Judging Weight Carrying ability

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SusieT

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Ok, so how have you 'defined' what weight your horse can carry? Is it based just on a feeling? On how he acts? On injuries?
On what you judge a 'fat' person as being and therefore needing a 'fat' persons horse?
On equations from the internet or books?
 
This is v. interesting. The other day I was watching a video of men riding Icelandic horses (which look quite a bit like my New Forest pony). Are they any more able to carry this weight? Are they 'stronger' or is it simply that there are no other horses in Iceland for them to ride? People have traditionally used the horses' under knee leg measurement as a guide, but we wouldn't say about a person "She's got chunky legs, she can carry more" would we? I think feeling is the best guide.
 
I base it mainly on how sympathic the rider is and what work the horse is required to do.
I am over 13 stone and ride my 13.3hh lightweight cob and daughters 13.1hh Connie occasionally. This is for short hacks...max an hour, in walk trot and canter but mainly walk.
I am well balanced, use well fitting tack and neither have shown any problems whatsoever carrying me up and down our Devon hills.

I'm overweight but not overly 'fat'...just heavy but well balanced.
 
This is very interesting.
I have a 15hh lightweight cob type and Iam 12.5 stone and 5ft 7". I fret that I am too big for her.
When we hack she can doo all sorts of acrobatic manouvers, so I dont think she can find it that difficult to carry me. But I am very worried that she struggles when we school.
 
The breeding of the horse or pony is crucial, some breeds are specifically intended to carry weight, others are not.

A shetland is proportionately stronger than any other equine and can carry the weight of an adult - although it wouldn't be a comfy ride. They have been used for hauling great weights too.

Most native ponies have great strength, highlands were intended to carry a man and a stag, fell and dales ponies were intended to be small cheap draught horses for hill farmers that could also do some trotting racing for entertainment.

On the otherhand a TB was never intended to carry significant weight as it was bred for speed.

Most people are overly cautious about the weights horses can carry, and while "bone" is a good guide, a heavy cob will carry more than a taller horse, there are exceptions. Arabs are very strong and in arabian countries will carry full grown men over long distances at speed, yet they don't have much bone.
 
Conformation of the horse, work load, riders ability/balance, age and health of the horse, fitness of horse and rider etc.

You also need to think about what that horse was bred for - eg, Highlands were bred for carrying farmers (and stags!) on the mountains, so they tend to be tough and strong, and could take more weight than, say, a 14hh cob type which was bred for driving - although the cob would probably be "chunkier".

So complicated! As a heavier rider, I tend to look at the horse and judge myself. I ride my 29 year old TBx, who is short backed and no history of back problems. But I wouldn't ride my friends younger cob type, who is long in the back, has back problems, and has had a stifle operation. But to look at them, you'd think the cob would be able to carry more weight as he is chunkier.
 
when i got my haffy i spent alot of time doing research on weight carrying horses before i got him.
the weight limit on a haffy is 19 stone that is a 14.3 hh haffy, the true type.
having done alot of riding in the past i am quite a balanced rider, which of course is better than a unbalanced rider.

mine will take the pee out of light rider, because he is very strong and he can, no matter how good a rider they are.

my horse can lift me off the ground and has done a number of times, he weighs 90 stone and will let you know it when he wants too.
he can still give one hell of a buck with me on him, when he gets excited.

being a heavy/fat rider i would not dream of getting on a small horse it would not be fair to the animal and the damage would just be unfair.

as much as i would love to get on my girls 12.2 welsh pony
oh i weigh 17 and half stone.
 
I'm about 12 stone and have ridden loads of different horses. My first horse was an arab, (ok I was lighter then than now) I've been on wormbloods that still asked when are you getting on as their owner is bigger than me.

Now I have a 14.2/14.3hh (really need to get him messured) cob that has had my friend ride him that is 18 stone! She was only going to walk, as second time riding, got very brave and attempted trot. To then do a slow mow fall out the side door. Cob looked quite happy with her on as he could wonder about as much as he wanted.

So I think it depends on horse, and build.
 
yes-but what do you use to judge against? Where does the notion of 'damage' come from-anecdotal eveidence? Livery yard opinions?
It seems to me that people are very definite about a certain 'weight' they will not allow above, e.g 10stone on tbs is often quoted on here, and above 13/14stone obviously the rider needs a heavyweight animal yet how many people that weight are riding animals considered unsuitable with no problems?
There are obviously horses that can be seen struggling, although the same can apply with too big, lightweight riders on very samll ponies (a balance issue!).
 
The categories for showing are - light weight hunter carries up to 12 1/2 stone, middle 12 1/2 to 14 and heavyweight over 14. However exactly what light middle & heavy are is up for discussion but yes usually the size of bone ie the horse's leg size. LW cobs (up to 9 inches of bone) carry up to 14 stone. HW (over 9) carry 14 stone +.

Just to confuse further a good balanced 'heavier' rider will feel lighter to a horse than an inexperienced 'lighter' rider
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What a confuddle - I say get on & if the legs don't buckle RIDE ON lol
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I tend to agree with your barneykins, if the horse shows no sign of struggling with the workload, then that suggests to me he is not over-ridered; so to speak.
I can only think of perhaps 2 people I've seen in my entire horsey experience who were very obviously under-horsed-one was so large the horse couldn't really manage at all and fell jumping mainly due I felt due to the rider.
It all seems ratehr artbitary to me... And I'm not convinved either about the showing categories...
 
Anyone who just has a weight limit is probably a bit of a wally, as it depends on so many things. Like the balance of the rider and what they are going to be doing. 10stone for a TB isn't a logical max as national hunt jockeys weigh more than that and ride them at gallop over big fences!
 
my oh occationally rides my 14.2 welsh X, he is 6ft and 14 stone but not an once of fat, she carries him fine but he only really plods round the lanes and a bit of trot.....I wouldn't want that weight on her oftern even though she carries him without showing any difficulty
 
chestnut_mare-if she shows no difficulty, why not have that on her regularly? This is the sort of thing I'm trying to get reasons for.
 
Oh just remembered one of the ponies at my yard - a 14.2 TB type went consistently lame when it's too heavy owner got on. Not lame lame but slightly uneven & looked wrong. Was fine when wee light girl got on. Others (I imagine) would buck, resist, maybe stop at jumps, get back problems.
 
How do you judge someones weight. Most people wouldn't guess mine.
When I worked with horses it were assumed I was around 9 stone and was often used to ride the ponies and lighterweight horses. I was in fact 10.5 stone.
My 13 yr old daughter is heavier now than I was when I was in my 20's. She is tall and very slim and also rides my 2 ponies.
Your average male, I'd have thought, is around 12/13 stone and look at what some of out showjumpers/eventers have their horses doing...think Hickstead Derby and suchlike.
As for showing...most hunters can carry more than is acceptable in showing and probably do when actually hunting.
Fitness and conformation have to come into it obviously but your average horse can carry alot more than most think.
 
I agree, it depends a lot on rider ability as well as the horse. A sympathetic and balanced heavier rider is better than an unbalanced but slightly lighter rider.

As for the horse as a general rule it can carry around 25% of it's bodyweight (including saddle.) It also depends on bone, how fit and well muscled the horse is, conformation (shorter back, wide loins,) breed and size.

I weigh around 8st, I'm 5'4 and ride a 14.2 cob daily but have ridden shetlands, welsh ponies, NF ect. not all have been chunky ponies and have been from about 11hh+ They dealt with it just fine but I did look a bit silly. Some horses can carry more than you would imagine.
 
Elwyn Hartley Edwards did a chart based on the amount of bone a horse has. Obviously you have to take age, fitness and general build into consideration as well. The rough guide was 8" of bone below the knee up to 11 or 12 stone, 9 - 10 inches of bone up to 13 or 14 stone, and 10 to 11 inches of bone 15 stone or over. I do think that quite often people ride horses they are too heavy for!
 
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- I say get on & if the legs don't buckle RIDE ON lol
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me too
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I was watching a documentary about the Himalayas...there were rather large men playing polo on very fine arab-y looking horses ...horses didnt seem to have any problems carrying the men at all.
 
Caribb - Good question?? She's shown no difficulty so far but has just been diagnosed with arthritis so would rather put no more pressure on her joints than nessesary
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He only rides her about once every 2 months when I borrow a friends horse and we go for a hack together. I think She could comfortably take 12 stone for all activities.
Heres a pic of my OH (all 14 stone of him) on her.......

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riding very casual in jeans and trainers lol, I dont think he looks huge, do you?
 
But how do you come to the conclusion that the people are too heavy for their horses? I think that's the point of the post.

I posted a picture of my mare since I thought people would be suprised that I am 12 stone and she is a 14.3hh tb. On paper that probably sounds massive, but she quite happily carries me for 3hours+ out hunting and pops round sponsored rides over some meaty jumps. She never comes up lame or anything so surely I can't be that much too heavy?
 
zoom was probably carrying some pretty heavy men when she was playing polo, and they would have been riding fast and leaning off etc.

So I would have thought she'd be ok with over 12stone without difficulty, especially if hacking and schooling rather than jumping and galloping, and especially if a good rider.

Most people underestimate what horses can carry.
 
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Elwyn Hartley Edwards did a chart based on the amount of bone a horse has. Obviously you have to take age, fitness and general build into consideration as well. The rough guide was 8" of bone below the knee up to 11 or 12 stone, 9 - 10 inches of bone up to 13 or 14 stone, and 10 to 11 inches of bone 15 stone or over. I do think that quite often people ride horses they are too heavy for!

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Where do Arabs come into this?...they are weight carriers but have legs like sticks
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Re: The chart and the 25% -where did these come from? Why do you believe them?
This sort of thing always interests me as these have been quoted for years as the correct method, but how were they devised?
 
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Re: The chart and the 25% -where did these come from? Why do you believe them?
This sort of thing always interests me as these have been quoted for years as the correct method, but how were they devised?

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Well the general rule of 20-25% comes from various books and magazines. I don't have a clue where it comes from and I wouldn't use it as a hard and fast rule either and that is why I also put several other considerations as well.

Also arabs have denser bone so wouldn't really fit on the chart.
 
I am 10.5/11 stone-depending on what I've eaten that day :P- and I have ridden everything from fine tbs to big cobs, and I used to regulaly ride a 13.2 Heinz 57 cob-type that carried me for hours no problem-I just looked a little ridiculous!. I don't think there is any hard or fast rule, it just depends on how you ride, how fit the horse is etc. If you are too heavy for a horse chances are you'll know, and if you don't I hope someone would tell you! The horse will obviously struggle, not perform as well as they can, and may well show intermittent lameness when being ridden by said person-in general they won't look/feel comfy.
 
and just to prove (and to remember quite how ridiculous I looked!)...was possibly slightly lighter, but she happily took my brother for a stroll and he was 12st +

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I ambuilt for comfort, rather than spped and ride a 14.2 coloured native (think piebald Dales).
I worried about my weight on her, but if she is able to prat about, jog, pull and be generally full of the joys of life, then I reckon I'm ok.

Dales were bred to carry a 14stone farmer, plus a bale of hay to outlying animals in the winter.

I do worry if my backside is bigger than hers though................
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