Jumping position Eventers v Show Jumpers - folding

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flyingfeet

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OK I had an interesting lesson at the weekend very much from eventing prospective

They said I was folding too much over jumps, now I have been working on this as I did have a habit of not folding and just letting the reins get longer. I'd been quite pleased with progress (and not pivoting from the knee)

Now is the eventers seat just to stay in balance and not to fold too much? as I guess over XC fences folding could get you in a mess especially on drops...

Does too much fold interfere with the horses jump? Flicking through the H&H whether a 1.50m or 1m most riders do fold show jumping.
 
it is a fairly new style imho, this 'not folding' thing... other than the old fashioned 'hunting seat' of course. when watching the Badders 82 vid it was noticeable that most of the riders, including the very stylish ones, Toddy etc, folded a lot in the air. (actually, must watch him at the Olympics last year and see if he has changed his style much.) i know i fold too much (show-jumped first, have never gotten out of the habit) but manage not to down drops etc. have been told that with certain scooty horses (such as my mare) my shoulders going forward is like hitting the accelerator, she then tries to rush to catch up with me on landing, if that makes sense. but... i do not think it generally interferes with the horse's jump, if anything it ensures that you are going with the horse in midair and not bracing against it, using the reins for balance etc. sorry, i know that's a bit contradictory.
some of the eventers fold during sj and don't fold xc, which i think is well impressive!
 
StaceyTanglewood - looking at your middle sig pic, that is extreme folding and putting weight on the neck. So at what height should that technique kick in and does it help the horse to jump??
 
I think riders should just do whatever comes naturally TBH. It often depends on the type of horse etc. as personally I would ride a young horse or a "stoppper" far more defensively and probably naturally sit up more over a fence just in case something went wrong last minute. Ive been told once before that I fold too much over a SJ fence but when I was conscious of it I started to muck up in other areas of my riding so I just do whatever.
 
eventers showjumping and eventers xc position are imo 2 different things LOL , eventers showjumping is to wait for the shoulders to come off the ground and rather than actually fold as such, meet the horse coming up!! XC now, i feel if you have your lower leg secured then your chances of sitting that less than perfect jump/stride will improve greatly. You can either 'Hail a cab', or at least be slightly behind the movement if needed. The main aim for me is to keep your center of balance/gravity within your horses and not to ofset them!!!!
 
I too have been told I tip too much, but then others have contradicted this - on this I have based my decision that it's dependant on the individual.

Although I would still like to be able not to fold as much! But imo a secure leg is far more important for eventing (I don't have that either - oh dear!)
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I have opposite problem rarely fold at all, comes from having a bit of a stopper, is fine at the lower heights and feels ok over the bigger stuff but have just seen a video -arggh! it picks up stuff the stills never have, I have a bit of a tendency to stand up rather than fold and lift my hands then push them forward

Lessons required!!
 
i do not fold too much for either SJ or XC but i am slightly more upright XC. it is very natural to me as i have always had horses with very flamboyant back ends and also a few that buck on landing.
it has never affected my horses shape over a fence (including being placed at JAS and WH classes)
evented up to Novice like that and never had a problem with catching the horse or anything and as long as you release the reins properly should be fine.
 
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I'm looking forward to TarrSteps' answer to this question, should be very enlightening.

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Oh god, no pressure . . .
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I'll have to have my dinner first.
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Apparently (when I'm nervous) I fold too much and instructor says that by throwing (*ahem*) myself up A's neck, I'm lightening his back end which is bad as he needs the weight to propel himself properly up and over... I'm not sure if that is actually correct, but it's the only time he has fences down (usually fores)
 
I think I agree with what you say CotswoldSJ.

Showjumpers legs seem to slip right up and they fold more, wheras eventers have a ...less extreme position?? I think!!
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm looking forward to TarrSteps' answer to this question, should be very enlightening.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh god, no pressure . . .
wink.gif


I'll have to have my dinner first.
smile.gif


[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon woman, eat quicker, we are waiting....
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Kerilli looking at pics of you jumping, I wouldnt say you were an extreme folder as your weight is always back, so you dont throw yourself up the horses neck like some do, if that makes sense?!

In answer to OP, I dont think its the folding that causes the problem, its where on the horse you fold
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SO if you are ahead of the movement and fold up the horses neck, that wll make jumping more difficult for the horse and make you less secure, however, if you are stayling the the middle of the horse with your leg in a secure position, so you are not up you horses front end, I dont think "folding" is an issue...
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Hmmmm. Think I'm a sitter-upper, though I admit I could (and should) give more with my hands. Suspect I have ridden more than my fair share of stoppers and peckers in my time though.

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XCHexhamJune2006.jpg


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The last is a little too defensive though I don't entirely trust the horse when you can't see the landing side.
 
Yep Gamebird, I'm with you on the "ridden too many stoppers in my time". However, a horse that makes a really good shape will encourage you to fold (see IceStationZebra's post cheering me up, of me on Jemima), whereas a less technically correct horse won't (see any of my photos of Hector or HH).
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If, and that's a huge "if", I was jumping massive fences from a deep spot on a horse with a good technique (ok, we've gone into the realms of fantasy now
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), I'd fold more. However, in the meantime while I'm riding cheeky monkeys over middling fences (xc and sj) I'll stick with my less-folding defensive position if it's all the same to you.
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QR.
I've been teaching the 'less fold position' for some time now, only I'm not a famous name, so I don't get quoted !!
I was teaching one night & someone said to me 'Oh you must have been at the Matt Ryan Clinic' to which I replied that I hadn't been. 'Oh but you're saying the same as he did' they said. 'Glad to know he's doing it right then!!' was my response.
 
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