Jumping in standing martingale - your views?

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I've twice seen horses at competitions jumping in standing martingales. Both classes were 1m / 1.05m so not HUGE but fairly substantial. The one martingale was 'boingy' (flexible) the other was leather, so not.

I am personally uncomfortable with it, as is my friend who is a qualified AI, but not being a jumper myself (well, not competitive) I am happy to stand corrected.

I also thought they weren't allowed, but has this rule changed?

What are the general views about this, just out of interest?
 
I wouldn't unless it was too lose to do any good as a martingale...

We had a horse here briefly who's nose is buggered by some little s*** jumping her in a standing martingale.

So I will be interested to see what justifications people can come up with for using them when I've seen first hand the damage they do!
 
Have been allowed for quite a few years now.

As long as they are not too tight I don't have a problem with them.
 
eggs said:
Have been allowed for quite a few years now.

As long as they are not too tight I don't have a problem with them.
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I ride my ex racer in a standing martingale. He is a rearer and if he does not have one on he runs around with his nose in the air. He is a very clever little horse and tests to see if I have put the martingale on and if he discovers that I have not attached it he plays all sots of games....

He has also full on head butted me in the face as he had a strop in front of a fence decided he knew better and head butted me as he threw his head up in the air.

I hasten to add that I have schooled and schooled him to try and correct this but at 18 years old I think it is a case of old dog new tricks. Also The highest I jump is about 3ft 3. I have found that it is definitely safer in this instance to jump (and ride in general) in a standing martingale. However, it is important to ensure that any martingale is fitted properly. (Anticipates being shot down in flames for this reply.....)
 
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AndiK said:
I ride my ex racer in a standing martingale. He is a rearer and if he does not have one on he runs around with his nose in the air. He is a very clever little horse and tests to see if I have put the martingale on and if he discovers that I have not attached it he plays all sots of games....

He has also full on head butted me in the face as he had a strop in front of a fence decided he knew better and head butted me as he threw his head up in the air.

I hasten to add that I have schooled and schooled him to try and correct this but at 18 years old I think it is a case of old dog new tricks. Also The highest I jump is about 3ft 3. I have found that it is definitely safer in this instance to jump (and ride in general) in a standing martingale. However, it is important to ensure that any martingale is fitted properly. (Anticipates being shot down in flames for this reply.....)
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No shooting you down in flames. I had a horse who would behave in a similiar fashion so when hacking, a standing martingale would be put on with an elastic insert. It was a favourite trick to head butt, drop a shoulder and spin. I did however, school him without which is just as well as his forte was dressage. I didn't try jumping him though except for grid work as he was far too quirky. Grids were fine as he felt comfortable. Questions over jumping were not.

I am however, unclear on the rulings about what you can jump in them. On the basis that I have seen showjumpers with draw reins on at Hickstead warm up I would have thought that a standing might well be OK.

Safety first!
 
Andik - no it sounds like you have a good reason to be using one - if it's what works, then so be it :) But if it's not for a rearer.....
 
I used one until recently and jumped and won BSJA with it. It was a very loosely fitted elastic insert one, designed only to come into play if he chucked his head very high to evade the contact. He did this because he came to me as an unbalanced 12 year old and it helped me reschool him by taking away one of his evasion routes. Basically it just helped him break the habit. I tried a running martingale first but it made the problem worse as he would pull his head forwards to loosen it and then up.

Its certainly worked as I no longer need a martingale of any description with him and yesterday finished a hunter trials without one. That said, I can see how I might occassionally have to put it back on for a schooling session just to remind him.
 
Fine but only in the right hands, BSJA rules allow it. Helps very much with those horses who star gaze in to fences!
 
I think it one of those things.... Before I got my boy I would have said NOOOOOOOO to a standing martingale being used for jumping but its whatever works. It was a friend of mine who suggested the standing to me when we were talking about the problems I was having... He is a super jumper and very well behaved - until you remove the standing. I am not sure if he realises or not or if its just something that gives me (then him in turn) confidence.... I will see if I can post a piccie of him jumping.... (not brilliant with all this technology though....)
 
Running martingales are a relatively new (and much over-used) fashion. There's little wrong with using a correctly fitted standing martingale on most jumping occasions on a horse that needs it. Certainly if you go back a couple of decades and look at XC and SJ pictures at the highest level you will see them being used.

I would normally not use a martingale - haven't really had a need for them - but we have had the odd head chucker and I'd rather have a standing on him (and save my daughter's teeth) than have her and him both scared by his flinging his head.

I suspect that the panic about them is caused by the myriad of people who don't understand what they are for, nor the correct fitting of them - often the same people that have a running martingale on their horse without any understanding of why or what it is doing, or a crank noseband or a flash.
 
Stroller-hr.jpg


Years ago, it was common, along with snaffles and drop nosebands (not attached to martingales obviously) I can't find many photos to illustrate my point, but the above is just an example, and you can't get a lot more famous than that one. ;)

I wonder how much better, if at all, the great horses of yesteryear would have been without wearing standing martingales? Their riders must have been getting something right.

No comment to make on current usage, other than that as far as I am concerned it is a case of 'know your horse' and I am no more qualified to comment on individual usage of a martingale than I am on the various gadgets and bits used by showjumpers of today on their own horses.
 
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I'd far rather see a standing martingale used than a running martingale.

A running martingale has a strong effect on the horses mouth, when the martingale comes into use it alters the angle of the bit and jams it into the roof of the mouth causing the horse discomfort. If the rider is not too good at giving with the rein the effect is even more severe.

A standing martingale on the other hand socks the horse on the nose so doesn't affect his sensitive mouth. I always teach my horses to jump wearing a standing martingale as I want them to jump with confidence and not to fear that they will be jabbed in the mouth. To date - 40+years I've rarely had to resort to a running martingale in competitions.

Correctly fitted a standing will not affect the horses ability to stretch it's head and neck over a fence. A running martingale relies on the rider to release the rein to give the freedom - something that does not always happen.

Just read the UK rules and standings are allowed. In NZ we have a restriction on the height of fences at to wether they can be used - 1.10m for horse, 1.05m for ponies.

Jemima too - Not sure how many years you consider that a running is a 'new' piece of equipment I've been riding since the early 60's and they were around then.

What we see now is that riders seem to want to have everything on their horses - the latest multi jointed bit/noseband/numnah. We used to get on fine with an eggbut snaffle - one joint, and a cavesson noseband. We endevoured to school so that our horse would go well in theis conservative combination. Hunters wore double bridles and standings.
 
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jemima_too said:
Running martingales are a relatively new (and much over-used) fashion. There's little wrong with using a correctly fitted standing martingale on most jumping occasions on a horse that needs it. Certainly if you go back a couple of decades and look at XC and SJ pictures at the highest level you will see them being used.

I would normally not use a martingale - haven't really had a need for them - but we have had the odd head chucker and I'd rather have a standing on him (and save my daughter's teeth) than have her and him both scared by his flinging his head.

I suspect that the panic about them is caused by the myriad of people who don't understand what they are for, nor the correct fitting of them - often the same people that have a running martingale on their horse without any understanding of why or what it is doing, or a crank noseband or a flash.
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I have also noticed in recent years this exact same thing. You see some horses with every bit of tack and boots a rider can cram on it. The one I notice nowadays is everyone uses a running martingale but has a breastplate aswell as the martingale and everyone uses back pads.... I only use what I need to. When I brought my ex racer I started with the minimum and then added what we needed to. He has a flash as he can take a hold and the way he avoids listening to you is to just wack his head in the air and open his mouth. I use a standing for reasons described earlier. His is close behind so I use fetlock boots and when he prats about he can do some seriously inventive things with his legs so I use tendon boots to protect his front legs. I also use a pro pad saddle cloth with the gel pad 'built' in rather that using an extra layer as this stops me feeling like I am sat miles above the horse due to the amount of layers under the saddle.... LOL!
 
AndiK said:
Enfys - how did you post that photo???
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See if you can follow this, there is bound to be a much easier method of doing it than my long winded, round the houses way, but for a complete techno-twit like me it does the job:o I think I do this:

Find the photo, right click on it---> click properties ---> copy and paste the url img code---> back to HHO ---> click on the Insert image icon (above the reply box, looks like a postcard to me) ---> paste the code ---> delete the first http:/ ---> and cross my fingers it works.


Note: From looking at other photos of Stroller he was wearing a running martingale in them, perhaps my eyes are squiffier than I thought with regard to that first photo I put up and it was not a good example.

Meteor and Fritz Thiedemann I believe, around 1959, and I need new glasses, he's using in a german martingale on closer inspection, what's the modern opinion on using those then?
Fritz-Thiedemann-Meteor-1959-550x710.jpg


Lots of photos here:
http://www.facebook.com/Showjumpingnostalgia?sk=wall

http://www.showjumpingnostalgia.com/
 
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I'm not sure where this very new bandwagon of opinion has come from that standing martingales cannot be jumped in?
It seems to be set now as an urban myth.

They are absolutely fine to jump in as long as they are adjusted properly and were commonly seen on some of the world's best show jumpers so clearly if fitted correctly they do not inhibit the horse.

The running is more fashionable now, the same way the flash is more fashionable than the drop.
 
Nothing wrong with them when fitted and used correctly like any other piece of tack. I used to wear one on my horse (long but not elasticated) and it never hindered his technique, just stopped him from making like a giraffe in between the jumps. I probably wore it for a max of 3-6 months :)

However, I recently saw a guy at a BS show, obviously v popular local who could not fit tack to save his life. His poor horse was barely able to jump, and he no doubt will ruin its currently pretty good technique under the circumstances. He had another horse with a flash fitted so low, it was almost not on the horse face - I wonder how long his horses will continue jumping for him?
 
Not a problem if fitted correctly, for jumping at any height. I tend not to use a martingale on any horses once they are established, but with reschooling the often misguided efforts of others, for my own safety and the comfort of the horse I will use a standing martingale.
 
I have to say when I read these threads I do wonder at the ages of the posters and how that relates to what they consider "normal".

Jemima (nearly fifty!)
 
I'm not old (26) but I would jump in a standing martingale if I had a horse which needed one.

I was always told that standing martingales didn't stop horses stretching their necks out, just from boshing you on the nose (but in fairness I do have an old school mother) so have never thought of it as a problem. She hunted her mare in a standing as it star gazed horribly.

I ride my horse without boots, in a french link snaffle and a cavesson so clearly my mother had some bearing on me!! I do use a breast plate though as I like having something grab on to when things get scary. Is that ok?

O and just so we can all have a giggle, I went to Keysoe for some BS recently as a groom and I kid you not, one girl had the standing AND running attachment for her breastplate on at the same time! Why?!
 
I've only ever used one on a rearer, back in the days when sitting on her and surviving was more of a priority than jumping!

I seem to spend my life loosening or removing the damn things from ponies who's owners seem to think it's a strap for holding horses in an outline. Which is why I hate them.

That, and spurs. Don't get me started on spurs...

I'm 24 and I'm a proud member of the frenchlink snaffle, snaffle noseband and no strapping down of the head club! (although, her ladyship is in a martingale at the moment due to me needing a helping hand with her reschooling!)
 
Enfys said:
Meteor and Fritz Thiedemann I believe, around 1959, and I need new glasses, he's using in a german martingale on closer inspection, what's the modern opinion on using those then?
Fritz-Thiedemann-Meteor-1959-550x710.jpg
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The correct name for this is a Market Harborough - German Martingale is a modern name.

They are still permitted to ride in and can be a great help to keep the ears out of your nostrils. I have used them on horses that like to throw their heads up when you ask for canter it just helps to keep their heads down so that they learn to strike off in canter more rounded.
 
a correctly fitting standing martingale should not affect them at all when jumping. A standing with an elastic insert is even better when jumping.
As for thinking a standing is more severe than a running, this is simply not true, the standing only adds pressure to the nose whereas a running affects the mouth. IMO, fitted correctly a standing can do less damage than a running.
 
Great fan of standing martingales!! Running martingales wrongly fitted and in the wrong hands exert more pressure on the horse's mouth. Often take running martingales off children's ponies and use them as a standing. They are allowed in most disciplines, but not BE. Never seen a horse have a problem with one regardless of the height/width of a fence. If my horses need a martingale at all then it is always a standing.
 
I suspect that the panic about them is caused by the myriad of people who don't understand what they are for, nor the correct fitting of them - often the same people that have a running martingale on their horse without any understanding of why or what it is doing, or a crank noseband or a flash.
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This.

They're a really useful piece of kit provided they're fitted properly; not seen so often in competition these days but pretty common on the hunting field - and would hardly be used if they restricted the horse in an environment where they are jumping big hedges on unpredictable ground.
 
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