jumping advice

[Peanot]

Hi, I`ve had my mare for 2 yrs now and we are experiencing some problems whilst jumping.
As there are so many people jumping some decent courses on here, I am asking for your advice.
I have had some conflicting advice from people so just wondering what you thought would help...
On the way to a fence, how much leg do you use? Do you use leg all the way in or just a nudge on take off or the stride before take off?
Do you hold your contact all the way to the fence?
For the BSJA ers, do you have a forward canter or a slow balanced canter.
I am so confused at the minute and I could do with some advice so any would be gratefully received.
I am having regular lessons with someone who does very well doing BSJA in Fox.
Thanks. x

 

[bigboyrocky]

asking you trainer for advice would be the best thing, without seeing the horse or seeing you jump, then we cant really give you any advice

 

[Kelpie]

although I agree with what's said above re: asking your trainer, I'd probably also add that you'll probably actually that actually there will be different people that do things differently - some will use more leg than others, some will keep the contact over the jump some will give the horse their head, some will want a continued unchanging canter stride, some will want the horse to go for it a bit more.

I'm not, therefore, actually sure there is a right answer - it's just a question of finding out what works for you and your horse.

 

[mac]

As said it probably best to asl your trainer as you will get conflicting views on here

 

[CharlyOscar]

i haave always been told that jumping is flat work with fences, so you ride like you would on the flat and the jumps just happen to be in the way and you ride exactly the same. Thats what the international show jumpers say as well

 

[Munchkin]

What problems are you having?

You can only ride the horse you're sat on, as they say, so people are likely to adjust to what they are riding at the time. Some horses take you to a fence, some "back-pedal", so as said above it's very difficult to know how to advise you...

 

[diggerbez]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi, I`ve had my mare for 2 yrs now and we are experiencing some problems whilst jumping.
As there are so many people jumping some decent courses on here, I am asking for your advice.
I have had some conflicting advice from people so just wondering what you thought would help...
On the way to a fence, how much leg do you use? Do you use leg all the way in or just a nudge on take off or the stride before take off?
Do you hold your contact all the way to the fence?
For the BSJA ers, do you have a forward canter or a slow balanced canter.
I am so confused at the minute and I could do with some advice so any would be gratefully received.
I am having regular lessons with someone who does very well doing BSJA in Fox.
Thanks. x

[/ QUOTE ]

its difficult isn't it! I would say that ALL of the advice you have been given could be correct- it totally depends on the horse you are riding! so for my horse (a 4 year old) i have to keep the contact up until the last minute (otherwise he feels like i'm abandoning him and tries to stop) but in terms of leg i don't have to use loads unless its an especially scary fence- otherwise just a kick off the ground will do.i would say re. the canter (and i could be wrong, i'm no expert!) that you need to work on having a nice forward canter thats making progress before you can start slowing it up and balancing it- so when you watch john whit ride for example he looks to be going nowhere half the time- but that because his horses are so well schooled that the canter is incredibly powerful. most mere mortals jumping much lower have to go on a more forwards stride- if you sit and try to make it look too pretty your canter probably won't be powerful enough to make the distance in doubles and over oxers...thats what i find anyways

 

[MandyMoo]

it depends on the horse which methods you use tbh! for Bugsy i have to get a really good quality canter that is forward, i dont let go of his head until take off, and i dont stop giving leg until take off...he needs riding ALL the time round a course...

Monty and Dani however, i keep the contact up to the fence, but they only really need leg once i come off a corner a few strides before a fence.

i would ask your trainer xxx

 

[ellieplatt]

I compete BSJA regularly on my JC mare, and 6yo.
Every horse is different - and you should ask your trainer,

Though, normally i'll pop them into a nice bouncy forward canter with very little leg on the aproach, i tend to half-hault a lot, just because my mare wants to gallop to the fence and throw herself over it, I have to remind her she is not a steeplechaser!

With my 6yo she's a dream ride, a very nice smooth canter.. she doesnt rush at a fence. I just let her go on her comfy stride to a fence, giving little leg on the line up, though thats not to forward her, its just to tell her to focus

Gooodluck though - remember to ask your trainer

 

[rlhnlk]

Its dependant on the horse. One BSJA stride is 12 feet long, with my tb she has to be going quite fast to make that distance, but she is balanced whilst she is doing it. but some other long striding horses will need to be shortened which will slow them down. The top guys might look slow as they are so balanced but their speed limit is at least 350 mpm and is often 400mpm (I think). This is pretty quick really. I would say always hold a contact to the fence as its easier to prevent run outs this way.

I was always told the most important thing was to maintain a good forward consistent rythm and stride as it makes it so much easier to see a stride.

 

[nat_cal]

Depends on the horse im riding, my mare is tricky and stops so i have to ride her forward but not over ride her so leg on but not too much if that makes sense!!! Same with the contact if i hold the contact for too long she'll stop but equally if i drop it she'll stop!!!
The other mare i jump never stops so just a case of steering and keeping the contact so she doesnt rush but dont need much leg once she's set up for a fence.
On less experineced horses i tend to use a bit more leg and get a nice forward canter to give them a bit of confidence but again totally depends on the horse.
Definately worth asking your trainer though as they know you and your horse!!

 

[JustMe22]

Everyone's saying it, but I'll add my opinion too and agree that it depends on the horse.
Ride how you would on the flat.

I rode a few horses that 'take' you to the jump. The very forward kind that sees them and really wants to go. When thats the case, my leg is there but not on as such, and it only closes when they take off.
On mine, he needs to be pushed forward. Dressage has gotten him a very nice balanced slow canter, but he jumps much better out of a forward rhythm, so he needs a bit more leg. What I can't do though, is sudenly put on leg like 3 strides before the jump, because it messes up his rhythm and suddenly we're at an awkward stride.

For me, I keep contact until we reach the jump. Its there so the horse doesn't panic and wonder why i've dropped him. Its also to compress the canter a bit on approaching, so you can let the horse find a stride. And I find it helps if the horse has a tendency to run out.

Also, i tend to find rhythm is the most important thing. Keep a constant rhythm, don't go panicking a few strides out and suddenly start kicking like mad, because you are extremely likely to hit a bad stride if they start changing their rhythm just before the jump.

Ask your trainer, it helps to have somebody who knows what your horse needs and can watch from the ground and give you advice

 

[xspiralx]

As others have said, you have to adjust depending on the horse, but I'd say there are 3 things that should stay constant no matter what you're riding.

1. You should always keep the leg on, even on a horse that's pulling you into the fence. You're not necessarily asking for anything with the leg, but it should always be there to support the canter and act as an affirmation that you want to continue forward. I've been caught out before on a very strong forward horse that you felt the temptation to just sit and hold, but without the leg on, he was liable to duck out completely at the last minute.

2. I think you need to keep a contact all the way into the fence. Again, the strength of the contact depends on the horse and some horses need barely any, but you should always have the contact there to support the horse - if you drop the horse in front of the fence its just asking for a refusal. I had a nutty horse who couldn't stand any real contact, and he would always throw his head above the contact when he was jumping, but I had to keep it there - if I dropped him he felt insecure and would duck out.

3. A good showjumping canter is both forward and energetic - but that doesn't mean flat out or unbalanced, it should be contained energy. The pace to jump from depends on the preferences of horse and rider, but if you've got a good active canter with lots of energy, then you can't really go wrong.

Anyway, feel free to ignore my advice if you wish - I certainly don't have the competition credentials of some of the other posters, but those are three things that I've found are constant no matter what you're riding. Any variables within that depend entirely on what suits you and your mare, and there's no real right or wrong, its what works for you.

 

[Peanot]

Thanks everyone. There are a couple of interesting thoughts here as the problems I am having are that my mare is stopping!!!
This is what she used to do: go forward to fences but a little on her forehand, then land heavy, throwing me forwards, then take off on landing so I was forever fighting her to tell her where to go. I dont mean mental like some of the TBs that you see going round but if we had to go towards another fence before our jump, she would lock on to anything as she was strong. We used to have the odd fence down, we had 4 faultitis. lol On the videos she didnt look too bad at all just a little forward, she felt worse than she looked.
Now tho, my trainer has slowed us down so I have good control and I can alter our stride if I need to, and she doesnt flatten thro doubles or RDs like she used to.
BUT... she will throw in a stop every now and again.
My trainer has told me that I need to keep her slow and using herself, and that I need to keep my contact and not give it away at the last stride as she will stop. This makes sense, but I am now thinking is she stopping cos shes not going forward as when I take her to a training/schooling round, we do brilliantly and we jump 1m10 with no problems. Is this because I used more leg and more forwardness because of the height of the fences? Then a week later when I took her to a show and we entered the BN, we got eliminated with a stop at fence 1, then 3.

The following week I took her again, we did the 85cm to get her into it before the BN and she stopped at fence 3 and I came off. Someone has also suggested that it may be because the place where I took her was deep going, so not sure if that was the problem.
I have also been having lessons with a RWYM lady for my dressage horse and I think that my legs have crept too far back and my jump trainer has told me that I have to sit up more and put legs forward, which TBH it feels more secure but I wanted to know if I should be getting her going forward again as opposed to keeping her slow. Hence all the questions in the post...

When we do go the slow way, I do have to push thro the 2-non jumping strided doubles to make the distances and she has to stretch to make the 1njs doubles. Before we slowed her down, I used to have to check in the middle or she would land too close to the next element and take it out.
The last time I took her out, when I came off at fence 3, we went in again straight after HC and I used more leg, remembered to keep a contact, (as this helps her not to run onto forehand on landing and run off) shoulders back, leg on etc. I`m sure you all know what I mean when you`re jumping a course, my trainers words are going around my head all the time.
She used to be ridden, (previous owners) very strongly by a man with a big strong bit and big spurs. So when I got her, we were jumping some big fences lovely and she didnt stop at all and she was forward.
I know you have all said ask my trainer and I have but he says that I dont need to be any more forward until I`m out jumping Newcomers!!! But it doesnt seem to be working hence all the above questions. Now can you understand how I feel confused. Years ago, I used to jump in the opens locally and just kick on and win a lot but the more you learn, the harder it becomes and the more you want to get it right.

Thanks for all your replies so far and cookies for reading all this.

 

[xspiralx]

I'd say it sounds like you just need a lot more leg on! Being steady and balanced is good, but if she doesn't have enough momentum and energy then she will just stop.

It doesn't necessarily mean going faster, but just having a lot more energy, but contained. However I'd say if you need to up the pace marginally to get her more forward thinking then that's not a problem IMO, so long as you keep the balance and are still able to control the pace. There is no point in having a wonderfully pretty canter that isn't going anywhere, or is causing her to stop - you need to do what works for you and her, and if kicking on a bit does it, then personally I think thats what you should do - it is supposed to be fun! Just remember that the more leg you put on, the more energy there is to contain with the contact and seat to stop her getting flat and unbalanced

 

[jess_asterix]

Sorry if i am repeating anything aleady said i havn't read peoples replies.

There is a difference between going slow with no power and having a slow yet active canter with lots of impulsion.

You need to make sure you are riding into your hand the whole time and keeping a firm contact on the reins. Try to keep your leg on the whole way into a fence then nudge on take off to get the extra height, but do not drop your reins on the last stride as this gives them more of an excuse to stop.

Who is your trainer if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Peanot]

Hi, I`ve updated my post with problems I`m having. Thanks for your reply.

 

[Peanot]

Thank you. I`ve udated post with problems I`m having. x

 

[Peanot]

Thanks Mandy moo, I`ve updated with problems I`m having to give you some idea.

 

[jess_asterix]

Well if that is what your trainer is saying my personal opinion is..... Find yourself a new trainer!

 

[diggerbez]

i suspect that you hven't got enough of a forwards canter- is it any particular type of fence your horse is stopping at? but as others have said don't confuse 'forwards' with 'faster'- what you want to aim for is a big canter that is moving forward but is also nice and bouncey (so not all falling out the front end!

)- perhaps it might be a case of putting some poles out and practising lengthening and shortening- ie playing about with your canter until you get something that feels good. your canter should be about 3rd gear so when you turn the corner you can move it up a gear if you need or balance it back down...i have to say tho- if your trainer is confusing you then maybe you need to explain this to him and he might tell you more clearly- or maybe try someone else who can explain it more clearly? where are you based?

 

[mac]

Agreed that you need a new trainer.They may be good but the dont sound like they are working for you. I can see what they are trying to achieve but the problem they/you need to deal with first is the stopping as while she is stopping you have nothing to work with.

They have obviously said to slow the canter due to your previous issues but it seems to be creating more problems than it is solving. A quality canter is the basis for showjumping but this needs to be adapted according to the horse e.g. a warmblood will have an entirely different canter to your horse. By making you work harder in RDs to make your distance it is likely that you will arrive with more weight forward over the horses shoulders, the horse more on the forhand and you having less contact on her mouth.This will mean that she is more likely to stop your leaning forwards so your aready half way to falling off if she does.

 

[Peanot]

lol, yes thats what trainer says Mac, that I am not sitting back enough so when she stops I come off.
Both my horses are WBs and the SJ one has a very bouncy canter. Tho since slowing her down, some of the bounce has gone... She is very pingy too but with slowing her down, her jump is more slower, tho not flat, and she now opens her shoulders, folds better, makes a better shape and finishes off behind. When at home, we have a lovely canter and she never stops! Its just out at a show! which is worse cos you cant do anything about her stopping if she doesnt do it at home!
The advice given on here by most of you has been the same as my trainer tells me, about the contact, leg etc but I do feel that a more powerful, forward canter is the way to go. My trainer came with me when I came off last time and when I came out of the arena after getting her round, I said to him that it may not have looked pretty but I needed to get her to finish, and he said yes you did what you had to but it looked ok.
When I watched the video, it actually looked ok but it felt faster. I will see if I can upload a video of a training round in photobucket or u-tube so as you can see what I mean.
It is very interesting listening to peoples advice as it all clicks in with what is happening. Thanks to all. x

 

[Peanot]

Thanks Diggerbez, I too think that the answer is also in the canter. She does have a lovely big bouncy canter but with asking her to go slower, she has lost a bit of the bounce.
I am based in Leicestershire/derbyshire border.
It isnt any sort of fence that she is stopping at, just random.
When they are bigger, I tend to use more leg and ask for more forwardness and she doesnt have a problem with fillers or anything, when I slow her down and they are small fences, she`ll stop just because she can.

I am even tempted to just take her in a 1m05 class so she can go more forward and I`ll use more leg.

x

 

[millitiger]

i would perhaps look at another trainer tbh.

some horses do like to jump with a bit of pace and not all horses like that slow, very collected canter.

my horse Pilfer likes to jump with a bit of pace and you have a strong contact into the fence.
my leg is always there to pick him up if needed, but i let him jump with a bit of freedom and more forwards than some.

he went on loan recently and in the last year was stopping with the girls as their (very good 4**** eventer) trainer was making them come to the fences too slowly and Pilfer was starting to refuse as that is just not the way he jumps.

he was stopping at pretty much every event for a while and even ended up with his first ever Elimination in 7 seasons of eventing.

since he has been home, he has been perfect and hasn't tried to stop once with me as i have had the canter much more forwards and powerful and he finds it much easier to jump from that.

i think reading your posts you know that you need to open the canter up a bit- it is just hard sometimes to go against what your trainer says!

 

[mac]

Post a link if you do upload a video to youtube. It will help you keep your upper body back if your lower leg is forward as you tend to pivot forward with no support unless you have very good core stability

 

[nat_cal]

I totally sympathise with you with the stopping, my mare is just the same. I used to go in the ring and canter round in a lovely pretty collected canter that wasnt really going anywhere and then wonder she stopped!!

I think i was scared to ride her forwards as she can be quite strong over fences.
My trainer has been fantastic and reminded me that though she is very forward going i should still ride her forward and not hold on to her in to a fence. I tend to either hang on to her or not have enough contact going in hence the stopping. It is really hard when you have a horse that stops as i find with every stop my confidence goes a bit more

I found the best thing was to drop down a level and go back to basics to get the technique right without worrying about the height.
Good luck

 

[Peanot]

Here is a link to see a typical jump from one of our lessons.
Please comment now you can see our canter.
Thanks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jXfwHVLtOM

 

[Peanot]

Thanks Millitiger, that is hopeful. I have posted a link to show how the canter is in our lesson. Looking at videos from when I first had her, her canter was more forward and we didnt have a problem. Please have a look and see what you think.
Thanks
x

 

[mac]

Who is the trainer? pm if you want. Looks like a nice horse and i think your description was very critical as its not as bad as it sounded.