JR Pup should I or shouldnt I buy? Advice pls

MyBoyChe

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Bear with me, this could be a bit waffly but you'll understand I want to make the right decision. My friends little JR bitch has had her pups this week and I have first refusal on the only boy. Im dithering because I have never been a jr fan, the only ones Ive known have belonged to various farming relatives and have all been nasty, snappy little thugs, Now my friends little bitch is so not like that, she has a fantastic temperament, brilliant recall and is so biddable its not true. The dog is also a nice natured family pet and very similar size and coat to the bitch. Ive known the bitch since she was 7 weeks old and never known her put a paw wrong, I always said if she ever has pups I would like first refusal on a boy. Sadly she had a rough time and had a c section and was speyed so there will be no more litters, my friend has said I can have the little boy and if I dont she will keep him, her Mum is having the bitch pup. Now, my question is how soon will I know the pup is going to be like Mum, ie same size, same broken coat and same temperament, how much of this is inherited and how much is learned/taught by human intervention. I would hate to take him and he turns into the sort of JR that frankly I cant abide, the nasty snappy, little dog, big ideas, let me off my lead and Ill leg it, sort. I am so smitten with the mother of these pups this is the reason I would like one. They are living in a family home and will be introduced to the other family dog when old enough. Its life with me will be with my 2 ESS who are 3 & 4, my old IWS who is now quite an old man and I know we wont have him much longer. It will spend mornings at home whilst I work and Im hoping that being a little dog I can take him with me when Im out in the horsebox so he can be a deterrent to thieves when its parked (weather permitting of course). As OH often comes with me now to walk the shettie Im sure he could manage 1 small dog as well. What are the chances of the pup being like its parents, with firm consistent handling from us of course.
 

Patterdale

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Yeah they're horrible ;) :D

You need a Patterdale in your life. Mine is the perfect pet. Never snapped in her life and equally happy coming on a 10 mile hack or snoozing in her bed all day. And she's beautiful.
As luck would have it, she had a litter on Monday. How many shall I put you down for?

:D
 

MyBoyChe

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I was reading your thread earlier, hope Mum and pups are all doing OK. Sadly I only know one Patterdale and he is a little horror, zero recall and completely does his own thing. Im sure its the way hes been trained (or rather hasnt) but he does nothing for the good name of the breed. Thats my big concern with this pup, will it inherit good genes as long as I look after it right or is it likely to be a throw back to some long forgotten black sheep in the family and nothing I do makes any difference :)
 

rachyblue

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We've had several Jacks over the years, and the main thing is to be firm with them from the word go. They are strong little personalities and need strong leadership and firm handling. Our last who I had from when I was 18 until I was nearly 30 was a little star, she enjoyed learning tricks and even did a bit of agility. However she had no respect for my Mum who was way too soft with her.
 

cbmcts

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Just to describe the 3 I've had over the years

Number 1 was an abused rescue - BYB, many litters, very little food, lived in a shed before I took her home.She was probably the easiest dog I've ever had and was house trained within a day. About the same amount of time before she learnt to leave the cats and chickens alone. A bit iffy with some men and very over protective with me for a while.Her recall was 99% perfect unless she had seen a squirrel and then it might take a minute or two to get her back. A proper working JRT that was invited everywhere to do her job of rodent/rabbit control. Her biggest faults were that she was a terrible food thief understandably and that I was always very wary with her around children - if they got too pushy with her I think she might have snapped at them, In saying that in her 21 years she never did bite a child (adults were fair game in the first few years I had her but only if she thought they were threatening me) She very much followed the rule that a tired dog is a good dog!

Number 2 was another bitch who was given to me far too young, only 5 weeks old. I have to say that she was not a typical terrier in any form. Quite nervy, very hard to house train, mainly because she loathed bad weather and as thick as two planks put together. She really was dim,if there was a stupid way she could do something/get into trouble she would always do it.I seemed to spend half my life rescuing her :) Any kind of training was tortuously slow especially as I was used to the first JRT who was so easy by comparison. She had NO chase instinct, was afraid of anything (except dogs and cats) that was bigger than her and didn't do cold, rain, snow, water, dark and fireworks and many other things! But she was the sweetest, nicest dog ever, loved everybody, lived for her cuddles and was incredibly gentle. She was the only dog that I have ever trusted implicitly with children. Exercise wise, she would have preferred to be carried everywhere rather than walk...

Number 3 The current JRT - another rescue at the age of 8. Funny little clown of a dog, spotlessly clean indoors, great with people with little or no chase instinct. Horrible with other dogs and very strongwilled, I find myself battling to avoid being trained by the dog rather than the other way round! I suspect that he was rather spoiled by his previous owner but 3 years on we're finally coming round to an agreement about who's in charge...I think :) The only yappy dog I've ever had and it drives me mad but again, there is an improvement to when I got him.

As a type (because most JRTs aren't a breed IYSWIM) they can be challenging due to the combination of intelligence and wilfulness (is that a word?) as they will rule the world if they're let. In saying that so are many other breeds and I'd have another tomorrow
 

Pinkvboots

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They are not all horrible I have a bitch she will be a year in October and she has the most fantastic nature she loves everyone including children, she is very obedient I can hack out on my horse with her running alongside without any problem, you can walk her without a lead she gets on with other dogs a fantastic little dog, my bf bought her last year and she was the last puppy left, there was still another bitch with her waiting to be collected he said that one just constantly wanted to chew his hands yet our one (Winnie) just wanted to sit on his lap and have a cuddle, so I think we got the best puppy really but I think its very hard to tell how they will be.

Just wanted to add she was totally toilet trained in about a week, she never yaps for no reason but will alert you to anyone outside, I find she is quite a submisive dog in general, she does have loads of energy but we have our own land at home for the horses so its not a problem for us, but when we go the inlaws will walk her and she has about 3 long walks a day and she can still keep going so they are very energetic.
 
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Capriole

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I loved mine! But yeah, she was horrible ;)

We got her as an older dog though, from not the best home, she took a lot of work to get sorted to an acceptable level. If we'd had her from being a pup though I'm sure she would have been marginally less horrible, at the very least :)

If I was ever to get another small dog it would probably be a JR.
 

FinnishLapphund

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Bear with me, this could be a bit waffly but you'll understand I want to make the right decision. My friends little JR bitch has had her pups this week and I have first refusal on the only boy. Im dithering because I have never been a jr fan, the only ones Ive known have belonged to various farming relatives and have all been nasty, snappy little thugs, Now my friends little bitch is so not like that, she has a fantastic temperament, brilliant recall and is so biddable its not true. The dog is also a nice natured family pet and very similar size and coat to the bitch. Ive known the bitch since she was 7 weeks old and never known her put a paw wrong, I always said if she ever has pups I would like first refusal on a boy. Sadly she had a rough time and had a c section and was speyed so there will be no more litters, my friend has said I can have the little boy and if I dont she will keep him, her Mum is having the bitch pup. Now, my question is how soon will I know the pup is going to be like Mum, ie same size, same broken coat and same temperament, how much of this is inherited and how much is learned/taught by human intervention. I would hate to take him and he turns into the sort of JR that frankly I cant abide, the nasty snappy, little dog, big ideas, let me off my lead and Ill leg it, sort. I am so smitten with the mother of these pups this is the reason I would like one. They are living in a family home and will be introduced to the other family dog when old enough. Its life with me will be with my 2 ESS who are 3 & 4, my old IWS who is now quite an old man and I know we wont have him much longer. It will spend mornings at home whilst I work and Im hoping that being a little dog I can take him with me when Im out in the horsebox so he can be a deterrent to thieves when its parked (weather permitting of course). As OH often comes with me now to walk the shettie Im sure he could manage 1 small dog as well. What are the chances of the pup being like its parents, with firm consistent handling from us of course.

If someone finds a way to guarantee the outcome of nature's lottery, let me know, because as far as I know, it is mainly about probability and guesses. Maybe the mother is a one off, maybe not.

Some says that they can start notice individual temperament/personality differences in puppies, from when they're just a few days old, some says that they can do it from that the puppies are about 3 to 4 weeks old, others says that they need to be a bit older before you can tell for certain. But regardless of which age they are, it is difficult, because any rested, healthy young puppy should be curious and active, so it is about noticing nuances. Preferably you want to notice the same/similar nuance more than once, so it is good if you can watch them for more than a short while.

Some differences in general that people could look for when viewing a litter:

*When you first say Hello to the puppies, how do they act, where do you place them on a scale going from shy to mowing you down?
*If they puppies have been awake for a while, and you pick one up, how does it react? If it doesn't want to stay and you don't let it go at once, does it change its mind and accept to stay for a while, or do you have to give up and let it go? If you had to let them go and it turns out that they needed to go to the toilet, their reaction to being held doesn't count, let them finish their business and try again.
*If you put down a new toy in the puppy pen, how quickly do they notice it? Do they come and investigate it as soon as they notice it, do they approach it carefully or do they just aim for it without a second thought?
*After that the puppies have slept, do they all seem about as active or is there a puppy/puppies that is more active than the others?
*Is there one puppy who is often the last one to go back to sleep?

In general, most people should avoid exaggeration and neither buy the overactive or overly submissive type of puppies.

Personally I believe that the brood bitch is the most important factor when it comes to puppies. They may inherit genes from the stud dog and other relatives, the breeder, owners and other dogs etc. may later influence them in one way or the other, but the brood bitch is the puppies first teacher in dog language and dog behaviour! I always say that if you don't like the brood bitch, don't buy the puppy.


If he is over 2 or 3 weeks old, maybe you could go and have a look at him? If he seems like a calm, averagely active puppy, then there is always the possibility that he'll turn out to be quite similar to his mother. But there is nothing wrong with realising that even though you like one particular individual dog/bitch, this or that dog breed simply isn't the right one for you.
 

satinbaze

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You are used to gundog breeds and terriers are a very different kettle of fish. Being a gundog person myself my advice is stick to what you know. At least you know the pup will have z good home and if he is nice maybe you can adopt him for a few walks etc
 

Cinnamontoast

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Get another springer! Three is a good number :wink3:

I believe that the way the dog is brought up makes it how it is, but what happens to them influences them too. My two siblings are very different despite being brought up together, one is a real boundary pusher, one is desperate to please, one is DA, one isn't. I don't think the dam is a reliable measure.
 

hula

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Know of 3 JRT currently. Depends very much on the breeding for general traits, but of course they are all individuals.

JRT 1 - more the designer miniature type. Smooth coated. Lovely little thing, very much a pet.

JRT 2 - another miniature. From a less than reputable breeder. Bit odd looking. More terrier instinct. Is snappy at times.

JRT 3 - working parents. Slim and leggy with a wiry coat. Best way to describe her - bonkers and slightly neurotic, tonnes of energy. We took her hiking with us before and were lucky enough to have her off the lead for a fair part. We walked 10miles - we were shattered and the dog was still bounding about. Nevertheless lovely natured but not the type of dog I'd put with children.
 

echodomino

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I have 4 Jacks and when it comes to small dogs (apart from a Pug which I would love) I wouldn't have anything else. Mine have all been easy to train and I compete 2 of my girls in agility which they love.

You are used to gundog breeds and terriers are a very different kettle of fish. Being a gundog person myself my advice is stick to what you know. At least you know the pup will have z good home and if he is nice maybe you can adopt him for a few walks etc

Not strictly true, I grew up with gundogs, German Wires and Wire Vizslas, then we added a terrier. There are quite a few similarities with the 3 breeds and they go together well, a lot of people have terriers alongside gundogs. One of the Jacks I bred goes picking up with her local shoot, even the Labrador people have said she's one of the best on the shoot.

I'd say go and meet him when he's older and make your mind up then :)
 

MyBoyChe

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Thanks everyone. He looks a bit like the little jack in the "Harvey" ads who I believe is Sykes in the new Midsomers, similar colour pattern, slightly shorter in the leg if anything like his Mum and Dad and at 10 days old has a very thick coat which his breeder thinks is starting to "rough up". I have been to see him twice already and am planning my next visit when his eyes open, he only lives 5 mins away. The little bitch is being a fab Mum, she is really doing well by them and her temperament hasnt changed at all, she is quite protective of the pups but happy to let you sit with her and stroke her and talk to the pups, hasnt growled once at anyone apparently. Im coming down heavily in favour of taking him home at the moment, will be keeping a careful eye on how he starts to grow up once his eyes are open and he starts to develop a character so please can we keep our fingers crossed for a happy, cheerful little pup who will make an excellent new little brother for my 2 spangles :)
 

FinnishLapphund

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Fingers crossed.
crossfingers.gif


:)
 

Hexx

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Jacks are Fab!!

My first dog was a jrt - a typical short haired, queen-anne-legged white with a black patch over one eye/ear. He was the most fabulous dog.

I strongly believe that it is how you bring them up that determines how your dog will be. You need to get him well socialised with people, dogs, new sights and sounds. They can be wilful, but start training at a young age. Scrappy would sit and give paw at 9 weeks for a treat. He had a good recall and was very well housetrained.

A few years ago, I started fostering for a dog rescue - I mainly took terriers, in all I had 13 fosters (and I didn't fail once, but it was a close thing a couple of times). I took a wide variety of terriers, some had never been outside their houses, some had been horribly abused, some were nice little dogs given up in poor circumstances. All of them came right and were re-homed. I was very clear and firm with each dog that came in. They learned the routine of the house, they learned that obedience was rewarded and naughtiness was ignored. They had regular exercise, some of them had never been on a lead - I had one that had never been outside and was actually yellow from the nicotine stains on his coat from where his owners smoked. Being outside was a revelation for him - he loved it, and it was difficult to get him to come in again! I had another one that must have been beaten by his previous owner, he was terrified of being touched and would wet himself - it took about 3 months to get him turned around, and he was rehomed with a lovely couple who adore him.

I absolutely adore them as a breed - funnily enough though, at the moment I don't have a JRT, I have a welsh terrier, a jrtxdaxi and a miniature pinscher (don't get one of these, they are nuts!!!!).

Go for it - you won't regret it!
 
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