Jumping a horse with extravagant back end action?

[ecrozier]

Any help gratefully received! Roo's canter is really coming together now, a change of bit and lots of work on him being more responsive to my leg and 'on the aids' is starting to pay off, and I can shorten and lengthen etc much more successfully. However the backlash of this is that he is now jumping with such enthusiasm and using his back end so much that I am in danger of being jumped off :/

I was a bit off form yesterday at our clinic, but we did end up jumping quite a few fences around the 1m mark and didn't screw up all of them, which is good, but if in doubt about anything, he jumps really big and really kicks his heels up and back, which then jolts me forwards and out of balance.

I had a jump on my older horse on sat, and (not meaning to be overly self congratulating) can jump him pretty well I think. My dad took some pics and I'm in balance, on take off, in mid air, and on landing, with weight in my heels, soft knees and a good body position. However he only jumps up to 90cm comfortably, and doesn't launch himself into the air like roo. I've also had a jump on a friends horse up to 1m and again not had any issues so it's a specific problem I'm having with my unexpected talented jumping horse!!

I'm pretty confident the extravagance of roo's jump is down to pure enthusiasm/ability (trainer describes him as an 'out and out jumping horse'). My aspirations aren't great, but I need to crack this loss of balance issue sooner rather than later, as really would like to be competitive at lower level Bs.

Any advice/exercises I could try? I know what I WANT to be doing, but it seems like actually managing to do it is beyond me :/

Would I be best to stick at 80/90cm for the time being, where most of the time he doesn't rocket me out of the saddle? Or do i need to jump 90+ more often? Don't want to over jump him. But pootling around in my comfort zone isnt going to solve the problem....

Also anyone with any pics/video clips they can post of them jumping horses with big/extravagant jumps, ESP those with huge action through their back ends? And ESP if can show the descent/landing.


Thanks in advance....

 

[Escada2004]

I have had exactly the same with my youngster and even get a bad back myself because of it! Ive been training with Geof Glazzard who has helepd me a lotand basically he has got me not to go so forward over a fence as i was landing in a heap - another thing that i use is a sticky spray on my boots called sporty haft spray, this works wonders as it helps keep your leg in position i have also been practising sitting back quicker when landing - im affraid thats all the help i can give, but has worked for me and also the more you get used to the jump the easier it becomes - this is a still from a video of my mare last month

Probably similar to what you are experiencing?

Ive also found lots of grid work helps with getting your balance

 

[ecrozier]

Thanks Escada - that looks even more extreme than what I am struggling with - well done on sitting to that!! But that is definitely along the same lines, will try and think about those pointers. I'm pretty good at not going too far forward, older horse used to have a good emergency stop in him so I learnt to keep shoulders back and fairly upright. But I almost seem to sit up too quickly over the fence and accordingly come into contact with the back of the saddle!!

 

[Saratoga]

Have you tried slightly shorter stirrups? It may help you to get 'above' him a little more, so less chance of him whacking you up the bum!

I didn't notice yesterday what saddle you are in, is it nice and flat at the back?

 

[bounce]

I had this problem to start with as my boy is ultra careful and the back end was getting very high. I changed my saddle for one that was very flat and this helped significantly. Gradually he has learnt that it is not necessary to get the back end quite so high, although we still have moments and I have also adjusted to it more. It just takes a little time.

 

[ecrozier]

Bounce, thanks, I'm not sure time is going to improve this with roo as if anything, the more we jump, the higher his back end goes!! I'm not sure it's exactly that he is super careful, more just very athletic, if that makes sense?
Saratoga yes I think maybe I need to keep gradually shortening my stirrups. Im also wondering about the saddle. It's a Farmington event, I swapped to that last year from a GP and it is def better than that was, but it's not particularly flat - hold on will try and find a pic!

 

[ecrozier]

It's the second one down on this page:
http://www.sheresaddles.com/farrington-saddles.htm
Not particularly flat possibly this isn't helping my cause....?!

 

[KatB]

Would agree with the flat saddle suggestions...Itll allow you to keep your bum back without being in contact with him!

 

[ecrozier]

See I think that might be contributing to problem definitely Kat. I feel like I know what I want to do (heels down, bum back etc) but the simple physics of it don't quite work at the moment given the angle that his back is at when his hind legs are a mile in the air :/ the cantle of the saddle has almost nowhere to go except into my backside!!
Although weirdly I don't seem to struggle as much xc - perhaps because I am too wet to jump over 90cm xc!! Or perhaps because I'm not in such a hurry to get my bum back in the saddle, as am cantering away from a fence in more of a 2 point seat anyway?!?

 

[Escada2004]

Ooo thats what i forgot to mention the saddle! Thanks to the others that just reminded me i changed my mares saddle to a Stubben Roxane Jump Saddle with HUGE blocks and this made the world of difference as my mare was also quite sharp. It holds me in place much better and as mentioned above shorter stirrups could help, i only have short legs but ride short to

 

[KatB]

Xc you wont have as much of a problem as the jump is generally flatter than the round jump you ask for sjing!

 

[claire_p2001]

It is a nice problem to have a horse with a good back end I do sometimes get flung forward if Jack puts in a massive leap but can manage to get back in to position on the next stride sometimes they just take you by suprise! Keep practicing over the bigger fences and your position will become stronger work on jumping down a line where you have to sit up quickly to get him back for the next fence I always find this helps as you are consentrating on the next fence rather than the one you are going over.

 

[ecrozier]

Yes that's true Kat, instructor says its because he is now (rising 6) growing into his natural jump and all the canter work is allowing him to really use his hindquarters and make a very roud shape over a jump!
Very true Claire, I know it's a good problem to have once I learn to ride it! I guess practice makes perfect?!

 

[ihatework]

I can't help on the question in hand (other than to say Roo looked great!!) but did you avoid the storms on the way home?

I left earlier than you and ran into this just south of J9 !!!

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rare-type-storm-sparks-tornado-210613161.html

 

[measles]

Our boy didn't change his jump and consistently went this high over fences. A learnt to keep a secure lower leg position and to duck his head down as the roof approached...

 

[Saratoga]

I think the difference with going XC is that he will be more forward, and less likely to give you that kick up the bum when he's travelling. You are doing a great job with him though and the more confident you both get the less likely he is to throw you out of balance.

 

[ecrozier]

LOL Measles, love the 'duck to avoid roof' idea!! Will bear that in mind!!

Saratoga - thanks. Yes I think you are right re XC, he's certainly got the hang of travelling forward to a XC fence now. Just uploading vids/pics - how best to get your to you?
IHW - OMG! That is some storm! We heard an amazingly long rumble of thunder just as we were loading up at about 5.15, but we came back aylesbury way so missed the storm Must have been horrid driving through that! Out of interest - did you go M1? How long did that take you?

 

[Saratoga]

I'm glad we missed that storm!!! I bet that was scary!

Can do links on faceache, or email (I'll send you pm with it on). Thank you!

 

[ihatework]

LOL Measles, love the 'duck to avoid roof' idea!! Will bear that in mind!!

Saratoga - thanks. Yes I think you are right re XC, he's certainly got the hang of travelling forward to a XC fence now. Just uploading vids/pics - how best to get your to you?
IHW - OMG! That is some storm! We heard an amazingly long rumble of thunder just as we were loading up at about 5.15, but we came back aylesbury way so missed the storm Must have been horrid driving through that! Out of interest - did you go M1? How long did that take you?

Went Buckingham - Bicester - M40 J9 - A34 south!
The storm hit between J9 and Oxford, it was incredible, never seen anything like it!!

 

[ecrozier]

Will try and email, if not may have to upload somewhere as vids tend to be a bit hefty to email.
Same for you N? Photos will email fine.

 

[Saratoga]

I have a You Tube channel you can upload them all to if you like?

 

[ecrozier]

Happy to put on youtube if you send me details

 

[TarrSteps]

I hate to say as I'm not a huge fan of encouraging people to spend their money needlessly, but this may indeed be a saddle situation. There is a good reason the vast majority of top jumper riders have very similar saddles. The right thigh/knee support will help, but it's also about having room for your thigh and the right balance point. I know I will now be hunted down and shot for suggesting you even consider jumping in a saddle that's not already customised to your horse but might be worth having someone out with some options to try. (I won't suggest borrowing, 'cause, you know, that would be WRONG! )

 

[ecrozier]

Lol thanks Tarrsteps - you've seen us jump in that saddle as well, so def value your opinion! I will get my saddler out and try several under their guidance - fortunately he is a MW so she often has plenty in stock that we can try..... More expense on the horizon I think!

 

[ihatework]

I know someone with a MW amerigo if you want to try that, she needs to sell!

 

[lynds81]

I haven't read all the responses to this, so don't know if someone else has said it....

I would do loads of out of the saddle canterwork with really short stirrups (and don't balance on your hands) to really strengthen your lower leg. I've had a couple (and still have one) that jumps with a real kick from behind and that was what I was advised on a clinic I went on (and I like to think I had a pretty good lower leg anyway, but it really helped!)

 

[TarrSteps]

Lol thanks Tarrsteps - you've seen us jump in that saddle as well, so def value your opinion! I will get my saddler out and try several under their guidance - fortunately he is a MW so she often has plenty in stock that we can try..... More expense on the horizon I think!

I didn't comment on the day as didn't think it was a massive deal but no, I don't think a saddle like that is helping your cause, tbh. You can certainly make do but I suspect something a bit flatter, more forward cut and with something you can get your thigh against would give you a bit more security and let you stay above him a bit.

He certainly does have a kick!

Some of them are just like that. There are jumper riders who I'm sure have permanent whiplash!

I have a medium-ish (it's apparently a medium but fits a horse that takes a MW in other makes) Passier you could have a sit in if we can work a hand off. It's probably not what you'd like though as it's VERY flat and has tiny blocks. I still miss my Crosby, which was pretty much a skateboard.

 

[ecrozier]

IHW that would be amazing thanks. An thinking I will get KN back out with a load of saddles and also collect from Milwheel and Jods in Henley and see. If I have to go new, I have to go new, he is worth it I think
Lynds81 I will do that thanks, I struggle for places to canter him but hopefully our mates can move back onto their summer grazing soon (it's flooded!!) then we can use winter fields to canter a bit.
Tarrsteps it def makes more difference sj than xc. Most likely because xc I wimp out at 85/90 whereas sj we are trying to get up to and over 1m fairly regularly now. Might be worth trying the Passier although I think I might need reasonable blocks

 

[ecrozier]

Ps lol you have seen the photos then TS? Those illustrate the problem pretty well! Deliberating whether to post on here!

 

[TarrSteps]

Ps lol you have seen the photos then TS? Those illustrate the problem pretty well! Deliberating whether to post on here!

No, just remember on the day!