Judging a Best Turned Out...

_MizElz_

_MizElz_

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We might be judging a BTO class in a couple of weeks, and I just wanted to get some opinions on judging strategies...

It was mentioned on here a while back that a BTO class should not be about how much bling a horse can have on it's tack/hooves etc, nor how heavily made up and well manicured the rider may be, but instead about the horse and rider who are turned out best for their particular discipline. I've seen many a BTO where the first four have all been the ones with snazzy browbands, heavily made up riders, button holes coloured stocks, matching waistcoats etc. Whilst at the other end of the line up, you get what I would class as the 'Pony Club' crew - kids on their ponies who have made a real effort, look very smart, have perfectly clean tack but without the 'bling', and therefore not as flashy. Is it right that these riders shouldnt get a look in when the Bling Brigade is about? I've often pondered the injustice of it myself, so now we're judging it, it'd make my day if a plainly yet correctly dressed combination were to be placed above a blingy one.

So - what is the best way of judging? Do we ask each rider what they do with their horse (and what they are doing that day), and take that into account when judging if they're turned out correctly for their purpose? For example, if a Bling rider replies that she is taking her horse in the dressage later on, then you might argue that with a coloured browband and buttonhole in situ, she actually isnt turned out for her purpose....similarly, if a rider turned up with a white saddle pad, nicely plaited up and a smart black jacket and said they were entering the dressage, then although they may not look like a typical show combination, they may well be turned out brilliantly for their purpose...

Do you see what I'm getting at? I'd really like some opinions on this, as it has been a long time since I've really had much to do with the showing world!
 
no, personally i think it should be judged on the horse being turned out to type, not discipline, rider dressed to suit, cleanliness of tack and horse... turnout etc. Not necessarily who paid the most and has the newest stuff though.

i have a dislike for placings being given to ponies/horses where the owners have yes, obviously tried very hard but have turned their ponies out like a sows ear, brightly coloured numnahs, badly dressed etc., because 'theyve made the effort and tried really hard'...well so has everyone else, and if those other people look better, are better turned out, i think the placings should go to them
 
To my mind BTO should be judged on turn out - not bling necessarily. If the cleanest and neatest pony happens to blinged up then fine. But if not, that's fine too.

I accept it is a long while since I had much to do with BTO classes and then only at PC level so any bling would have been minimal or at least well controlled. But things like the cleanliness of tack including all the nooks and crannies, underside of hooves, top of the dock, behind the ears (horse not rider - although that might be a possibility too!), underside of numnah etc were what got checked.

But there is a reason I don't do any showing at all if I can avoid it. I don't understand the judging!
 
Sorcerers Apprentice said:
no, personally i think it should be judged on the horse being turned out to type, not discipline, rider dressed to suit, cleanliness of tack and horse... turnout etc. Not necessarily who paid the most and has the newest stuff though.

i have a dislike for placings being given to ponies/horses where the owners have yes, obviously tried very hard but have turned their ponies out like a sows ear, brightly coloured numnahs, badly dressed etc., because 'theyve made the effort and tried really hard'...well so has everyone else, and if those other people look better, are better turned out, i think the placings should go to them
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Thank you for your reply! :)

I agree - coloured numnahs, poor quality plaiting, messy clothing etc. should NOT be rewarded, because even if they have tried hard, they've obviously not tried hard enough! I would never place anyone who was grubby above an immaculate pairing - that would be wrong, I totally admit. But 'dressed to type' - is that for showing, or simply for competing in general?

I guess what I'm getting at though is this - is a BTO class a true showing class? I mean, if you turned up for a Riding Horse class with an unplaited horse, in my mind that would be incorrect turnout straight away so you would lose substantial marks. But is a BTO actually about turning out for all disciplines, or just for showing? That really is my question - why did it take me all that waffle before to get to the point....LOL! :o:D
 
I also think they should be turned out to type. If the pony is a show hunter, they should be turned out accordingly, if the pony is an M&M, they should be turned out accordingly, etc. I have been very fortunate to win turnout classes with my (gasp!) unplaited M&M, purely because we are turned out as we should be for her type. And yes, I have heard mutterings from others when we have won because I 'haven't even bothered to plait'.
 
Agree completely. True to each type, with a small inch of leeway either way for minor incorrectness at local level as not everyone at that level should have to dash out to buy the full showing kit if they only do local level for fun tbh.
Not one for 'bling in the ring' anyway though myself tbh.

What show is it, out of curiousity...wouldn't be a PC one coming up soon would it lol? PM or FB if you want. x
 
Shay said:
To my mind BTO should be judged on turn out - not bling necessarily. If the cleanest and neatest pony happens to blinged up then fine. But if not, that's fine too.

I accept it is a long while since I had much to do with BTO classes and then only at PC level so any bling would have been minimal or at least well controlled. But things like the cleanliness of tack including all the nooks and crannies, underside of hooves, top of the dock, behind the ears (horse not rider - although that might be a possibility too!), underside of numnah etc were what got checked.

But there is a reason I don't do any showing at all if I can avoid it. I don't understand the judging!
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Aha - this is what I'm getting at! Thank you :)

In classes I have seen recently, the judge has not even picked up hooves/looked under tail/examined ears etc. Instead, they seem to have been dazzled by the mascaraed riders with their massive coloured browbands, and not looked further than the outer gleam of coat shine. So I think I need to make a list of all the things to look at, and then award marks for each aspect...

I dont want people to think I'm biased against those who are blinged up - I simply want everyone to have a chance, even if they do look more plain :)
 
fihunt said:
I also think they should be turned out to type. If the pony is a show hunter, they should be turned out accordingly, if the pony is an M&M, they should be turned out accordingly, etc. I have been very fortunate to win turnout classes with my (gasp!) unplaited M&M, purely because we are turned out as we should be for her type. And yes, I have heard mutterings from others when we have won because I 'haven't even bothered to plait'.
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Excellent - my point entirely! I'm sure it must have made some people mad, but that is EXACTLY how I would like to judge. :)
 
But. in all fairness, you're not actually allowed to touch the horse now judging - Only thing you're allowed to do if move the tail to the side and pushaway the grass around the hooves if it's hiding them if you wish....so that's another to bear in mind. :)
 
Binky01 said:
Agree completely. True to each type, with a small inch of leeway either way for minor incorrectness at local level as not everyone at that level should have to dash out to buy the full showing kit if they only do local level for fun tbh.
Not one for 'bling in the ring' anyway though myself tbh.

What show is it, out of curiousity...wouldn't be a PC one coming up soon would it lol? PM or FB if you want. x
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Yes indeed it is....Mum actually used to run the whole show, until I gave up PC! So this year Mum's judging and I'm her 'steward' ;)
 
Binky01 said:
But. in all fairness, you're not actually allowed to touch the horse now judging - Only thing you're allowed to do if move the tail to the side and pushaway the grass around the hooves if it's hiding them if you wish....so that's another to bear in mind. :)
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Really????? Even at local level? Can you examine the rider....ie. boots, stirrup treads etc? And what about looking for soap suds in holes on the bridle??
 
plain is fine! :)

i have a type of horse that id expect to have to plait up and use a velvet browband, Fihunt has a MM so id expect her to use a plainer bridle and not plait, and a hunter to be plaited with a plain bridle, all different types presented differently but correctly within the class.

ive nothing against plain, and ive nothing against a bit of bling (nothing to outrageous though, ick!), but i dont think plain should win just BECAUSE its plain iykwim?
 
Binky01 said:
But. in all fairness, you're not actually allowed to touch the horse now judging - Only thing you're allowed to do if move the tail to the side and pushaway the grass around the hooves if it's hiding them if you wish....so that's another to bear in mind. :)
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seriously!?!

its a while ago now, but when i used to do these classes the judges were all over the place running gloved hands over the coat and checking tack and bits and bobs!
 
Sorcerers Apprentice said:
plain is fine! :)

i have a type of horse that id expect to have to plait up and use a velvet browband, Fihunt has a MM so id expect her to use a plainer bridle and not plait, and a hunter to be plaited with a plain bridle, all different types presented differently but correctly within the class.

ive nothing against plain, and ive nothing against a bit of bling (nothing to outrageous though, ick!), but i dont think plain should win just BECAUSE its plain iykwim?
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Yep, I totally see what you mean, and I agree! Think my OP may have come across as a bit biased...which I didnt mean it to, because actually, as a kid, I used to be part of the bling brigade....and I even now have a snazzy black velvet and diamante browband that Mum made for me the one time I decided to have a (unsuccessful!) bash at Riding Horse with Ellie :o:eek::D

All to be judged on their own merits - sounds good to me :)
 
I was told that as well... They can feel the legs, but that is it. However you can ask the rider to move their leg forward to inspect tack, etc.
 
During BTO at my old previous PC ones, the judge did on request of asking each handler to do so first.

I've not done BTO classes myself though, just the normal ridden showing classes and never touched them [minus a young child who was having major difficulties with a rather excited pony so did send steward to help them quick as they wanted to leave the class but pony was having none of it lol] - but other than that I just normally move the tail and surface around feet :) Not allowed/meant to feel legs anymore even, but this can easily be done on sight tbf.

So I'd just say check with secretary on the day to ask if that is ok to do, then if it ok to do, just ask on request for each handler in the class if you may [pick up a hoof, etc] :) Better that than getting kicked or whatever. [Even though I'd expect any of them in the ring to be willing to pick up a foot and be inspected etc!]
Def feel free to check for soap suds, treads, etc :)


Elz - Yep am indeed too! :D
 
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IMO A turnout class should be firstly about correct turnout for type - M&M unplaited in plain tack, Cobs hogged in plain workmanlike tack, Hunter plaited in workmanlike tack, RH plaited in finer tack with coloured browband etc, my pet hate is BLACK jackets in show classes....
Secondly cleanliness - hoofs oiled inside and out, ears/jaw trimmed (where correct), boot soles cleaned, stirrup treads immaculate and clean not new tack! Rider hair correctly in a bun with net (or plaits for children) etc etc.
"Bling" has no place in a show ring (apart from said coloured browbands).
Good luck in judging, your winner is normally obvious before you inspect them closely. :)
 
I agree with most of the above, cleanliness, making allowances for mud splatters on a wet day of course, correctness (for type of horse/pony or discipline) and including correct use of tack -eg two reins on a Cheltenham and lip strap on a pelham or double.
Level of show has to be taken into consideration too as you can't expect people at local level to have multiple show jackets but what they do have should be clean and tidy.

I did once get an otherwise beautifully turned out show pony type with the curb high up in its mouth and the snaffle below it - straight down the line.

M&M should be untrimmed but if someone brought in a plaited section b or New Forest I would consider it a show pony or show hunter pony and expect the rest of the turnout to be in keeping.

It can be a very difficult class to judge. If in doubt ask to see the stirrup bars -a place that is often missed when cleaning the saddle.
 
I've shown in BTO for yrs and now my daughter is doing it herself. My perogative is clean, clean, clean and then clean some more. I would expect everything to be immaculate, after all the title is a giveaway for how clean horse & rider should be. Every detail is not missed when i clean including stirrup treads with a toothbrush, bottom of riders boots with a nail brush, under the dock, every strand of mane and tail brushed completely thru, billet holes pushed thru with a matchstick, under saddle and saddle flaps, bit rings and all buckles clean and shiny, under the forelock (foreheads do get greasy!) Heels with feathers brushed thru, white bits of pony scrubbed and chalked. Rider must have a hairnet or perfectly plaited long hair with a mute ribbon to tone in with jacket if under 16. Jackets pressed, numbers to be pinned on or tied with matching string to jacket, number to have the edges rounded off, gloves to match the jacket, show cane to match. Shirt and tie for M&M's, tie to be discreet and tone with jacket. Tack must match type/breed of pony/horse, bling browband is perfectly acceptable for show pony type plaited up but totally wrong for hunter or M&M. Pet hate is bridle colour not matching saddle colour, i don't like to see anything other than plain tack to be honest, i don't think martingales, gadgets have a place in turnout classes and if taking the martingale off please take the stops off the reins as well!

I have M&M's so don't plait but have been regulary placed above plaited simply because of being cleaner and smarter overall. If more tack is needed for later classes then i simply add them after the turnout, i just feel the overall impression should be clean and plain and simple.

I personally don't go in for show shines etc, don't use make up, baby oil, i do have one who has a bit of chalk on one white leg but this is done the night before so it isn't all dusty then brushed off in the morning.

I also dont like to see numnahs unless they are freshly washed and match the tack perfectly, a discreet show numnah is perfectly acceptable but not if you lift it up and half a ton of grease is on the bottom of it.

Feet should be freshly trimmed or shod and oiled/clean, again i don't use hoof oil, just clean and polish with shampoo suds the day before and a lick of clear vaseline in the morning on the outside only.
 
Like Boysy above in years gone by I did a lot of turn out classes. Clean clean and clean again and correctly fitted tack. I would have fallen into the bling brigade to some extent - coloured browband, double bridle, button hole, some gloss on horse's face but correctly done. I used to like it when the judge checked everything such as underneath of boots, inside of gloves (yes really) and under the saddle flap.

On the few occasions I have judged these, cleanliness and correctness of turnout/fit would be paramount - a clean well fitted snaffle would be as point winning as a clean well fitted double.

I think also those little bits that don't cost really cost anything are vital - such as a matching number string, a small carnation or rosebud nicked out of someone's garden (well not nicked), well trimmed unless a native etc.


I personally wouldn't like to see a dressage numnah in what I categorise as a show class.
 
If I was to judge a BTO, I would be looking for the cleanest, neatest, with correctly fitted tack that's correct of the type of animal. I would also ask children if they had done the work themselves and take their answer into account when placing them! ;)
 
I did our first ever bto this weekend (thanks to those on here that gave advice!). It was the local PC show and they checked v thoroughly - horse, tack and rider.

We walked around, then lined up. Then each was asked in turn to come out of the line up for an inspection. Then we all walked on again before being called in. During the inspection the judge asked to be able to touch the horse and tack. The insides of all the bridle straps were checked, saddle flaps (inc under, girth straps, under stirrup flap etc) and well felt - to check for condition perhaps?, tail moved to check under dock, stirrup irons checked, numnah etc. Basically, if it could be cleaned or polished it was checked to make sure it was - I was thrilled as she noticed that I had polished my buckles - spent ages polishing every one after cleaning my tack so was pleased it was noticed! Obv no wax/soap in holes. I turned out correctly for type, so as a hunter. In all fairness I wasn't totally correct as I wasn't wearing spurs (I don't have a tidy pair), no cane (don't have one so used a brown leather crop) and I didn't have a tweed on (again, don't have one so wore my black jacket). The rest was correct.

The judge at the end suggested that to improve for next time I could wipe a little baby oil over her bottom. I didn't use any show products on her as it is a pet hate of mine to have a horse with an oil slick going on! Guess that bit of the show comes down to personal preference of the judge. We just went as correct as we could, and cleaner than brand new! (btw, we won!!! I was so pleased!!!)

Good luck with judging! You will never please everyone, but if you enter a showing class then you must be prepared to take the opinion of the judge, wether you like it or not!
 
As tack and turnout classes are always part of showing shows, I expect them to turn out as if they are going showing, not as if they are going jumping/dressaging. But cleanliness is more important than anything.

I did one of these recently. I gave marks out of 5 for each catagory, and then my steward tallied them up. The one with the highest mark won.

5 catagories:

Correctness of pony turnout - Basically have they turned out to correct showing standards for their ponies type/ Snaffle/double bridle, plain or coloured browband, discreet numnah, no coloured make up for m&ms, pulled tails not plaited tails, correct 'natural state' for the m&m breed (some, like connies for example, are actually shown trimmed which many t&t judges don't realise).

Cleanliness of pony - How clean the pony is, neat plaits or well combed mane if m&m or non-bogbrush hog, clean under dock etc.

Cleanliness of tack - discounting correctness, how clean is what their presenting

Correctness of rider - blue jacket or tweed jacket, beige/yellow not white jodphurs, shirt and tie not stock, no ugly buttonholes, correct hairstyle for age of rider

Cleanliness of rider - again discounting correctness of tack, how clean is what their presenting?

I've found by using these 5 catagories, I am rewarding correct turnout, but still putting more of an emphasise on cleanliness.
 
marmalade76 said:
If I was to judge a BTO, I would be looking for the cleanest, neatest, with correctly fitted tack that's correct of the type of animal. I would also ask children if they had done the work themselves and take their answer into account when placing them! ;)
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I wouldn't take it into account. I've actually overheard producers saying to their kids 'remember you've done the work yourself' when entering the ring. Some have no problems with lieing through their teeth.
 
MissSBird said:
I wouldn't take it into account. I've actually overheard producers saying to their kids 'remember you've done the work yourself' when entering the ring. Some have no problems with lieing through their teeth.
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Yikes, that's a bit scary! At the end of the day it is a tack and turnout class, not a 'did the work all on my own' class. You can only judge what you see, the rest might be a total load of fiction!!
 
glosgirl said:
Yikes, that's a bit scary! At the end of the day it is a tack and turnout class, not a 'did the work all on my own' class. You can only judge what you see, the rest might be a total load of fiction!!
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I know exactly what you mean and it kind of irritates me when judges do this. I've been doing t&t classes with my boy this year as he's only a baby and I think it's good to get him into the ring without actually doing the exciting go round. He's a pony though, so I'm always in with the kids. I don't mind it when the kids win as it's only a fun class and seeing them so happy to have beaten the adult is actually really sweet. But it does annoy me to hear the judges asking the kids this. At the end of the day, I did the work myself too...
 
Sorry, haven't read all the replies, but IMO, Best Turned Out is:

Clean pony
Clean tack
Clean riding attire

New or old, any of it, it should be supple leather and neat clothes. Bling is neither here nor there.
 
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