Joint Supplements! Calling all experts!

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SunshineTallulah

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Hi everyone,

Wonder if I can call on you brainy bunch, as I am having trouble working out which supplements offer the best ingredients at the desired ratios and for what price per day!

Do you agree that the desired amounts are:

Glucosamine - 10g
Chondroitin - 4g
MSM - 10g

I have looked at:

Riaflex
Aviform - cannot work out the daily dose
Corta-Vet - again, doesnt really give you any breakdown
Premierflex HA & Plus - gives levels of ingredients at initial dose..... makes you wonder what the levels go down to after....

If anyone has used or has the details on the side of the tub I would appreciate the info!!

Of course I can call the manufacturers etc but as not allowed personal calls in work hours, its proving difficult as when I finish work, they are all closed!

Thank you! Hugely!!!!!
 
Someone has done a website looking at this. I can never remember the site but Spotted Cat or TGM will know.
 
BTW I use Aviform Suppleaze Gold. Its excellent value for money and I have seen better results/value for money on it than NAF superflex and Feedmark extraflex.
 
My horse has Mobifor, has for the last 5 years. I did try her on a powdered suppliment (can't remeber the name, but it was pure glucosamine HCL and MSM) and the negative effect was so dramatic that I had to give her some Danilon.
 
I would agree with the Glucosamine and MSM levels, but there is still some doubt as to whether the horse, being a herbivore can digest the Chondroitin molecules due to their being too big.

I like the Aviform one, really good value for money and very good levels of active ingredients. Top Spec 10:10 is another good one.
 
My pony's on cosequin which is a suppliment but it has to be percribed and is quite pricey but it's the only one with any scientific research to back it up
 
Its really difficult to compare like- for -like ingredients. I did try but in the end I chose Aviform Suppleaze Gold as well, based on ingredients, recommended daily amounts and price. It's all on their website and it seems high spec and has had 3 for 2 offer for a long time.
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I use Day Son & Hewitt Joint & Relief supplement from their Feel Good 30 range.

works on arthritis and ringbone on an old horse - gives him the same pain relief as 2 sachets of danilon.... he's on 3 scoops a day - I've tried dropping him to 2 scoops (recommended level 2-3 scoops) and he starts to get pottery.

I can find ingredient levels when I'm next out at the barn but I know it contains Boswellia Seratta Extract, Devils Claw Extract, Glucosamine & MSM
 
Grand Meadows website has a really interesting article called the truth about joint supplements which makes for interesting reading. The levels yuou need very much depend upon the purpose you need it for. If you have an older quite arthritic horse who just needs some relief then higher levels of MSM are alright whereas if you have a horse which hasn't already got bad arthritis you may want to look more towards the ingredients like Glucosamine (HCL) and HA (make sure molecular size is teeny tiny as otherwise there is no chance it will be absorber) also I think vitamin c is recomended as it is a good antioxidant. These ingredients in the right levels should provide nourishment to the joints rather than mask the issue.
 
Thanks all. Appreciate the time you have all taken to reply.

Basically, got a 19yo horse. Quite stiff behind, obv not helped by being stabled overnight but he needs to be in. He does walk it off as he does the filling in his hinds.

He was on Riaflex but at the high end of 3 scoops a day and the pot only lasting 24 days, it worked out at £1.75 a day and i just couldnt afford it. I also wasnt convinced it was making a difference.

He also gets TopSpec Balancer which has glucosamine in it and biotin in it, which is handy as he has naff feet!

At the mo, ridden 5 times a week. Two hacks, one school and two 20min pessoa sessions. I would like to try hunting and have lessons but need us both to get much fitter first.

Any suggestions of joint supplements based on the above? Does he need msm or more glucosamine?

Really welcome any thoughts. So hard to know what to do for the best.
 
I would recomend grand meadows mega flex as it can be quite strong if fed in full dose or you can feed a reduced dose which will still be effective just not as antiinflammatory.
 
I have my 17 yr old girl on Topspec Comprehensive & NAF SuperFlex, she wasn't really stiff before but wanted to prevent it, however she is noticeably more supple since shes been on it.
 
Its difficult to work out whats best value because as you say they are not clear about what concentrations are in half these things and they all vary slightly making it hard to compare. But I think Cortaflex HA powder price per recommended dose works out cheaper than most others although it seems more expensive for the size tub.
 
The only thing I can really recomend is buying a supplement that has clear labelling and from that you can tell exactly what is in it> This is the only way you will truly get value for money. There is a good association in the states (the National animal supplement council) which has rigorous testing for any supplement company that is to become a member. This makes sure that all the ingredients they state in the label are actually in the product. Over here we having nothing like that and a study a couple of years ago showed that something like 80% of supplements (joint) don't have what they say is on the label when tested. Scary!!!! Be very careful about what people do with there HA as getting HA through a horsews stomach has been descibed to me (by Biochemists) as being the same as getting a ten tonne truck through a straw!! Ask the company what they have done to it and exactly how much smaller is the molecule otherwise paying the extra for HA just isn't worth it IMO. Can you tell I used to work for a supplement company!? Still very traumatised although the product I dealt with was actually pretty bloody good luckily!
 
Sorry - he is on the Comprehensive - so I got my wires crossed!!!

It is such a flipping mine field.

So I should avoid Chrondroitin and Hyaluronic Acid (HA)?

I kind of thing that the Chrondroitin is a bit iffy cos of the whole marine side of things and is it right to feed it to a horse....

Also I suppose that what works for one horse won't work for another.

Anyone tried just pure MSM and had any results?

Looks like its back to Squre One!
 
An easy way to think about it is that MSM treats soft tissue, Glucosamine treats bone and are also precursers to Chondroitin. The body manufactures it's own Chondroitin naturally and Chondroitin is essential for keeping the fluid around the joint healthy, but when a joint becomes compromised for whatever reason, the fluid around the joint becomes less watery and more gloopy (for want of a better word).

I hope that makes sense!

If you are feeding TopSpec Comprehensive, you are not currently feeding a joint supplement and , if your horse has a problem it would be worth it.

Lots of people feed Glucosamine as a preventative, but latest research showed that if there was not a problem in the first place, feeding Glucosamine has no real effect on preventing future problems. However, it has been shown to be helpful in alleviating existing problems.

So - look for a products that contains both MSM and Glucosamine at the correct levels.

I hope I have not rambled on too much - I get carried away!
 
Feel free to carry away!

That is a great explaination and one that my feeble non scientific brain can cope with.

I had a look at the Grand Meadows website and that has a good article and I think I may try their Grand Mega Flex, providing its not too pricey.

Horse def needs joint help. As I can do a leg transplant or replace him with "young hocks" looks like its going to have to be a supplement. He looks very stiff first thing in the morning, it does walk off with turnout and exercise but he clearly looks like he is not as flexible as he once was.

Agree that age is one of those things and nothing you can do to stop it, however, I would like to try and make the old boy more comfortable and to keep him happy in his work and in the field.

Thanks Sirena!
 
You are welcome!

I would actually look at the Aviform Suppleaze and the TopSpec 10:10, both have the correct levels of MSM and Glucosamine, and, I think, are both under £30 for about a month's worth. I think the Aviform may be the cheaper of the two and available mail order (Tel:01508 530813), you will probably be able to get the 10:10 from whoever supplies your balancer.
 
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My pony's on cosequin which is a suppliment but it has to be percribed and is quite pricey but it's the only one with any scientific research to back it up

[/ QUOTE ]

Chestnut_mare - you can buy it from Neutrecare (google them) without a prescription and much cheaper. Still an expensive supplement but my vet also said it or Synequin or the Newmarket supplement were the only ones with scientific backing.
 
I'm a bit of a saddo and love reading up on horse supplements and feeds. I read up on lots of joint supps when choosing one for my horses - I went for NAF Superflex and its been brilliant. It somehow cured my horses cold back (no idea how) and of my two veteran ponies - the 21yr old galloped off with me the other day and the other 19yr old jogged the whole time when I took her out for a wonder!
 
You have to be very careful when purchasing a joint suppliment that you think is saving you money. For example you need to know exactly what you are feeding per day to make the best decision. i think you said you were feeding Riaflex but found it very expensive. In fact compared to other triple compound suppliments it is one of the cheapest available for gram for gram pure compound it provides. if you were to compare it to something such as extraflex which you think works out cheaper you would be wrong. it is cheaper becasue the dose level is less therefore if you halved the dose of Riaflex you were feeding it would last twice the length of time and become much cheaper. It is easy to make a product cheaper by halfing the daily dose level and sticking in loads of filler.
if you were then to look at something like top spec 10:10 this does not contain chondroitin and therefore is only comparable on price to other products that do not contain Chondroitin such as Riaflex 50:50 and Newmarket.
It is false economy to assume that feeding a triple suppliment at a lower level is better than just feeding 2 joint compounds. It is far more beneficial to feed just Glucosamine and MSM at a very high level (10g each per day) than all three joint compounds at a reduced level.
If budget is your issue then I would like at products that do not contain Chondroitin but contain high levels of Glucosamine and MSM. Riaflex 50:50 £26, Topspec 10:10 £32, and Newmarket are all the kind of products to look at.
hope this helps
 
I have used both Premier Flex and Cortaflex HA, for my horse personally he goes better with Premier Flex.

Cost does not matter to me as I sell them both so pay trade prices, but I still prefer the cheaper Premier Flex.

Incidentally I mostly sell Premier Flex out of all of the supplements I sell, people always seem to repeat buy this product.

Andy that owns Equine Answers is lovely to chat to and is very informative about his product.
 
Completely agree with Monstermunch - it's not what's on the packet it's how much of each ingredient is IN the packet - and that goes for all supplements not just joint supplements - You need to feed the maximum daily recommended amount of each required ingredient for it to do the job effectively - there are a lot of products around that have the ingredient on the label but then there isn't enough of the actual ingredient in the product so you're wasting your money feeding it!
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Kate x
 
I've tried all different types of supplements on my horses and I stick with and swear by using Newmarket Joint Supplement! the y go so well on it- its worth the money and lasts for ages as its concentrated (its Glucosamine Hydrochloride), there are various places that sell it fairly cheaply too.
 
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