Jump Saddle Fitting Problems

[Escada2004]

i have a 6yo WB x ISH mare, she is still slightly bum high, has a very flat back, not much wither and big shoulders. The problem im having is everything seems to go up her neck when jumping. She has a huge jump and really flicks her back end up. Ive tried a JW CC, Equipe Expression Special and a Prestige Roma Jump on her and all go up her neck, the equipe seems to be the best so far but still not great as its also restricting her shoulder when is slips. Has anyone else had this problem? I haven't got funds to buy an expensive brand new saddle so looking for something i can get second hand. I have a saddle fitter coming out next week however my experience of most are all they want to do is get you to buy a brand new 2k plus saddle from them hence asking you guys to

 

[ljohnsonsj]

If equipes are relatively good why don't you try a synergy? Generally a much better saddle than the expression!

 

[Escada2004]

If equipes are relatively good why don't you try a synergy? Generally a much better saddle than the expression!

i wasnt sure how different the shape would be? i much prefer riding in the equipe to so if i can get one that fits that would be better. They dont come cheap though thats the problem! I dont mind an older one, its just finding one and then having one to try, rather than buying one and it still not fitting. A friend has a medium width one but its too tight so haven't jumped in it so cant tell if if would go up her neck or not

 

[ljohnsonsj]

i wasnt sure how different the shape would be? i much prefer riding in the equipe to so if i can get one that fits that would be better. They dont come cheap though thats the problem! I dont mind an older one, its just finding one and then having one to try, rather than buying one and it still not fitting. A friend has a medium width one but its too tight so haven't jumped in it so cant tell if if would go up her neck or not

The synergys are a much better tree, they are more expensive but compared to how an expression is made they are a million percent better. Can't help you in the way of fit, but I know they are much better than expressions.

 

[Escada2004]

The synergys are a much better tree, they are more expensive but compared to how an expression is made they are a million percent better. Can't help you in the way of fit, but I know they are much better than expressions.

ok thanks, will see if i can find a wider one to try

 

[Llee94]

I have a MW expression on my big shouldered cob x mare and it fits her really well. The synergy didn't fit but I could only track one down second hand in a medium. They both looked and felt very similar though.

 

[Escada2004]

I have a MW expression on my big shouldered cob x mare and it fits her really well. The synergy didn't fit but I could only track one down second hand in a medium. They both looked and felt very similar though.

thanks, i have a MW expression at the moment on her, its the best ive tried but still goes up her neck when jumping :-(

 

[Wheels]

do you have any pics of your horse without tack?

You say she has not much wither and a flat back but the saddles you've mentioned there are relatively curved in the tree and in some cases curvy panels too - does she also have a forward girth groove?

 

[Escada2004]

do you have any pics of your horse without tack?

You say she has not much wither and a flat back but the saddles you've mentioned there are relatively curved in the tree and in some cases curvy panels too - does she also have a forward girth groove?

yes i have a fairly recent photo of her but having trouble uploading them to here? Not sure about the girth groove, sorry i sound a bit stupid!

 

[Escada2004]

 

[Wheels]

Hmm... well I wouldn't say he was *that* flat in the back, there is a gentle curve there but he does have a forward girth groove and he does look a little croup high in the pictures = saddles will easily be pushed forwards as his back is not level + it will be pulled forwards

the girth groove is basically the part of the horse where the girth sits once it is done up - the ideal is that when you saddle up the girth should lie vertically from the saddle and should sit comfortably in the girth groove. In your horses case when the saddle is placed in the correct position the girth will be angled forwards and even if you do it up vertically as the horse moves the girth will move forwards too and then the saddle will be pulled forwards by the girth!

So I would be looking for something that is relatively flat in the tree and panels and also has different girthing options - a point strap maybe, 4 girth straps or a V girthing system (although these are more usually found in Dressage saddles)

 

[Escada2004]

Hmm... well I wouldn't say he was *that* flat in the back, there is a gentle curve there but he does have a forward girth groove and he does look a little croup high in the pictures = saddles will easily be pushed forwards as his back is not level + it will be pulled forwards

the girth groove is basically the part of the horse where the girth sits once it is done up - the ideal is that when you saddle up the girth should lie vertically from the saddle and should sit comfortably in the girth groove. In your horses case when the saddle is placed in the correct position the girth will be angled forwards and even if you do it up vertically as the horse moves the girth will move forwards too and then the saddle will be pulled forwards by the girth!

So I would be looking for something that is relatively flat in the tree and panels and also has different girthing options - a point strap maybe, 4 girth straps or a V girthing system (although these are more usually found in Dressage saddles)

Thank you, she does look a little more curved in the photos but inst.dead straight. What saddles tend to have the flatter tree in your opinion?

 

[Wheels]

I'd be looking for an English make, some of the ideals are flatter, some black Country, ah saddles etc

But the girthing system is just as important

Wow saddles and option too, second hand you can pick them up for a decent price if you can't afford new

 

[millitiger]

I had this issue with loads of saddles on my mare.

She is in a Fairfax split panel and it doesn't budge an inch- great not to be sat on her ears on landing!!

 

[gunnergundog]

Albion revelation has worked a treat for my 6 year old croup high ned. The Fairfax was also good on the horse, but they don't make it in an 18" seat which is what my long legs require.

 

[Goldenstar]

If you could get a patriot that ideal make for Stirlingshire saddlery it might be a good choice sadly they are like hens teeth second hand .
Have you tried a fairfax girth on your current saddle ?

 

[Escada2004]

thank you everyone, i will do some googling!

Goldenstar - no i havent tried a fairfax girth, is there a specific one and do they do them as a stud girth?

 

[LeannePip]

my mare has a very forward girth groove which made all her saddles slide up her neck, even more so as she was young and very weedy with no shoulder, saddler recommended the Harry Dabbs curved girth, which has all but fixed it - she's much more built up now but with out this girth everything still goes forward

 

[Goldenstar]

thank you everyone, i will do some googling!

Goldenstar - no i havent tried a fairfax girth, is there a specific one and do they do them as a stud girth?

You need to measure your horse between his forelegs to see if he's a normal or a narrow gauge one .
They do make a stud girth .
I would borrow one if at all possible becaus ethe cost is ekkkk .

 

[Escada2004]

my mare has a very forward girth groove which made all her saddles slide up her neck, even more so as she was young and very weedy with no shoulder, saddler recommended the Harry Dabbs curved girth, which has all but fixed it - she's much more built up now but with out this girth everything still goes forward

Thanks LeannePip, ive just had a look and i cant see that they do a stud girth option? This is a must as she is ultra careful and smack her stud girth over every fence.

You need to measure your horse between his forelegs to see if he's a normal or a narrow gauge one .
They do make a stud girth .
I would borrow one if at all possible becaus ethe cost is ekkkk .

Goldenstar everything seems to cost ££££ when it comes to my horses ha ha!

 

[EmmaB]

Mine has a forward girth groove, everything flew up his neck, the saddler came and said she could fit a point strap but I ended up getting another saddle which had already got one and had no problems since so definitely worth considering. I don't think it would be too expensive to have one put on.

 

[sbloom]

Quite significantly croup high - you need a properly flat tree with a very short footprint and a shallow or no gusset at the back. Point strap and minimal close contact style panel. Most continental saddles will have rails that are too upright IMO, English trees and saddles in some cases have much more sloping rails to suit a wider back. The more you try and fit a long seat size and/or footprint the more you're running up the croup and will end up with bridging coming from the back, or digging in, or tipping forwards or all three. The flatter part of the back is very short.

Girths do not need to hang vertically though I know that's not what Wheels is actually saying, the girth will more usually end up in the girth groove, the saddle needs to be well back behind the shoulder, this means using the point strap and third in most cases, and angling the girth forwards, you shouldn't need a curved girth. If the fit of the saddle is correct and it is avoiding being shoved forwards by the bum then all this will work.

 

[Escada2004]

Quite significantly croup high - you need a properly flat tree with a very short footprint and a shallow or no gusset at the back. Point strap and minimal close contact style panel. Most continental saddles will have rails that are too upright IMO, English trees and saddles in some cases have much more sloping rails to suit a wider back. The more you try and fit a long seat size and/or footprint the more you're running up the croup and will end up with bridging coming from the back, or digging in, or tipping forwards or all three. The flatter part of the back is very short.

Girths do not need to hang vertically though I know that's not what Wheels is actually saying, the girth will more usually end up in the girth groove, the saddle needs to be well back behind the shoulder, this means using the point strap and third in most cases, and angling the girth forwards, you shouldn't need a curved girth. If the fit of the saddle is correct and it is avoiding being shoved forwards by the bum then all this will work.

Thanks sbloom, what makes/models of saddles would you recommended I try? Its a mine field as I was told by a saddle fitter the prestiege would be suitable, obviously not

 

[sbloom]

Sorry as a professional saddle fitter I'm not allowed to recommend. I do use my real name on here though if that helps.

 

[ellie_e]

I feel your PAIN!! I have the flattest backed mare ever, all the Amerigo/equipes etc are too curved for her so lift off her back. You need a flat tree, i'm using the Fairfax mono flap, it fits well, although I find the seat quite big. I'm hoping to get something else next year, saddler advised me to look at Albion (the mono flap one) and Bliss of London

 

[Escada2004]

I feel your PAIN!! I have the flattest backed mare ever, all the Amerigo/equipes etc are too curved for her so lift off her back. You need a flat tree, i'm using the Fairfax mono flap, it fits well, although I find the seat quite big. I'm hoping to get something else next year, saddler advised me to look at Albion (the mono flap one) and Bliss of London

Thanks, its a nightmare isnt it! Bliss of London has been recommended to me to, typically they were at scope last week but i didnt have my horse there, was jumping a friends. I may contact them and see what they suggest to, although they may be over my budget unless i can find a good 2nd hand one!

 

[Escada2004]

Ok so bit of an update! Saddle fitter brought a Walsall jump saddle to try, was still going forwards up her neck, slightly too wide and the back was bouncing up and down hitting me when i was trotting round. It was taken away to add a point strap and flock to alter width slightly and also help with the bouncing. Saddle come back, width fine, point strap made the bouncing worse and hence still no good! I tried a friends Nathaniel Underwood monoflap with a normal girth and it literally went forward about 1/2 an inch, tried it again with a very very slightly curved girth and it moved prob half a cm! So ive been trying to find one and cant! So are their any other similar shaped saddles around? Im at my whits end now :-(

 

[dixie]

http://www.sheephamsaddles.com/shop...el-underwood-calf-skin-jumping-saddle-mw-fit/

This any good?

 

[NiceNeverNaughty]

havent read all replies but have you looked at a black country wexford on a freedom tree?

 

[Escada2004]

http://www.sheephamsaddles.com/shop...el-underwood-calf-skin-jumping-saddle-mw-fit/

This any good?

thanks dixie, i have spoken to them but as its not the monoflap version it may still move

havent read all replies but have you looked at a black country wexford on a freedom tree?

Thanks NeverEver, no i havent, i will have a look, thank you. Just finding one to trial that may be the problem? Will have a google though