Join up

[WelshGal]

Hi, just wondering if anyone has used join up before?

A bit of back ground - i have a welsh pony i brought who was hardly handled. Now ive had him about 2 years. He was 6 months old when i got him and i had him castrated last winter. Ive done some ground work such as hoof timming, leading, traffic training and hes had a rubber bit in his mouth. Hes been lunged and lon reined too. Since he got castrated hes been really wary of people, he will come up to you and you can catch him if you just give him a bit of time and once you have caught him you can take the headcollar off and put it on without a problem providing you dnt leave him for more than 10 mins. But now i want to start some other training with him, saddles and the bridle more. But i feel like he wants to learn (and hes being naughty abit - but thats due to needing his brain exercised) but hes not ready because he doesnt quite trust me enough. I want to build that bond with him.

Ive studied animal behaviour and more specifically horse behaviour. I have followed monty roberts since i was young and have always wanted to try join up but never had anywhere to do it. Now i have a feild, but i can take him into a bit which is seperate from the others he lives with. I want to try it, but will have to do it on the lunge - which tho not ideal is all i have. and i think this is just what he needs.

Basically just wanted to know if anyone had done it before and if anyone had done it on a lunge line. Any help would be great. x

 

[Oberon]

I'm not sure if dabbling in join up with a worried horse is a good idea. I don't think it works on a lunge line.

Unless you wish to get an RA to come and help you, it might be best to just take the slow and steady approach to building your relationship.

 

[forestfantasy]

Agree with this ^^
I think you just need time.
I'd try and spend time with him everyday, grooming, some work & general faffing!
I rescued my Sec A and he was terrified of people, i now have a very friendly, happy pony that you can do anything with.

Theres no rush, you'll get there

 

[ROANYGIRL]

HI I WAS IN THE SAME SITUATION, I USED THE LONGEST ELECTRIC FENCING POSTS AND MADE A NICE SIZE CIRCLE, I THEN LUNGE MY HORSE TILL IT WAS USED TO IT,, THEN FREE LUNGED THEN STARTED TO DO JOIN UP, WORKED A TREAT, HOPE THIS HELPS.

 

[Achinghips]

Yes, it's child's play to do, really... and if you don't have a round pen, easily achievable on the lunge. Look on Youtube, loads of videos on there showing how it's done. It helps the horse develop trust with you and I have found it works well

 

[WelshGal]

I have worked with him slowly, ive spent over a year just working on catching him again and hes just beginning to pick up his hind feet.

He needs to start learning more things as hes a very intelligent boy and gets metally bored. But im worried that without that bond, then i could undo things.

I have done join up with my mare - but this was loose. When ive lunged him (mainly when i first got him) i had the responses you want from join up, so there should be no reason for not being able to do it on the lunge line.

I have another gelding the same age as him, who i have a strong bond with who i am now long reining with the bit and almost ready to get on. Im planning on trying it on him, because he always comes back to me, even after vet visits, traveling for the first time, hoof trimming, castration. If he reacts well maybe ill try it with leo.

 

[WelshGal]

The fella i want to do it with is the guy as my profile pic. I think he would really benifit by it.

 

[Ladyinred]

Hi, just wondering if anyone has used join up before?


Ive studied animal behaviour and more specifically horse behaviour. I have followed monty roberts since i was young and have always wanted to try join up but never had anywhere to do it. x

Sorry but if you had studied animal behaviour you would know why join-up is a bad idea. Time is all you need, and not necessarily time spent doing things, just chilling out with him and letting him relax and learn to trust. Join-up demands 'respect' and IMHO that is tantamount to bullying.

 

[Empy&Treacle]

If you're interested in it I'd get an RA in if I were you They'll help you and him establish the very basic relationship and trust that will mean he'll happily let you catch him or leave him alone and then you can start the next steps and eventually break him in. Without the basics of him really allowing you to catch him the rest will take a lot longer.

I used to do a lot of join up with my mare, in the stable or loose in the field. It's all possible, just takes time I would get an RA in though just to get you started if nothing else; and like others have said, spend lots of time just being with him and he'll soon learn you're nothing to be wary about

Good luck!!

 

[nixxyz]

i would be careful doing join up on the lunge, not because it doesnt work or cant be done but because it can teach them to turn in on you, which isnt a good thing. Personally i would try and fence off a little pen and free lunge in that, then your fella wont get confused.

 

[Cluny]

Personally I would not do join-up on the lunge as you need to be able for the horse to be able to change direction freely when asked to do so and the lunge could easily get in the way. Also your body language is so important and if you are having to hold a lunge line this will hinder it, also when you turn your back and invite the horse in, the lunge line will totally confuse the issue.

There are a few people who rent out round pens, might be worth seeing if there is someone in your area. Would totally agree about getting an RA out, to start you on the right track. If Sarah Weston is in your area, she's wonderful with feral or semi feral ponies!

 

[Morgan123]

You'll get lots of mixed opinions on this forum - fair enough you know the pony best and everything, but just do think it through carefully, there are a LOT of people who won't do join up with a nervous horse. IMO this is with good reason, and I really regretted having done it wiht my nervous boy - got a MILLION times better results thorugh slowly-softly-quietly approach (even though the join up did appear to have worked fine - it wasn't a problem with performing it, it's a problem with the method and the fact it's very dominant).

This is possibly even more pertinent given that you'd be doing it on the lunge which is harder (and raises quesitons as to whether it's then fair to lunge your horse after you've taught it to join up on a lunge rein? I wouldn't, mixed signals....)

Some studies about wild zebras and things have shown that the only time they did anything remotely 'join up like' in behaviour was when one was chased by a lion and ended up turning to face its prey to give up - head down, licking and chewing, the lot. You don't see domesticated horses chasing one another round the field to establish trust, either!

It's up to you and you know the pony, but if you're getting really good results as you are (well done!) and it's a risky way forward, I would err on the side of caution with a nerby horse and just not.....

 

[forestfantasy]

You'll get lots of mixed opinions on this forum - fair enough you know the pony best and everything, but just do think it through carefully, there are a LOT of people who won't do join up with a nervous horse. IMO this is with good reason, and I really regretted having done it wiht my nervous boy - got a MILLION times better results thorugh slowly-softly-quietly approach (even though the join up did appear to have worked fine - it wasn't a problem with performing it, it's a problem with the method and the fact it's very dominant).

This is possibly even more pertinent given that you'd be doing it on the lunge which is harder (and raises quesitons as to whether it's then fair to lunge your horse after you've taught it to join up on a lunge rein? I wouldn't, mixed signals....)

Some studies about wild zebras and things have shown that the only time they did anything remotely 'join up like' in behaviour was when one was chased by a lion and ended up turning to face its prey to give up - head down, licking and chewing, the lot. You don't see domesticated horses chasing one another round the field to establish trust, either!

It's up to you and you know the pony, but if you're getting really good results as you are (well done!) and it's a risky way forward, I would err on the side of caution with a nerby horse and just not.....

Totally agree with this.
IMO Time is the only way with nervous ponies, been there, now have a wonderful friendly, happy pony who i have never done join-up with.

 

[winterwood]

Join up can be a useful tool to have and use appropriately. The people that see it as 'chasing' the horse do not know how to do join up properly.

In your case I would probably not attempt join up. Spending good quality time with him and some leading work, so he understands that you can control his feet will pay dividends.
Asking him to walk when you walk, stop when you stop (without overtaking), backing up willingly when asked with the lead rope and standing still until you ask him to move (not for long initially) will help him to start looking on you as someone he can have confidence and trust in. Basically all you are doing is moving him about, but in a quiet controlled way with him close to you. Give him a nice stroke when he gets things right.

 

[ISHmad]

With the best will in the world I wouldn't attempt Join Up with him unless you have someone experienced in this to help you to begin with. It could go horribly wrong and after the good work you have done together that is the last thing you want.

 

[Tinypony]

Given what you've posted about the pony, I don't think you should attempt Join Up unless you can get some support and training from a Monty Roberts professional first.
That's coming from someone who wouldn't use Join Up at all and who thinks it's not a great idea. Even I think you should get some help.

 

[fburton]

What Tinypony said!

 

[EllieandGeorge]

Sorry but if you had studied animal behaviour you would know why join-up is a bad idea. Time is all you need, and not necessarily time spent doing things, just chilling out with him and letting him relax and learn to trust. Join-up demands 'respect' and IMHO that is tantamount to bullying.

This!

I had lessons from a horse behaviouralist for almost six months, and the main thing she said about join up is that she didn't like it as rather than allowing the horse to make his own decision it forces the horse to join with you and obey you.

 

[WelshGal]

hi, sorry ive been away from a computer for abit so havent had a chance to reply but have ready many of the posts before.

I sucessfully did join up with another gelding i have whos the same age, breed and was 'wilder' when i got them and he responded really well. so after working with him i decided to have a go with Leo and hes been an absolute star since. Is alont more loving, cuddly, wants to work, listens to me etc. I wasnt expecting such a difference but he has almost totally changed to a different horse, hes no long nervous and if i do something or go somewhere he seems to think that if im doing it and im there it must be safe and alright and will do it. If you get what im trying to say.

I did alot of research before attempting it and also asked alot of people. It has deffinately strengthened our relationship which is basically what i wanted. Hes also no longer pushy and cheeky which he used to get like sometimes when working near his friends.

 

[winterwood]

Well done. Good to hear you had a good result

 

[Oberon]

Excellent.

Better result than me and my old boy - he ended up chasing me round