuff with a stick and a carrot and a bit of string. Now your horse has frightened you and has proved her dominance your job has become harder. My best advice is read a lot of books on horse psychology, bio mechanics and natural horsemanship. Watch videos of Walter Schiller, the appalling Rick Gore, Alice Battle and read read and read, then if your pocket allows go on a Monty Roberts type course and please don't die for the sake of being spiritually one with your horse .
 
spookypony said:
Can I be cheeky and ask if maybe she does think she has better things to be doing? :p

Are there any instructors near you that do work in such a direction, and that could come see what you're actually doing, and how your body language might be improved? It could also be someone experienced in loose schooling, not just a MR specialist.
Click to expand...

She probably does but I just wish she would want to be with me rather then be forced into it:). I think it may just be in her nature. I am looking into it but I doubt there would be any locally!:(
Thanks.
 
Read the section on how to free lunge: http://intheequinemind.blogspot.co.uk/2015_08_01_archive.html It'll have exactly the same effect as "join-up" which is just a gimmicky term for the same technique. It instils respect and trust. In my opinion, it's very easy to do once you know what you're doing - but you cannot just get intimidated and give up. If you still can't do it by following the instructions there, you need to get an instructor to help you with groundwork. You need to be a lot tougher and clearer than you are currently being.
 
Hi Barnacle. I think that this subject is very interesting. I read the link you posted, It's very clear and concise, thank you. These 'personal ' techniques are great learning aids for horse and rider and bring a more fluid approach to being responsible for a horse and understanding the business of horsemanship. This forum is widely read and I am surprised at the very few posts. (holiday season not withstanding) Your thoughts on this please.
 
I found the blog post was a justification of failure on the part of the blogger. If she didn't recognize the potential for damage in the early stages she either wasn't doing it correctly or was using a system not suited to herself or her horse. The analogy of horse and child is always suspect and simplistic. There are many NH systems out there and perhaps therein lies the problem, system. A dogged approach to to training all and every horse has to be flawed. An open minded, holistic, if you will, attitude will facilitate the intellectual desires of the rider and salve the disruption of the survival instincts of the horse whilst being trained. Possibly one of the least understood facets of NH is the reinforcement of relationship. This takes time that few of us have ergo, NH techniques are doomed to fail in the casual human horse engagement of the modern world. Horse whispering by the way comes from the 'capturing' for want of a better word, techniques used by North American plains Indians and was not at all vocal. I think perhaps a bit of traditional and a bit of ancient will become the norm for horse training, ratio dependent on personality's. Also, I would suggest that there is a clear hierarchy in herd behaviour centered around the control of feet or space, one of the basic tenants of NH and traditional horse training.
 
Dave the dog said:
Also, I would suggest that there is a clear hierarchy in herd behaviour centered around the control of feet or space, one of the basic tenants of NH and traditional horse training.
Click to expand...
Indeed it is a basic tenet of NH. I don't think there is much good evidence that it's anything like as important as many NH practitioners suppose and teach though. It looks to me like everything that NH trainers do, the successes and the failures, can be explained by basic learning theory. In my view the stuff about dominance is at best a distraction and at worst an excuse for treating the horse harshly.
 
I liked that blog a lot. However, I do think it contains a number of fundamental misunderstandings (even though the broad conclusion seems accurate). I'm not going to go into it as I intend to write a blog post on NH myself at some point and will save my thoughts for then. As someone who actually studies animal behaviour professionally but who is also an equestrian, I can see the mistakes in understanding that occur when NH people encounter scientific concepts concerning behaviour and vice versa... And the number of people with a cursory interest in behaviour who get the scientific ideas subtly but crucially wrong is also great. I do get very irritated by some of the NH rhetoric, suffice it to say. On the other hand, plenty of NH techniques do work if done a particular way.
 
Agreed. Dominance is a phenomenon that surely is reserved for the carnivore. Having observed on a regular basis a small group of horses of mixed age and gender there is an acceptance of roll and possibly duty that is thrust upon some individuals by others that is not necessarily consistent on a day to day basis. There seems to be an acquiescence of position within the herd, demonstrated by an individual, or group instruction towards an individual resulting in a displacement outside of the pattern of grazing. If the basic tenant of NH is to emulate this persuasive behavior then It can't be faulted. However, When a challenge is perceived the NH falls back on the resource of the bully, something that is not tolerated, or is circumnavigated within the herd. Is it possible to train more than one horse at a time?
 
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