Jumping in standing martingale - your views?

AndiK said:
You can still get pretty decent flash nose bands. I have one of these nosebands
22520082213Stubben-Padded-Flash.jpg
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But in order for the flash to work the cavesson has to be cranked tight. Tight cavessons can cause tooth and ulceration problems. The one you've shown is a crank so presumably you don't mind about that, however with a "normal" cavesson the flash will pull the noseband down over time, losing the effectiveness of the flash whilst at the same time increasing the pressure of the cavesson on the teeth and inside of the cheeks.

But then I have a thing about tight cavessons, as you've probably gathered, and wouldn't use one given any alternative.
 
To be fair I do not crank the cavesson tight at all and the flash is only done up enough to stop my horse from opening his mouth. He is comfortable and as I have owned him for six years now and ridden him with this tack for the majority of this time with no resulting mouth or teeth or bitting problems I fell that I can not be doing it wrong. Not only have I had no problems but the set up suits him and it works so he is responsive to my aids, the bit and my hand.
 
missieh said:
Definitely do not jump in a standing martingale, far too restrictive
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Not if fitted correctly - they give ample room for the horse to stretch over the jump.

jemima_too said:
But in order for the flash to work the cavesson has to be cranked tight.
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A Flash noseband should NOT be cranked tight! It should be fitted with two fingers at the front of the nose and the flash strap done up to allow the horse to relax it's jaw - teeth not jammed tight together.

95% of people do up their flash noseband incorrectly.

A crank noseband should not be done up so tight as to jam the jaws together - the term 'Crank' is the system that applies to the way the strap works over a roller, folds back on itself to do up. It's a physics thing!

To be able to relax the jaw the horse has to be able to drop its bottom jaw so that the teeth are apart. Consider how you would feel if you had to run with your top and bottom teeth jammed against each other - uncomfortable.
 
evelyn said:
not if fitted correctly - they give ample room for the horse to stretch over the jump.



A flash noseband should not be cranked tight! It should be fitted with two fingers at the front of the nose and the flash strap done up to allow the horse to relax it's jaw - teeth not jammed tight together.

95% of people do up their flash noseband incorrectly.

A crank noseband should not be done up so tight as to jam the jaws together - the term 'crank' is the system that applies to the way the strap works over a roller, folds back on itself to do up. It's a physics thing!

To be able to relax the jaw the horse has to be able to drop its bottom jaw so that the teeth are apart. Consider how you would feel if you had to run with your top and bottom teeth jammed against each other - uncomfortable.
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hear hear!!!
 
echo evelyn, UGH! about cranking tight flashes that squish the cheeks into the teeth.

Loving everyone waxing on about not using standings to jump in, wowee!
 
Evelyn said:
Not if fitted correctly - they give ample room for the horse to stretch over the jump.



A Flash noseband should NOT be cranked tight! It should be fitted with two fingers at the front of the nose and the flash strap done up to allow the horse to relax it's jaw - teeth not jammed tight together.

95% of people do up their flash noseband incorrectly.

A crank noseband should not be done up so tight as to jam the jaws together - the term 'Crank' is the system that applies to the way the strap works over a roller, folds back on itself to do up. It's a physics thing!

To be able to relax the jaw the horse has to be able to drop its bottom jaw so that the teeth are apart. Consider how you would feel if you had to run with your top and bottom teeth jammed against each other - uncomfortable.
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Absolutely my point! However the majority of cavesson/flash combinations are so poorly designed that the flash drags the cavesson down over time causing it become tight in that manner. To "correct" this the noseband gets done up tighter and tighter . . . both cases have the same, in my mind unwanted and unkind, effect on the horse.
 
I would not jump in a standing martingale since the horse cannot really stretch his head and neck if he gets into trouble. I have a running martingale, but 95% of the time it isn't doing anything as it only comes into play if he tries to giraffe and/ or bolt. It is not actually in use over a jump. As to the comment about snaffles and minimalist boots etc - I think it's best to protect your horse as needed, and mine is certainly too strong in a snaffle as I am very small and he's a strong boy who's still young and unbalanced.
 
dieseldog said:
I love the standing martingale rants - they are all so full of ignorance! :D
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Surely though, it is better for people NOT to use a piece of equipment in ignorance than use one?

If people think standing martingales strap down a horses head and therefore avoid using them, I don't see why you are bothered.

It is people who think they strap down a horses head, therefore use them that cause problems...

As for this debate, I don't have enough experience to comment ;)
 
E_Lister said:
Surely though, it is better for people NOT to use a piece of equipment in ignorance than use one?

If people think standing martingales strap down a horses head and therefore avoid using them, I don't see why you are bothered.

It is people who think they strap down a horses head, therefore use them that cause problems...

As for this debate, I don't have enough experience to comment ;)
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Fair point, but they shouldn't judge people who do know how to use them!
 
So what is correctly fitted for a standing martingale then, and what is its real purpose?

I wouldn't like to jump in one, but I freely admit I don't know the ins and outs of this piece of equipment. I haven't so far *touch wood* ever had a horse I have felt it was necessary to use a martingale on, although I have ridden a couple who do. The RS I went to as a child used to put running ones on their ponies as a matter of course, but i rather suspect that was for a grab strap for those people who felt they didn't need a neck strap, but in the instructor's opinion did ;) They were all fitted so loosely as to never come into play, apart from one or two who were presumably deemed in need of one.
 
Correct fit for standing martingale: Attach to noseband and girth, adjust neckstrap to fit four fingers in, with horse's head in correct position martingale strap should then just reach up to horse's gullet.

It's real purpose is to prevent the horse lifting it's head above the angle of control and to prevent it throwing it's head and catching the rider in the face.

If you fit one correctly you'll probably be surprised at just how much movement is available to the horse.
 
A correct fit is hard to get when the martingale is attached to a breastplate.

When you use a true standing martingale - has a strap from girth to noseband and one around the neck there is quite a degree of freedom as the neckstrap has a hand span between horse & martingale whereas the type fitted to a breast plate is held tight to the chest.
 
I suppose i would rather see someone jumping in a correctly fitted standing martingale instead of draw reins. I see too many people, pros and not, jumping in draw reins. I dont think they give enough room for the horse to stretch over a fence, wheras as long as the standing martingale does, i dont have a problem with it if it stops the rider being knocked out by the horse.

But at the end of the day, a rider who keeps their hands down, and doesnt pull on the horse's mouth and causes him to lift his head, shouldnt need a martingale at all. Horses generally only lift their heads if pulled on in the first place.
 
Jennyharvey said:
But at the end of the day, a rider who keeps their hands down, and doesnt pull on the horse's mouth and causes him to lift his head, shouldnt need a martingale at all. Horses generally only lift their heads if pulled on in the first place.
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LMAO! Try explaining that to my horse.... I dont pull on him, its excitement that makes him get all head strong....
 
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