Judges scoring and confusion

I understand the position of Judges and now realise that is why they have three!!!!!! Some may see a little relapse of relaxation,rhythmn, forwardness etc.........Kick of the leg!!!!!tehe!!!!! But paces, as you say Jlav,,,,,,,,much to be debated on that!!!!!!!! I know now forward forward forward!!!!!!!! tehe!!

Bannanaman......dressage eh?!!!!!!!!!!tut!!.....think I better go to bed before I say tooooooooooo much!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!! Anway, here is to training our horses to the best of their and our ability.......happy partnership........that is what is it all about!!!!!!!!! In My Honest Opinion..........and a long one at that!!!!!!!!
 
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I don't worry at all about the different marks ,it is the placings I worry about .Some judges are more generous than others but when one think a horse should be 1st and another thinks it should be 16th and the complete other way round for another horse ,I do worry and both judges are facing a long side so they see the straightness ,not of the same movement but they will be seeing it more than the C judge

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Whilst I agree that huge differences in the placings can be worrying you have to look at the scores as it tends to put the whole thing more in perspective especially where you have 3 judges as so many of the horses are on exceptionally close scores you could have a difference of 10 places or so with the difference in total marks being only say 15 or 20 (or 5 or 6 per judge.)

You do hopefully at least all have the top 4 or 5 up the top of the class even if you don't all agree on the outright winner and this was not the case in Freestylers class. Interestingly it seems that the judges are more likely to agree on who came last!!!
 
Freestyler mark 8 and 11 are both walk movements so I would be interested to see the comments of the judge who gave you 5. They should definately have commented but PM me if you don't want to put the comments on open forum.

If that judge thought there was a problem with his rhythm in the walk (ie that he didn't always maintain a clear 4 beat and tended towards going lateral )then I could understand the mark and if that was the same judge who then gave a 6 for the paces then that would be why she marked him down. However I would have to disagree with her as the other 2 judges did as I (and the other Jane who's also a judge) saw no loss of rhythm at all.
 
Jlav, very interesting as I looked at the other classes and sure enough the Judges seemed to have the top 5-10 and agreed on these.. especially as the classes went up ie. medium advance/PSG etc....many judges had 1,1,1, on many classes too.............it seems the vast differences of judging is between prelim to medium????????
 
Tut...are you not list 1 yet!! You should be!!!!! Yes and yes... same Judge!!! HA!! They use to say a horse with a good walk showed a good horse, but I tend to disagree with this now!!!!!!!!
 
Indeed good point!

Is all very complicated. I think i have my head around it and then someone points something out to me that i hadn't considered
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I think regionals always bring up these problems. I think judges suffer from 'regionalitis' and for some bizarre reason change what they expect to see and the mark they give for it!
When you think about it, everyone had to qualify to get to these champs so you would expect a higher set of marks through the whole class not lower but for some reason what was acceptable as a way of going at the winter novce/ elem/ what ever level qualifier now is not and they want to see a horse with a more advanced way of going [but still at the same level, bit like moving the goal posts]. This makes no sense at all.
I have suffered from this myself have infact lost 3 national titles over it but have learnt to take it on the chin. Reasons for variations in marks have been very odd!! My first nationals one of the judges[ i happened to know the writer] spent the entire test asking who i was and why did'nt she know me!! She placed me LAST in the class where the other 3 judges all had me in the top 5!!
Another Nationals and the one judge 'does'nt like stallions'
Another champs and i was the poor idiot that had to follow Spirit Of Freedom [SOF]!!! Stephen Clarke actually used the two videos of our tests in a judge training seminar as the Dutch judge had me 2nd and commented 'a beautifully trained Novice horse' [funny that as thats what i thought a novice championship was about!]The other judges , who quite frankly had'nt given SOF high enough marks took them off me!! he pointed this out as SOF should have had 80%+ and mine was a 70% test. In Holland SOF would not have been in the novice because he was qualified for the elementary final and you are only allowed to ride at one level. Which makes perfect sense to me as if the system is truely systematic then a horse at Elementary should not be in the Novice as his training must have surpassed this level.
So the reasons for the judging are many and varied and we could debate this for ever and a day. I would like to see the use of half marks as it does help . I also see your point totally with the 5's , i too have experienced this and it does make your blood boil at the time but you really need to be in that arena for yourself and go on what you feel and know that you have come a long way and you really must be doing pretty well.
I still fail to see how Anky on Salinero can get 80 + % when the horse is frequently going around with his mouth open, in this country that would mean a max mark of 5. Because thats what they were told to do at judge training!!!.........
This one is a can of worms.............
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I agree Partoow, about horses who are Q at the level above, doing the one below. The horse that won the Adv med also won the medium and the horse placed 6th in Adv Med came 2nd in the Elem!!

How can a horse being placed at Adv Med, be morally able to do Elem? That would be like me doing the Elem Regionals and the Prelim!

...i think
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It must squew what the judges are looking for?
 
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